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#31 (permalink) Old 09-01-2010, 05:12 PM
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Re: Two Arrested in Possible Terror 'Dry Run' After Chicago-to-Amsterdam Flight

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Originally Posted by TexUs View Post
Absolutely right but the Constitution does contain ideals based on a Creator.
Yes it does contain those ideals and although it does not expressly say creator within the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence most certainly does and considering it was the first Law of the Land which the Constitution is in fact based upon, that's good enough for me.

Some folks would of course like to argue semantics or the lack of them in this case, quack, but there is no getting around the fact that a bunch of religious, Conservative Constitutionalists founded this country and the same sorts of individuals are fixing to restore it while the rest of the LiberServatiives argue over whether or not a foreign civilization has the right to alter or abolish this one...so praise the lord, pass the ammo and **** Sharia Law, this civilization already has laws and the vast majority of citizens feel no need to be Transnationalized, Transgendered or Transformed into something else.

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#32 (permalink) Old 09-01-2010, 05:29 PM
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Re: Two Arrested in Possible Terror 'Dry Run' After Chicago-to-Amsterdam Flight

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Originally Posted by SpiritOne View Post
the Declaration of Independence does not represent any law of the United States. It came before the establishment of our lawful government
Seriously dude, if you believe that that the DOI just got tossed to the side once the Constitution was adopted, you are in far worse shape than I suspected and will require a lot more work, lol.

The moral laws set forth in the Declaration of Independence are what the secular laws of the Constitution are all based upon and to deny that the DOI is not law, a higher law than that of the Constitution is in fact idiocy because were it not for the adoption of, and the very real power of creator granted rights trumping man made law, mere mortals would be allowed to trample the natural, creator granted rights of men.

The Declaration of Independence Part of American Law

Professor John Eidsmoe writes:

"The role of the Declaration of Independence in American law is often misconstrued. Some believe the Declaration is simply a statement of ideas that has no legal force whatsoever today. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Declaration has been repeatedly cited by the U.S. Supreme Court as part of the fundamental law of the United States of America.

"The United States Code Annotated includes the Declaration of Independence under the heading 'The Organic Laws of the United States of America' along with the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution, and the Northwest Ordinance. Enabling acts frequently require states to adhere to the principles of the Declaration; in the Enabling Act of June 16, 1906, Congress authorized Oklahoma Territory to take steps to become a state. Section 3 provides that the Oklahoma Constitution 'shall not be repugnant to the Constitution of the United States and the principles of the Declaration of Independence.' (Christianity and the Constitution, pp. 360-361)

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#33 (permalink) Old 09-01-2010, 06:19 PM
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Re: Two Arrested in Possible Terror 'Dry Run' After Chicago-to-Amsterdam Flight

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Originally Posted by Papa_D View Post
considering it was the first Law of the Land
It was never written as "law of the land", it was written to tell the English King what his crimes against the colonies were and that we weren't going to take his **** anymore. Try reading it sometime, you might learn something . There is no law set forth in the Declaration.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa
which the Constitution is in fact based upon
Yes, but they are separate documents. The Declaration is explained above, the Constitution lays out the powers and responsibilities of the Federal government.


Quote:
Originally Posted by papa
Some folks would of course like to argue semantics
Call it what you will, but there is a difference between the US Code, and US Laws. If there wasn't a difference, there wouldnt be two names and definitions for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by papa
but there is no getting around the fact that a bunch of religious, Conservative Constitutionalists founded this country
This is the stupidest statement I have read today, and considering Texus decided to call Darwin a racist today, thats pretty ****ing amazing. We have gone over this time after time. Grouping all of the founders into one homogeneous being is utterly ridiculous. They were from different backgrounds, with different beliefs, and different ideas. If they all thought the same thing it would not have taken them so long to write the constitution, and there would have been no debate about what should and should not be a right, nor how it was worded. But there was plenty of that.

We also discussed how many of them were in fact Deist and Unitarians who at that time in history rejected the notion of religion, preferring to believe in a god separate from the dogmatic bs that was organized religion.

Trying to put them into a box and define them as conservative just makes me angry. You cannot classify a man who lived in 1775 by our ridiculous political monikers of today. Once again, you try to make your side out to be the only one with any credibility at all. Then you go on to this bs...


Quote:
Originally Posted by papa
while the rest of the LiberServatiives argue over whether or not a foreign civilization has the right to alter or abolish this one
More of this black & white dogmatic bull****. Someone is either with you, or a progressive/libtard/globalist/communist/somethingister blah, blah, blah... Nothing in between. You are turning politics into its own religion. That is dangerous sir. There are people who don't agree with you, who do not have those goals.


Quote:
Originally Posted by papa
Seriously dude, if you believe that that the DOI just got tossed to the side once the Constitution was adopted
lol. Actually, it was.

Having served its original purpose in announcing the independence of the United States, the Declaration was initially neglected following the American Revolution. Early celebrations of Independence Day, like early histories of the Revolution, largely ignored the Declaration. Although the act of declaring independence was considered important, the text announcing that act attracted little attention. The Declaration was rarely mentioned during the debates about the United States Constitution, and its language was not incorporated into that document. George Mason's draft of the Virginia Declaration of Rights was more influential, and its language was echoed in state constitutions and state bills of rights more often than Jefferson's words. "In none of these documents", wrote Pauline Maier, "is there any evidence whatsoever that the Declaration of Independence lived in men's minds as a classic statement of American political principles.


It wasn't until the 1790s with the creation of the first political parties that it saw a revival.


Quote:
Originally Posted by papa
The moral laws set forth in the Declaration of Independence are what the secular laws of the Constitution are all based upon
What the hell are you talking about? there are no laws set forth in Declaration. It is a letter to the King, that details our grievances and our desire to rule ourselves. There are principles upon which to create laws, but no laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa
to deny that the DOI is not law, a higher law than that of the Constitution is in fact is idiocy because were it not for the adoption of, and very real power of creator granted rights trumping man made law, mere mortals would be allowed to trample the natural, creator granted rights of men.

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Those are your "creator granted rights". But that does not make the Declaration a law. Did the framers pull these ideas into the Bill of Rights? Yes. Which makes the idea law, in the form of the Bill of Rights. That my friend is where you "creator granted rights" become the law of the land. Not in the Declaration.

You site the US Code as "organic laws". Yes, the Declaration is part of the US Code, but the US Code itself is a guiding principle for us to create our laws and government.

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#34 (permalink) Old 09-01-2010, 06:53 PM
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Re: Two Arrested in Possible Terror 'Dry Run' After Chicago-to-Amsterdam Flight

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Originally Posted by SpiritOne View Post
What the hell are you talking about? there are no laws set forth in Declaration. It is a letter to the King, that details our grievances and our desire to rule ourselves. There are principles upon which to create laws, but no laws.

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Those are your "creator granted rights". But that does not make the Declaration a law. Did the framers pull these ideas into the Bill of Rights? Yes. Which makes the idea law, in the form of the Bill of Rights. That my friend is where you "creator granted rights" become the law of the land. Not in the Declaration.

You site the US Code as "organic laws". Yes, the Declaration is part of the US Code, but the US Code itself is a guiding principle for us to create our laws and government.
What's the mater, couldn't bare to quote the whole thing, lol.

The organic laws of the United States of America are included in the U.S. Code.[1] These documents include the United States Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, the Northwest Ordinance, and the U.S. Constitution.[2] These documents comprise the very first part of the United States Code, wherein lie the collected statutes of the United States.[3]

Argue semantics with someone else, the Declaration of Independence and Constitution are both part of the very same U.S. Code and maybe you should have printed the entire WIKI quote so as not to judiciously attempt to support a completely bogus argument.

"the US Code itself is a guiding principle for us to create our laws and government" .............WRONG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Code

U.S. Code or U.S.C.) is a compilation and codification of the general and permanent federal law of the United States.

You are wrong and the Declaration of Independence is Law and occupies a place in the U.S. Code of permanent Federal Laws right alongside the Constitution but is in fact a higher law than that of man which is the whole point.

I feel sorry for anyone who is unable to simply recognize and appreciate The Declaration of Independence for what it is and the absolute genius it embodies because come what may, no man may trump nature's law, organic law or the rights we were all born with which are all embodied within the DOI, and regardless of what man chooses to put in the Constitution or anywhere else for that matter, the Natural Law this country was founded upon, and which is in fact in the permanent Federal Law of the United States Of America, is as unamendable as ever and will live on, Revolution after Revolution, provided the citizens don't forget where their rights come from as embodied in the Declaration of Independance....

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#35 (permalink) Old 09-01-2010, 08:07 PM
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Re: Two Arrested in Possible Terror 'Dry Run' After Chicago-to-Amsterdam Flight

DOI discussion here The Declaration of Independence, the most important Law of the Land. if anyone gives a damn and now back to a couple of Muslims deciding just how stupid the TSA and the Federal Government is...


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#36 (permalink) Old 09-02-2010, 07:00 AM
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Re: Two Arrested in Possible Terror 'Dry Run' After Chicago-to-Amsterdam Flight

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Originally Posted by SpiritOne View Post
where?
I think Papa firmly established the position against your nonsense.
You'd have to say the DOI had no bearing on ANY of the law formation here in the US, and you'd have to be an idiot to say that as Papa firmly debunked that.

But as one example, Amendment 15 is staunchly counter to Darwin's theory.
And since you apparently disagree with me that Darwin was a racist, here's a quote, judge for yourself:
Quote:
At some future period not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes...will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest Allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as the baboon, instead of as now between the Negro or Australian and the gorilla
Hmmm, he freaking CLEARLY, as black and white, identifies Whitey as a superior race and Black people as the lowest.

He even goes on to state their inferior intelligence:
Quote:
Their mental characteristics are likewise very distinct; chiefly as it would appear in their emotional, but partly in their intellectual faculties. Everyone who has had the opportunity of comparison must have been struck with the contrast between the taciturn, even morose, aborigines of S. America and the light-hearted, talkative negroes.
One superior to another based solely on race???? That's the freaking definition of RACISM!

Face the facts: Racism was and is necessary for Darwin's theory to hold. You can go look up oodles more quotes from his right-hand men and they'll even state this in more blunt terms than what's quoted here.

Amendment 15 is clearly a spit in his face and his theories, as well as the entire formation of our country that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL. There are rights granted by a CREATOR.

So like I originally said, our very Constitution is based in strict opposition not only to Darwin but in support of Creator-granted rights, whether you like it or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronos1965 View Post
Let me ask you this. IF you are so jaded as to believing that Muslims are so bad, then how can anything they do change your opinion of them? And why then should they spend any time trying to convince someone who can't be convinced otherwise?
They shouldn't. LOL... Only resolution to this, as I've pointed out, is an attack on Islam itself and as long as Islam still stands this will always be an issue.

Last edited by TexUs; 09-02-2010 at 07:06 AM.
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#37 (permalink) Old 09-02-2010, 08:18 AM
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Re: Two Arrested in Possible Terror 'Dry Run' After Chicago-to-Amsterdam Flight

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Originally Posted by TexUs View Post
They shouldn't. LOL... Only resolution to this, as I've pointed out, is an attack on Islam itself and as long as Islam still stands this will always be an issue.
Let's hear it for ignorance!

Can't very well preach defense of the US Constitution when you choose to declare war on a religion or way of life that is legally supported in the United States.

Can't very well support that Christians are so peace loving when your view is to exterminate another religion and you're tying Christianity to the US Constitution.

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#38 (permalink) Old 09-02-2010, 08:29 AM
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Re: Two Arrested in Possible Terror 'Dry Run' After Chicago-to-Amsterdam Flight

Can't we all get along..
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#39 (permalink) Old 09-02-2010, 08:34 AM
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Re: Two Arrested in Possible Terror 'Dry Run' After Chicago-to-Amsterdam Flight

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Originally Posted by Kronos1965 View Post
Let's hear it for ignorance!

Can't very well preach defense of the US Constitution when you choose to declare war on a religion or way of life that is legally supported in the United States.

Can't very well support that Christians are so peace loving when your view is to exterminate another religion and you're tying Christianity to the US Constitution.
Where did I say we declare war on a religion?
Strawman arguments FTL.
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#40 (permalink) Old 09-02-2010, 09:07 AM
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Re: Two Arrested in Possible Terror 'Dry Run' After Chicago-to-Amsterdam Flight

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Originally Posted by daptech View Post
Can't we all get along..
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Apparently not but try convincing a Transnational Federal Government of that simple fact, lol.


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#41 (permalink) Old 09-02-2010, 09:20 AM
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Re: Two Arrested in Possible Terror 'Dry Run' After Chicago-to-Amsterdam Flight

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Originally Posted by TexUs View Post
I think Papa firmly established the position against your nonsense.
You'd have to say the DOI had no bearing on ANY of the law formation here in the US, and you'd have to be an idiot to say that as Papa firmly debunked that.
And then some...here it is again in Super Slomo, lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BRw_ihZRJI

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#42 (permalink) Old 09-02-2010, 01:39 PM
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Re: Two Arrested in Possible Terror 'Dry Run' After Chicago-to-Amsterdam Flight

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Originally Posted by TexUs View Post
Where did I say we declare war on a religion?
Strawman arguments FTL.
Do you recognize your own quote?
Quote:
They shouldn't. LOL... Only resolution to this, as I've pointed out, is an attack on Islam itself and as long as Islam still stands this will always be an issue.

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#43 (permalink) Old 09-02-2010, 01:48 PM
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Re: Two Arrested in Possible Terror 'Dry Run' After Chicago-to-Amsterdam Flight

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Originally Posted by Kronos1965 View Post
Do you recognize your own quote?
Hmmm... Seems like you need to define who [they] is, don't you? Pretty freaking clear I was talking about the Muslims themselves.
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#44 (permalink) Old 09-02-2010, 02:08 PM
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Re: Two Arrested in Possible Terror 'Dry Run' After Chicago-to-Amsterdam Flight

Since Sharia Law is incompatible with our customs, culture, civilization and Constitution, as well as of course the highest law in the land CREATOR GRANTED RIGHTS as expressed in the Declaration of Independence, going to war with Islam itself may be an inevitability, especially considering militant Islam is winning, that is unless they decide to alter a few centuries worth of their particular brand of dogma.

Of course if you are in favor of killing homosexuals, adulterers and Allah knows who the hell else, maybe Sharia Law don't sound to bad to you...

http://www.actforamerica.org/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpHOt...eature=related

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#45 (permalink) Old 09-02-2010, 04:33 PM
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Re: Two Arrested in Possible Terror 'Dry Run' After Chicago-to-Amsterdam Flight

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Originally Posted by Papa_D View Post
Since Sharia Law is incompatible with our customs, culture, civilization and Constitution....................
The ACLU & DOJ are going to take care of it.............
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