Go to a Nissan dealer and look at 5 different Titans. On each truck check the following items:
1) front door seals mounted on the cab. Look for folds / wrinkles
2) gap between outer aft ends of bumper cover and fender, left and right sides. Varies side to side and truck to truck.
3) forward end of sealant which covers the roof splice on the RH and LH sides (in the channels). Width and taper varies on the forward ends.
Good luck finding two alike. Whan a design has not changed since 2004 and there is still this much variability from side to side and truck to truck, I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
Never heard of tolerances and specs I see. When you find any of those *out of spec* (Do you even know what the spec is?) let us know.
As if that has *anything* to do with being built in MS anyway. Go climb back into your prejudice cave.
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Uh, I thought this thread had to deal with the Titan Diesel. Not about who builds what and where the hell it's built. Could we please keep this thread about the diesel and the development of the diesel only?
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Mississippi just happens to be where they're built. Just what are the specs for having folds or wrinkles in door seals? Personal attacks are always a good way to deflect the stated issues. Then again, maybe the consumer just needs to have lower expectations.
edit: Ya, got off track a little bit, just wondering if Dodge would take over build responsibility (not that it would be any better) with the rumored partnership. Like I said, draw your own conclusions.
Last edited by Riverratt : 01-24-2008 at 11:47 AM.
I'm still going to proceed my "hide and watch" philosophy regarding a diesel in one of our trucks. At least until I hear a press release from Nissan corporate. I'd love to see it happen, and that's the only reason I'd trade my Titan up at this point. 8k rebates aside.
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Sorry, you're the one that brought up those "problems." I was simply stating that they're not problems if they're within spec and don't cause any functional issues such as leaks, etc.
There will be variations in builds even when done by robots, such as VW uses in Germany.
You can't turn this around on me. Nice try, though.
I would like to see a diesel in the Titan if it would not take 100K miles to recoup (thru better MPG):
a) higher initial cost
b) higher mainenance costs
c) higher fuel/gallon costs
Also, will the newer emissions compliant diesel engines be reliable?
A word on power:
The current 1/2 ton truck tow ratings are not limited by the gasoline engines. If you want to tow more, you should get a 3/4 ton truck (where diesels are currently available).
Last edited by Riverratt : 01-24-2008 at 12:26 PM.
I would like to see a diesel in the Titan if it would not take 100K miles to recoup (thru better MPG):
a) higher initial cost
b) higher mainenance costs
c) higher fuel/gallon costs
Also, will the newer emissions compliant diesel engines be reliable?
A word on power:
The current 1/2 ton truck tow ratings are not limited by the gasoline engines. If you want to tow more, you should get a 3/4 ton truck (where diesels are currently available).
A number of those, including higher initial cost, are recouped partially when the truck is sold; The diesels have a higher resale value.
The fuel costing more per gallon is offset by the increased MPG. Diesel would have to be deep into $4+/gal before there are no monetary gains to be made over a less-efficient gasoline engine.
$3.07/gal for 87 @ 15mpg comes out to $0.205/mile.
$3.47/gal for diesel @ 20mpg comes out to $0.174/mile.
To reach the same cost per mile as gasoline diesel would have to be at $4.10/gal or roughly 34% more per gallon than gasoline. As gasoline goes up in price, the equivalent cost of diesel would also rise. $3.50/gal for 87 would mean diesel at $4.69/gal.
Maintenance costs for diesel trucks isn't as cut and dried either. Diesels have no spark plugs, they have longer oil drain intervals, the downside is they do require more oil per change, fuel filters need to be replaced every other oil change or so (12k-15k miles)...
If you drive 20,000 miles per year (You have to tow a lot and often to really, truly justify a diesel truck so that you reap the benefits) that's about $600/yr saved in fuel costs alone. Over 5 years, that's $3500. If the diesel option costs an additional $6500 and you get at least half that back when the vehicle is sold, you've made $250 over 5 years/100k miles.
Let's face it, if you don't plan on keeping your truck for 100k miles and have no true NEED for a diesel then there is no monetary reason to buy one. Most people that buy diesels put well over 100,000 miles on them in a very short amount of time where it would be stupid NOT to buy a diesel truck.
13MPG @ $2.60 per gallon = $20,000 per 100K miles
20MPG @ $3.10 per gallon = $15,500 per 100K miles
Diesel MPG savings = $4500.00 per 100K miles or $675.00 per year for 6.67 years.
Hard to justify in a 1/2 ton truck for the average guy.
True. Then again, it depends on the diesel and the added cost. Looking at it from a towing/capacity and mileage perspective, I see a smaller 6cyl diesel being a good fit or possibly something like the Cummins 4BT 3.9L 4cyl turbo. That would mean less up-front cost and even better fuel economy as there is no need for the same size I6 as in the Ram, unless the diesel comes packaged with a 3/4-ton Titan.
A while back Ford was throwing the idea around of putting a V6 version of the 6.0 PSD into the F-150.
13MPG @ $2.60 per gallon = $20,000 per 100K miles
20MPG @ $3.10 per gallon = $15,500 per 100K miles
Diesel MPG savings = $4500.00 per 100K miles or $675.00 per year for 6.67 years.
Hard to justify in a 1/2 ton truck for the average guy.
By the time Nissan actually rolled this truck out I would imagine it would be 2010 or later and there are bills out there that require 35mpg. So your savings would be significantly higher. The EPA is really coming down hard on diesels. California is ruining everything.
Uh oh!
Just filled up at local gas station in St Louis.
Regular = 2.79/gal,
Diesel = 3.39/gal
A better thread may be "why would anyone want a diesel in a 1/2 ton truck". Don't get me wrong, I hope there is an economically justifiable way to drive a 1/2 ton truck with 9K plus towing capacity and save on fuel expenses. I just don't see diesel as the answer (I hope I'm wrong).
Now that I think about it, why would the auto industry care what the fuel costs are. Since diesel has more BTU per gallon this is the obvious choice on meeting MPG requirements.
Last edited by Riverratt : 01-24-2008 at 02:27 PM.
Uh oh!
Just filled up at local gas station in St Louis.
Regular = 2.79/gal,
Diesel = 3.39/gal
A better thread may be "why would anyone want a diesel in a 1/2 ton truck". Don't get me wrong, I hope there is an economically justifiable way to drive a 1/2 ton truck with 9K plus towing capacity and save on fuel expenses. I just don't see diesel as the answer (I hope I'm wrong).
Now that I think about it, why would the auto industry care what the fuel costs are. Since diesel has more BTU per gallon this is the obvious choice on meeting MPG requirements.
You're right! We should all right letters to Nissan, Toyota, Ford, Chevy telling them how stupid it is to put diesels in their 1/2 tons. What a waste of time, lol.
I'm just trying to figure out the motivation for auto manufacturers going to diesel engines. The only thing I can come up with is to meet government MPG requirements. I also find it interesting how people clamor for diesel engines on virtually all truck message boards without good reason. Biodiesel could change the whole dynamic. Just trying to engage in a reasonable debate.
01-24-2008, 11:30 AM
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