Sept. 11 Mastermind, 4 Other Suspects to Face Trial in N.Y.

rholland · 11-13-2009, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Sept. 11 Mastermind, 4 Other Suspects to Face Trial in N.Y.
URGENT: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other Guantanamo Bay detainees will be sent to New York to face trial in a civilian federal court, U.S. official says

They should be able to recruit a whole bunch of Jihadist from our prison system

Bootzon · 11-13-2009, 08:47 AM

This is total insanity.

If these guys are tried under civilian justice system it is a misapplication of justice. The civilian justice system is not intended to address the issues involved with enemies of the state.

The civilian justice system guarantees a jury of your piers. All it takes is one member of the jury to avoid a conviction. Even if these guys are convicted, and there is not a muslim on the jury, precident shows it stands a good chance to be overturned in the future on the basis of a tainted jury. Years from now, perhaps even a different case, could be appealed on this basis and if the appeal is sucessfull, all the convictions of muslim terrorists could be thrown out en mass.

If a muslim is allowed on the jury it will be very likely that there will never be a conviction. Even if a non - radicallized "moderate" muslim is selected for the jury, pressure from radical elements of islam will find that juror and apply whatever pressure it takes to insure that there is not a conviction.

Somebody explain to me what legal sense this makes bringing them to this country to try in a civilian justice system?

We are being played for fools.

I invite you all to stand with the victim's families and friends of the 9/11 attack and add your name to a letter being sent to the administration protesting this move. Please go to FDNY NEWS - FDNY LIVE HOME - FDNY Officially Licensed Merchandise - The FDNY Online Fire Store or click this link>

FDNY NEWS - FDNY LIVE HOME - FDNY Officially Licensed Merchandise - The FDNY Online Fire Store

Don't wait. Do it now before they are moved.

God Bless all the victim's family and friends. I stand with you in disgust of this decision and pray for a reversal of policy.

This country is under ideological attack and patriotic citizens everywhere need to begin making a stand for what we believe. In the words of 9/11 victim and hero Todd Beamer, " Let's Roll".

SpiritOne · 11-13-2009, 08:50 AM

Why shouldn't we try them, convict them and execute them according to our laws?

We are supposed to be the model of justice in the world. So lets be the model. We did something similar to Nazi war criminals.

rholland · 11-13-2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritOne

Why shouldn't we try them, convict them and execute them according to our laws?

We are supposed to be the model of justice in the world. So lets be the model. We did something similar to Nazi war criminals.

Quote:

The Nuremberg trials were a series of trials, or tribunals, most notable for the prosecution of prominent members of the political, military, and economic leadership of Nazi Germany after its defeat in World War II. The trials were held in the city of Nuremberg, Germany, from 1945 to 1946, at the Palace of Justice. The first and best known of these trials was the Trial of the Major War Criminals before the International Military Tribunal (IMT), which tried 22 of the most important captured leaders of Nazi Germany. It was held from November 21, 1945 to October 1, 1946. The second set of trials of lesser war criminals was conducted under Control Council Law No. 10 at the US Nuremberg Military Tribunals (NMT); among them included the Doctors' Trial and the Judges' Trial. This article primarily deals with the IMT; see the Subsequent Nuremberg Trials for details on those trials.

I do not believe that any Nazi war criminals were tried by civilian courts here or anywhere else.

Bootzon · 11-13-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritOne

Why shouldn't we try them, convict them and execute them according to our laws?

We are supposed to be the model of justice in the world. So lets be the model. We did something similar to Nazi war criminals.

What are you refering to?

What about the Nuremburg trials?

Nuremberg Trials back in focus | Radio Netherlands Worldwide

**helomech** · 11-13-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritOne

Why shouldn't we try them, convict them and execute them according to our laws?

We are supposed to be the model of justice in the world. So lets be the model. We did something similar to Nazi war criminals.

Because he is not a U.S. citizen, and wasn't even on U.S. soil. He is not protected by our constitution.

He is going to walk, and you will be able to thank your commander in chief bobo, the clown for it. And don't forget you voted for him.

37L1 · 11-13-2009, 10:47 AM

The bad news is that this civil trial in NYC will probably hurt this country. Can you imagine Defense discovery and those things that should be kept secret being made public?

These people are enemy combatants who have declared war on our country. They should be tried in a military court.

Now it will be a publicity gold mine for all Jihadists.

Why not just give them a prime time TV slot and let them proselytize to the world?

This will be another bad move for Eric Holder and the Obama Administration.

The good news is they just need to keep going further out on that limb.

bestatchess · 11-13-2009, 11:57 AM

It might be difficult to prosecute if you apply civilian criminal law. Suspect is captured and immediately asks for his lawyer. Instead of getting his lawyer, you put him in a military prison and torture him extensively for a few years. Then you decide you want to try him in a civilian court. Probably are going to need 100% independent evidence, if the judge lets you go forward at all. Defense move #1, try to change venue out of NY.

**helomech** · 11-13-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bestatchess

It might be difficult to prosecute if you apply civilian criminal law. Suspect is captured and immediately asks for his lawyer. Instead of getting his lawyer, you put him in a military prison and torture him extensively for a few years. Then you decide you want to try him in a civilian court. Probably are going to need 100% independent evidence, if the judge lets you go forward at all. Defense move #1, try to change venue out of NY.

I agree, and I bet he was not read his rights when he was captured. Then he did not get a speedy trial, then he was (I don't want to use this word because I don't think it was torture) tortured. This guy is getting off, and it is bobo's fault.

Not to mention he is going to be able to confront his accusers, so that means troops in the field will have to come in, guards in Guantanamo, the guys who water boarded him, the list goes on and on. And if you can't get one of these guys then their testimony can't be used.

SpiritOne · 11-13-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helomech

Because he is not a U.S. citizen, and wasn't even on U.S. soil. He is not protected by our constitution.

He is going to walk, and you will be able to thank your commander in chief bobo, the clown for it. And don't forget you voted for him.

IF they walk, I will stop everything, and join you in secession. But your a dam fool if you think they will be not guilty.

Bhudda454 · 11-13-2009, 01:28 PM

While they will not walk, they will not get anything more than a decade or so each then be kicked out of the country. Or Left here on probation and start up again within our own borders with all the new friends they made in the pen.

This is so far beyond stupid. Our Civilian Criminal Justice System has no real means of dealing with this type of situation. Why you ask? Because when it was designed they called an Effin Spade a Spade... These are militant terrorist intent on nothing but the end all destruction of anything not within thier own personal view of Sharia Law. We kill thousands of dogs each year just for being a certain "aggressive" breed. They do a whole heck of a lot less than any single one of these TERRORIST did.

Oh, and SpiritOne, welcome to the revolution .............

37L1 · 11-13-2009, 02:18 PM

I don't get it. 5 to under go a civil trial in NYC for the Trade Center and some go in front of a military tribunal for the USS Cole bombing.

Arizona GOP Sen. John McCain, however, contended that the decision to hold a civilian trial for some suspected terrorists and a military trial for others sent "a mixed message about America's resolve in the fight against terrorism."
"If military tribunals are suitable for the terrorists who attacked our sailors aboard the USS Cole ... then military tribunals are certainly the right venue to try the Al-Qaeda terrorists, including Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who murdered thousands of innocent civilians on September 11, 2001," he said.

OK, so are we saying if you attack a military target you get a military tribunal but you get civil court for non-military targets?

Not good news for civilian targets. . . .

bestatchess · 11-13-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37L1

Not good news for civilian targets. . . .

I dunno if the military targets are any better off as the military target convicts (convicted of killing 17 sailors on the USS Cole) go to a Muslim jail where they somehow manage to "escape". When recaptured, in spite of a death sentence, they merely need to promise to be a good boy to obtain release.

Jamal Mohammad Ahmad Al Badawi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yemen's continued existence in light of U.S. Navy weapons technology remains a mystery.

CBBob · 11-13-2009, 02:40 PM

These guys will never be convicted in an American court, nor should they.
These are not uniformed combatants, and in previous wars were shot.
There is no Geneva Convention for persons fighting without being in uniform.

Quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) - Hauling the professed 9/11 mastermind and four alleged henchmen to a New York courthouse is a risky proposition for President Barack Obama. The move will bar evidence obtained under duress and complicate a case where anything short of slamdunk convictions will empower the president's critics.

Attorney General Eric Holder announced the decision Friday to bring Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four others detained at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to trial at a lower Manhattan courthouse hard by the site of the World Trade Center, whose twin towers they will be charged with destroying.

The case is likely to force the civilian federal court to confront a host of difficult issues, including rough treatment of detainees, sensitive intelligence gathering and the potential spectacle of defiant terrorists disrupting proceedings. U.S. civilian courts prohibit evidence obtained through coercion, and a number of detainees were questioned using harsh methods some call torture.

37L1 · 11-13-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bestatchess

I dunno if the military targets are any better off as the military target convicts (convicted of killing 17 sailors on the USS Cole) go to a Muslim jail where they somehow manage to "escape". When recaptured, in spite of a death sentence, they merely need to promise to be a good boy to obtain release.

Jamal Mohammad Ahmad Al Badawi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yemen's continued existence in light of U.S. Navy weapons technology remains a mystery.

I guess you can rely upon your friends the Saudis. . .

Saudis bomb Yemen rebels across border - Saudi Arabia- msnbc.com