Good Point On War On Terror

Burly · 02-20-2007, 01:13 PM

Thought I would share this email I recieved about the war on terror. Very good points in my opinion. I feel just the same!

"Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001 ?
Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from our nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania ?
Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?
And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated" when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet?
Well, I don't. I don't care at all.
I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.
I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia
I'll care when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi tells the world he is sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.
I'll care when the cowardly so-called "insurgents" in Iraq come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques.
I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide bombs.
I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights.
In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care.
When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college-hazing incident, rest assured that I don't care.
When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank that I don't care.
When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed "special" food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being "mishandled," you can absolutely believe in your heart of hearts that I don't care.
And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled "Koran" and other times "Quran." Well, Jimmy Crack Corn and ---- you guessed it - - I don't care ! ! ! ! !
I add:
--"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan

**nytitan1** · 02-20-2007, 01:22 PM

amen to that it says it all.

hitecredneck · 02-20-2007, 01:31 PM

ubject: FW: A Soldier's Perspective

Worth sharing…

Subject: My view of Iraq

Following the article I sent about President Bush's national address and troop increase, I thought it was a good idea to let you all know what the perspective is over here. I'm tired of hearing the media's skewed version, the politicians squabbling over what they read in a report, and the average ill-informed American ranting about things he knows NOTHING about.

I've been over here a couple of months now, and I've learned more about this country than a year's worth of watching CNN. I've sat in mission briefs with Colonels, talked with village elders, had tea with Sheiks, played with the kids. And I agree with the President. We need more troops and we need to take greater action.

There are 3 major factions here. The Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds. The Shiites are in the majority, but Saddam was a Sunni, so he kept the Shiites in check. Everyone hates the Kurds, who are Christian and in the vast minority. The Kurds received the brunt of Saddam's murderous tyranny. Now that Saddam is gone, the Shiites have taken control of Baghdad. The largely peaceful Sunnis are now the victims of radical Shiite terrorism. So the young Sunni men, who can no longer go to work and support their families, do what all young men would do. They join the Sunni militia and battle the Shiites. And thus the country sits on the brink of civil war.

But this war is between them. They largely do not concern themselves with the U.S. troops. The insurgents who battle the Coalition Forces are from outside the country. And the biggest problem down here isn't the insurgents. Its the politicians. The local politicians. Even though the country is controlled by Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, downtown Baghdad is controlled by radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The Shiites follow al-Sadr and thus the Prime Minister does what al-Sadr says. Think of it as if a warlord controlled New York and blackmailed the President into diplomatic immunity.

When 1st Cav (mainly 2/5 Cav) came here in 2004, they took downtown Baghdad (known as Sadr City) by force. It cost many lives, but after a year, we held an iron grip on the largest insurgent breeding ground in Iraq. The insurgents were afraid of the Horse People, and rightfully so. But when 1st Cav left, al-Sadr influenced the Prime Minister to kick out the Coalition forces from that area of Baghdad. He said the Iraqi military forces could hold the city. But all that happened was al-Sadr regained control of his city, and it is now a heavily guarded fortress. A place where insurgents and terrorists can train and stockpile arms. And we cannot go back in because the Prime Minister won't let us. Our hands are tied.

So where does al-Sadr get his backing? From Iran and Syria. Iran supplies him with money and Syria supplies the terrorists. The insurgents that battle the Coalition Forces are from Syria, Somalia and dozens of other places outside of Iraq. Iraq is literally a terrorist breeding ground. They have terrorist and sniper schools here. Why not? They train by teaching them to attack the military forces here. And they have an endless supply of these training tools. They have factories in Sadr City to build bombs. Both Iran and Syria have openly proclaimed their number one goal in life is to destroy the great Western Devil and the little Western Devil (America and Britain). Iran wants to control Iraq to further this purpose. Al-Sadr will get to "run" the country and live like a king, but in reality Iran will pull the puppet strings. Iran will have access to thousands of radical Shiites who will do whatever al-Sadr tells them to. And Iraq will be used as a breeding ground for terrorism. Terrorism that will be targeted directly at America and Britain. The Iraq Study Group advised we should let Iran and Syria help with rebuilding? Bravo to President Bush for striking that idea down and vowing to keep those two countries out of Iraq.

So how do the Iraqi people feel about everything? Of course they don't want the Americans here. But they would far rather have us here than the Iranians. My platoon visited an average Sunni village on a patrol a few days ago. Their only source of income was to farm, as they could not go to the city to work for fear of violence. Many of the young men had already run off to join the militia for no other reason than to feed their families. They had no school or hospital near them and the community was dying. The village elder's granddaughter was very sick and I was able to treat her. Afterwards he invited me and my Platoon Leader to sit in his house and have tea with him, and we talked about the situation.

The people want peace. The Shiites kill the Sunnis because al-Sadr tells them to do so The Sunnis fight back because they have no choice. They are glad Saddam is dead (Sunni or not), but do not want to replace him with another dictator in a politician's clothes (which is what al-Sadr will become). And they especially don't want Iran in charge. Many innocent Iraqis will die if this happens. These are the words that came out of the elder's mouth:

"We do not want America here, and America does not want to be here. But you cannot leave because the militias control the country. America must use the might of its giant army and sweep through, root out and destroy the militias. Then Iraq can be free and you can leave."

What appears to have happened within our diplomatic community, is that Prime Minister finally realizes that his days are numbered. If al-Sadr remains, he will be kicked to the curb. So hopefully he is about to allow us to reenter Sadr City, root out and destroy the enemy. A dramatic troop increase will allow us to do this. And the Horse People are back and ready to finish what they started over 2 years ago.

If leave now, it will be a failure for democracy. Iran will control Iraq and the end result will be more terrorist attacks on America. The American people don't want soldiers dying over here, but its better than American civilians dying over there. Do NOT forget 9/11. They will do it again. The moment we loosen our grip on the noose, they will do it again. And the only way to root out the evil here is to stop beating around the bush, increase troops and destroy the insurgents once and for all. The Iraqi government cannot do this on their own. The Iraqi security forces are inadequate for this task. We are the only ones who can stop al-Sadr.

SPC "Doc" Shurley

2/5 Cav, 1st CB

Feel free to share this with whomever wants a real soldier's opinion about the war.

Please pass this on.

latenate · 02-20-2007, 03:17 PM

Excellent Post, amen, and thanks for your service...we cannot afford to loose this war, it is shocking how many "educated" people think we should turn the other cheek...we will be attacked again, get ready, the politicians are gonna screw this country...take it easy

garyk211 · 02-20-2007, 03:28 PM

Thank You.

**redneckpapa1996** · 02-20-2007, 04:02 PM

Great post and explanation of what is really going on over there....All the more reason to pull out our boys and warn every american that they have 48 hours to get out...PERIOD !!!!!
Then we let our nuclear subs take out iraq, iran, syria, libya, saudi arabia, afganistan, pakistan, and any other country known to support or harbor terrorist or the likes of such !!!!Once the rest of the world seen that we finally are serious and tired of the crap they would step back and see that we are the greatest/strongest nation once again...They only understand war and violence and have been this way for thousands of years, so bring it to them like they have never seen before...
This country is in serious trouble because we are so soft and sensitive and ignorant to how many people want to kill americans all over the world...If we fought a war like this back in WW1 and WW2 we would not be the USA..God only knows what we would be like...I pray my granchildren live a full happy life in the US...
The media needs to be treated like traitors/murderers when they leak any info about our military activities..PERIOD !!!
If we don`t wake up and stop living a fantasy life, there will be no USA to worry about protecting...
Sorry for the rant, but we need to get serious and take care of this the right way instead of pu$$yfooting
around.....THX...

Remember, the strong survive..That is how we got what we got over the years and through many wars and sacrifices...

gumby · 02-20-2007, 04:23 PM

my answer when forced to make a choice between my family, our way of life, by those who won't or don't recongnize our right to exist.... nukem from orbit its the only way to be sure. I have no qualms about it I sleep well at night. there is nothing fair about life and even less fair about war.
No commander wants a fair fight he wants to win and whatever advantage you can make or take to make it and unfair battle is most desirable

USAF C-5 Flight Engineer reciently Retired

MuskyHunter · 02-20-2007, 04:59 PM

Papa, I feel that way too many times, but we both know that won't work. Turn the table around. Other countries view the US as terrorists as we uproot governments and involve ourselves (in their eyes) in issues that we shouldn't. This is their desire to acquire technologies so in turn they can send over their subs and nuke us all.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely support our efforts. I am outraged at our system, our press, and many of our representatives that should be charged with treason. When I read more and more about Muslim extremists and their philosophies, it just makes me even more angry at the short-sightedness of our leaders as well as the masses. This jihad is a well designed, articulated infiltration of our society and values. It is a long term goal that spans many generations, and is exercised with only one goal in mind.

Conspiracy theory or not, follow the millions upon millions of dollars contributed to major universities from sources such as Saudi Arabia for various middle eastern studies, only to influence and churn out anti American sentiment of our future graduates and potential leaders, only to propagate a war from within, dividing our country and society.

I really wish people in general would take the time to see the big picture here. Instead, we as a society live under false pretense of protection due to our geographic boundaries and the perceived immunity from harm. We go through our days living in denial or ignorance, as we allow headline news to shape our thoughts and actions. Those living in their utopian world who think we can negotiate our way out of religious and value differences with extreme fascists, in spite of the thousand plus years that it has been tried, fail to see that no deal short of our own genocide can be negotiated. We are the infidels and the Koran states that we must die, period.

Or we can tuck our heads in our wings and pull out our troops, hoping that this jihad thing just goes away on it's own. Unfortunately, this is where we are at today.

(Man, after writing this, that red button looks more tempting.)

**Kronos1965** · 02-20-2007, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redneckpapa1996

Great post and explanation of what is really going on over there....All the more reason to pull out our boys and warn every american that they have 48 hours to get out...PERIOD !!!!!
Then we let our nuclear subs take out iraq, iran, syria, libya, saudi arabia, afganistan, pakistan, and any other country known to support or harbor terrorist or the likes of such !!!!Once the rest of the world seen that we finally are serious and tired of the crap they would step back and see that we are the greatest/strongest nation once again...They only understand war and violence and have been this way for thousands of years, so bring it to them like they have never seen before...
This country is in serious trouble because we are so soft and sensitive and ignorant to how many people want to kill americans all over the world...If we fought a war like this back in WW1 and WW2 we would not be the USA..God only knows what we would be like...I pray my granchildren live a full happy life in the US...
The media needs to be treated like traitors/murderers when they leak any info about our military activities..PERIOD !!!
If we don`t wake up and stop living a fantasy life, there will be no USA to worry about protecting...
Sorry for the rant, but we need to get serious and take care of this the right way instead of pu$$yfooting
around.....THX...

Remember, the strong survive..That is how we got what we got over the years and through many wars and sacrifices...

That's right, nuke the locations where the world's oil is and see what happens to the US as well as our allies economies all in the name of being angry and feeling the need to lump innocent civilians in with insurgents...

And since you have advocated using the military as the defining option to solve this problem, you must be putting yourself on the chopping block as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redneckpapa1996

They only understand war and violence and have been this way for thousands of years, so bring it to them like they have never seen before......

And don't romanticize US History. How many wars have we participated in? How do you explain the deaths of native americans as the result of the expansion of the United States?

Someone could say the same quote about us!

This country is supposed to be strong because of our diversity, ingenuity, and our Constitution among other things-not because we can enforce our will upon others militarily.

You're cutting the list short of countries harboring terrorists...

Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, Russia, Spain, Great Britain, Japan, the Phillipines, Malaysia, United Arab Emirates, a host of countries in Africa...

oops, forgot one-the United States!

**Kronos1965** · 02-20-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burly

Thought I would share this email I recieved about the war on terror. Very good points in my opinion. I feel just the same!

"Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001 ?
Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from our nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania ?
Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?
And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated" when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet?
Well, I don't. I don't care at all.
I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.
I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia
I'll care when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi tells the world he is sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.
I'll care when the cowardly so-called "insurgents" in Iraq come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques.
I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide bombs.
I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights.
In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care.
When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college-hazing incident, rest assured that I don't care.
When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank that I don't care.
When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed "special" food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being "mishandled," you can absolutely believe in your heart of hearts that I don't care.
And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled "Koran" and other times "Quran." Well, Jimmy Crack Corn and ---- you guessed it - - I don't care ! ! ! ! !
I add:
--"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan

While I can see some of the points you make, not caring about the treatment of prisoners, I assume then that you fully supported what happened to US prisoners during Vietnam...denying food, medical care, enduring torture, faith etc...

The terrorist act on 9/11 was done by people claiming to do so in the name of their religion...not all who are Muslim condone/support or would believe this is the expression of their faith. Would you care if all Christians were to be killed because of the acts of a few? (Gosh darn Crusades as an example...)

It's true, we're fighting an enemy who will use whatever means at their disposal to play a war that they can win.

Each time a tired GI is involved in a regrettable act, it only stirs the locals against us. You should care that the local population is truly the one group that can help us end this situation in Iraq...

Burly · 02-20-2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kronos1965

While I can see some of the points you make, not caring about the treatment of prisoners, I assume then that you fully supported what happened to US prisoners during Vietnam...denying food, medical care, enduring torture, faith etc...

The terrorist act on 9/11 was done by people claiming to do so in the name of their religion...not all who are Muslim condone/support or would believe this is the expression of their faith. Would you care if all Christians were to be killed because of the acts of a few? (Gosh darn Crusades as an example...)

It's true, we're fighting an enemy who will use whatever means at their disposal to play a war that they can win.

Each time a tired GI is involved in a regrettable act, it only stirs the locals against us. You should care that the local population is truly the one group that can help us end this situation in Iraq...

I am not talking about the 1960's, I am talking post 9/11 era. IMO we should have stayed out of Vietnam however, once America has been attacked all is fair IMO.

EP6:11 · 02-20-2007, 05:35 PM

I'm with you all the way!

**Kronos1965** · 02-20-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burly

I am not talking about the 1960's, I am talking post 9/11 era. IMO we should have stayed out of Vietnam however, once America has been attacked all is fair IMO.

So the United States gets a clean start post 1960s...okay.

What's your stance on the Americans killed in Beirut in 1983-should be blow up Lebanon because they hosted the terrorists?

Remember the USS Cole in 2000? Should we blow up Yemen?

Or is this decision only made on American soil? Then we blow up all Americans because surely you don't believe that only the terrorists in the United States were on board the aircraft and since we can't identify who's a terrorist, we should simply wipe out selected states or do you have any geography in mind that is a nest for terrorism in the United States..

shawnwat4 · 02-20-2007, 05:59 PM

You all know where I stand as I join the Guard. If it means being deployed like so many thousands before me, then so be it

And Kronos, as a history major in college, i am as well aware of the USA's not so commendable past.
Manifest destiny anyone?
But I don't give a flying **** about that. The US gov't makes decisions that are best suited for us! And I'm damn glad they do. You got to always look after #1, because no one else will. The U.S. has to look after our interests first. If i was venezuelan, or cuban, or north korean, i may have a different opinion. But i'm not, so lets get more troops over there and sort this **** out

**redneckpapa1996** · 02-20-2007, 05:59 PM

All the debating and analizing and trying to do it the democratic way does not change the fact that "The strong survive and has since the beginning of time"...No matter what you say or think....We the people, our civilization has let it get to this point and all the dreaming and wishing will not fix it...
No matter if you like the way we may have done this or that in the past, we did it and we live like we do because of it..Period !!!!Love the USA or go try your luck in another country...Just my ten cents worth...