For hunters only - Page 4

**nytitan1** · 12-18-2005, 03:24 PM

guess this just all turned into name calling lets see i have been called a jackass and whatever else , just had a different point of view to discuss guess i will just go back to talking about my great truck and leave everything else alone seem to be in the minority on this one.

*Johnny Nitro* · 12-18-2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nytitan1

guess this just all turned into name calling lets see i have been called a jackass and whatever else , just had a different point of view to discuss guess i will just go back to talking about my great truck and leave everything else alone seem to be in the minority on this one.

Except you made comments about the size of hunters' genitals, their heritage, as well as their dogs' heritage when asked to provide facts. Not exactly a "different point of view."

tnbowhunter · 12-18-2005, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Roller

But then again my post are going up!

Yeah and even with my "backwoods mentality" I can see that your still an idiot.

As I said earlier, it's no use arguing with the likes of you, we as hunters could provide tons of evidence supporting hunting and it's benefits. But your mind is already made up so there is no use discussing it.

But the fact remains, wildlife needs to be managed by professionals who know what they are talking about and not by people with a bleeding heart mentality.

It's a fact that no wildlife species has been put on the endangered list or threatened by regulated legal hunting, no matter what the method is. In fact, thanks to sound wildlife practices our wildlife is thriving.

If it's legal, and somone enjoys it what business is it of yours to tell them what to do?

Say what you may, I don't believe a word about your wilderness experiences. I still think your wet behind the ears and couldn't survive a night out in the cold by yourself.

4Roller · 12-18-2005, 03:49 PM

I dont think we are as far apart on this but two are jumping to conclusion on my politics ,opinions and even my state of mind. Hunters are definetly needed to provide the big bucks to protect the lands from development and fund staffing to enforce laws on legal hunting.
Food for thought...why cant big cats be trapped and fixed in protected areas to slow down population growth? I know it is not as much fun as treeing one with a pack of dogs and shooting it but I digress.
BTW TN you started the name calling so there!
In all seriousness thanks for the great debate and TN your truck looks great hope to see PRG soon and get mine lifted with new shoes!

4Roller · 12-18-2005, 03:57 PM

TN you are probabely right but can you at least admit you were wrong or at least a little surprised about this California Kids experiences?

tnbowhunter · 12-18-2005, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Roller

Food for thought...why cant big cats be trapped and fixed in protected areas to slow down population growth? I know it is not as much fun as treeing one with a pack of dogs and shooting it but I digress.
BTW TN you started the name calling so there!

For one reason, no one want's them, lol.

But the real reason is the same as our Whitetail Deer population, they are at what is called "carrying capacity." Meaning that they have already reached the point where if their numbers were to increase they would start starving theirselves out of house and home so to speak.

I'm no expert on the big cats by any means, but I do know that a mature Mountain lion requires miles of territory to call his home.

BTW, I am a "red neck, Hillbilly, and a hick." and darned proud of it.

I wasn't born that way I just decided to live this way.

Cheers to you as well, one day we might even see eye to eye.

tnbowhunter · 12-18-2005, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Roller

TN you are probabely right but can you at least admit you were wrong or at least a little surprised about this California Kids experiences?

I did get the California part right, haha.

**nytitan1** · 12-18-2005, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Nitro

Except you made comments about the size of hunters' genitals, their heritage, as well as their dogs' heritage when asked to provide facts. Not exactly a "different point of view."

what the hell are you talking about bro look back at my posts before you type the only thing i did was say didnt like this type of hunting nothing derogatory at all.

skyhammer · 12-18-2005, 04:13 PM

Most of the older members such as Bowhunter already know my situation, but I will repeat it for the benefit of the newer members.
I have a 4000 acre ranch in Northern California. Since California outlawed Mountain Lion hunting (about 10 years ago), there are no more sheep ranches. The Lion pop. has exploded. There are hardly any deer left. Since the deer pop. has decreased, the lions are now hunting pets and people in the rural areas.
Because the State has outlawed the taking of most predators our working ranch (over 100 years) is finished. Lions usually don't take cattle, but with the pop. explosion the lions are risking injury to take the cattle.
If I want to get rid of a lion I have to have a government hunter do it. The paper work is a nightmare, as you have to have several different govt. agencies sign off. In other words I am SOL.
The end result is that many ranches have been sold and subdivided, which takes more land out of the lions habitat. So instead of helping the lions, the law, in the long run will result more conflict between humans and lions.
Feel good laws don't help the lions or the people.
When it comes to killing predators the last thing I want to do is to give the predator a "sporting chance". I want to dispatch the predator that is threatening my livelihood the quickest easiest way possible.

Armada · 12-18-2005, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Roller

Well said Armada but I am using facts. * * * * You brought up a great point that over hunting of prey to generate money for the state has ultimatley led to the neccesity to cull the predators but what if we just managed the prey better so ther is enough to go around?

Whoa there. I did not state or suggest that prey is being overhunted. Where did you find that "fact"?

We are losing the prey to habitat loss and urban/suburban encroachment. And in some instances, as here in Mississippi, with our deer herd, the deer are now even in the urban neighborhoods. We are now extending the hunting seasons and offering wider variety of hunting options (primitive weapons have now been extended to hammered single shot smokeless powder rifles firing very old cartridges), hoping to bring the population back into manageable numbers. We have over 1.5 million whitetail deer, second only to Texas.

Exactly where is this overhunting occurring? Facts please.

And if you really meant "purebred" you should have so said. Purebred dogs are no more "inbred" than a child born to people of the same ethnic background. Are they?

smoothTitan · 12-18-2005, 07:17 PM

4roller probably cried when he killed his first moose. this hunting thing brings up bad memorys.

4Roller · 12-19-2005, 06:25 AM

If you count marrying your cousin. There is positively some inbreeding with champion dogs line. The breeders try to control it or minimize it because of the congenital defects that have arisen over the years. It may not happen as much now but you still hear about certain breeds having this or that problems.
Skyhammer- I am sorry to hear about your situation. Why are there not enough deer? Too many lions or is there not enough deer for hunting season as well?
Smooth- real mature is that really all you have to add to this 50+ thread discussion.

MO Titan · 12-19-2005, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Roller

If you count marrying your cousin. There is positively some inbreeding with champion dogs line. The breeders try to control it or minimize it because of the congenital defects that have arisen over the years. It may not happen as much now but you still hear about certain breeds having this or that problems.
Skyhammer- I am sorry to hear about your situation. Why are there not enough deer? Too many lions or is there not enough deer for hunting season as well?
Smooth- real mature is that really all you have to add to this 50+ thread discussion.

You are correct about most purebred lines of dogs, but that is not why you said it and you know that. So quit trying to talk your way out of it now.

Oh and your big idea about trapping the lions, you have already provided the reasons that won't work. You said yourself that they have 100 mile radius, so I am sure that they know where the reserves end huh. I guess you would like to see reserves with fences? I am sure the other animals there like maybe wolves would appreciate the preditory competition. Maybe then we will need hunts for wolves because they are starving, but that's OK, you saved your lions you've done your job and you have forgotten all about it. I actually don't like hunting for just sport either, however it still provides a service and responsible game management. Besides, the damn animal is shot, I doubt is gives a flying F__K if you ate him/her or not!

I am sure, in fact, I will guarantee that bigger and better minds than you (and me) came up with the system that we have now. So if you are as educated as you say your are, admit that you do not have as much experience in this arena as the game management officials and biologists that came up with this system. Remember, being educated also means knowing that you don't know everything!

tnbowhunter · 12-19-2005, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Roller

Skyhammer- I am sorry to hear about your situation. Why are there not enough deer? Too many lions or is there not enough deer for hunting season as well?

I'm sure that Skyhammer will concur, and he has already stated. When California banned Mountain lion hunting the lion population exploded. When I say exploded that dosen't mean that there are lions literally crawling over each other. You hit the nail on the head on a previous post about lions having a 100 mile range. Because of their nature they require a large range.

Anyway, it is a fact that lions need a lot of territory, and they are very good hunters. They [lions] have exceeded their carrying capacity and have decimated the mule deer population. Since they no longer have enough deer to support theirselves they are now killing sheep and cattle, and of course anything else, read cats, dogs, etc.

As I said in a previous post, regulated sport hunting has never made a wildlife species extinct or even threatened.

To answer your question of "why are there not enough deer?" Because the Lions ate them.

Second question "Too many lions or is there not enough deer for hunting season as well? Because lions no longer have enough range and there is no longer any sport hunting to keep their numbers in check, no longer are there enough deer for the lions or the hunters.

One more thing, when the lions completly eliminate their food supply they will be forced to expand their range, even if it means moving into the suburbs.

skyhammer · 12-19-2005, 07:10 AM

The deer population has dwindled because of the explosion of the predator population. Mainly lions,bears and coyotes. Hunting has had zero effect on the deer population. It has been more than 20 years since anyone has been allowed to hunt on our ranch. Also, our ranch borders the 40,000 Redwood State park, which gives additional protection to all critters.
We used to be be able to keep the predator and varmint population under control. Now, with the "feel Good" legislation from Sacramento, most ranches have been put out of business.