What would you do?

TriKKy · 12-22-2004, 05:35 AM

Moral discussion I was having with someone. Wont even post the conversations or stances . . . yet.

Here is the question:

If you move to a new place and you are surrounded by unsecured wireless networks would you tap into them or get your own connection . . . morally and/or legally speaking?

6thsense · 12-22-2004, 05:52 AM

check your other post

TriKKy · 12-22-2004, 06:00 AM

DOH! Not supposed to be 2..hehehe. Deleted it...moved your post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6thsense

have you ever thought that some of those "open" wifi networks are left open for a reason.....beware there is a hacker in every neighborhood...if he's just surfing and doesnt care about being hacked himself, them by all means go for it.....but its not like I would ever do anything like that

TriKKy · 12-22-2004, 06:04 AM

Good point, Ill bring it up. The only response I think I would get is that he would doubt most people are that smart...but it's worth a shot.

logicjunky · 12-22-2004, 06:14 AM

If it's residential sure, if it's a commercial biz no. Remember the honey pot trap...

99% of the hackers out there would not invite people in at all. The prefer to gain notoriety (sp?) for business take downs not raiding their neighbor's porn folder on his hard drive. They don't want the little fish, only the big ones, so the unsecured WI-FI would be some unsuspecting user that just doesn't know any better. Think of it like the penny tray at a store. Give a penny, take a penny...so, I guess if you take the free WI-FI, leave the keys in your Titan for somebody to 'borrow'.

J/K

Somebody famous once said, "It's only stealing if we get caught." Or something to that effect...if you can stand the consequences of getting caught, go for it. If you can't bear the punishment don't attempt it IMHO.

TriKKy · 12-22-2004, 06:25 AM

Well that was my main argument...just because someone left their keys in their car doesn't necessarily mean that you should take it...it's still theft.

Retriever · 12-22-2004, 06:58 AM

I have the same opinion on cable tv. If the cable company is sending a signal into my house, I have every right to use it whether I am paying for it or not. Once that signal is inside your home, it is yours to use. Whether or not there is any legal basis for that assumption, I don't know. I've been waiting for the cable company to bill me for all the free movie channels I get through my "black box" so I can sue them for illegal wire-tapping.

If you are climbing up the utility pole and tapping into the line or paying your neighbor for internet access, that is another story.

BigBlackTruck · 12-22-2004, 07:04 AM

I guess there is somthing to be said for the if you dont secure it its your own fault idea, however morally i do believe it to be wrong. I do share my wifi with my neighbor and we split the bill. perhaps you could investigate into a similar agreement. and yes it is secure.

igotatitan · 12-22-2004, 07:21 AM

You betcha - if it's just other residential WiFi's. I'd stay away from businesses. That said, my wife and I need our own 1.5 megabit DSL for telecommuting, so we've secured our WiFi for obvious reasons.

rarjar · 12-22-2004, 07:26 AM

While it is probably legal to do so, I'm not sure ethically it would be the right thing to do, well at least I wouldn't. My 2 cents worth.

Nuckle · 12-22-2004, 07:40 AM

I would get my own from both a moral and legal standpoint. We do not have a wireless router but a neighbors does. I got on it one time and felt bad about it so I have not done it since.

Nuck

Half Shovel · 12-22-2004, 08:20 AM

Here's my .02. It would sure be tempting, but it IS illegal. I checked, because a neighbor and I considered sharing a wireless connection. Not legal even if both consent, according to my provider.

Ethically, my take is this: Now I'm not going to claim piety by any stretch (I've downloaded a file or 2 in my time), but I will say that every time we steal, the price of those goods goes up for everyone else. It's a tough deal to think through - where is an acceptable line to be drawn?

One thing to consider - you can be caught pretty easily. One can easily monitor packet activity, then IP adresses, then mac addresses. It's all there in a packet. The mac address is the killer. Only your computer has the unique mac address that's on your NIC.

Just food for thought from a network admin.

HS

WazzuCoug · 12-22-2004, 08:20 AM

I steal an internet connection right now, however I recently went next door to my neighbor and told them. It seems most people who dont secure their connections really dont understand the com-puter. I offered to help with any of her pc needs and we seem to have worked out a mutual "truce". In college however I did the same thing and never thought twice about it. I guess maybe thats because I was living off the dollar menu at McDonalds.

ICE17N24 · 12-22-2004, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriKKy

If you move to a new place and you are surrounded by unsecured wireless networks would you tap into them or get your own connection . . . morally and/or legally speaking?

I live in the middle of NO WHERE so this really wouldn't apply to me. BUT, to answer your moral dilemma, I wouldn't feel right doing it. Legally speaking, it probably is theft and I tend to agree with Half Shovel.

Good luck, and just like anything else in this world:
IT'S YOUR (their) CHOICE to do what you (they) want UNTIL the point that you get caught. THEN it's up to the jury and the judge

.

Later

TriKKy · 12-22-2004, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half Shovel

Here's my .02. It would sure be tempting, but it IS illegal. I checked, because a neighbor and I considered sharing a wireless connection. Not legal even if both consent, according to my provider.
HS

I think they were blowing smoke up your butt. There was some law passed (maybe only here but I doubt it) that the cable company cannot tell you how many computers you can have PERIOD. The only requirement is that you don't go nuts on their bandwidth but after that, it is your right to do what you want.

That being said I found an interesting site: http://lists.nycwireless.net/piperma...st/007416.html

Basically it says that it is perfectly legal.

The story is basically that I was arguing this with my friend and I called it stealing and he said it wasn't. This went on forever, back and forth and he actually made some really really good points but I still have my doubts as to if it's right or not.

Even though I argued against it part of me wants to say that if the other person doesn't protect himself it's his problem.