Science vs. Religion - Page 2

dawgs77 · 01-24-2008, 04:19 PM

Not all science is theory. And I think it explains the making of the world and the inhabitants that were on it....BEFORE us until now then the Bible for various religions explains it.

kman · 01-24-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westondean

I don't understand why people can't accept the fact that evolution is basically proven. I mean that by no means denies the existence of God or a creator. Matter and energy is the basis of all life, so why couldn't that be what God originally made, therefore making the world and all of us in one swift move...?... Isn't it possible that all religions are just ways of explaining the unknown in their times and included morals because everyone has a conscious and morals to some point???

i agree with you, its just that many (too many) take the bible literally and thats were the debate begins. I think the two can coexist, creationism and evolution. Its hard to imagine that we are an accident and there isn't some master involvment somewhere in the process. What caused the big bang, or what "created" the big bang? It amazes me that evolution is still debated so heatedly. When the rest of the secular world looks at America and sees this debate going on here i'm sure there is a collective "huh!!" are these Americans serious?

Yahooligan · 01-24-2008, 05:00 PM

westondean shares my same view on this. For centuries, anything that couldn't be explained were attributed to God. Science isn't killing God and there's nothing to say God and science can't co-exist. There's also nothing to say evolution and God can't co-exist. Suppose God did make man, we already know beings evolve. Life will find a way to survive, so to say God trumps evolution is a rather foolish thing to say.

My other issue with religion is, in all reality, it was created by man. The bible was written by man, there are multiple versions of the bible, which means it's open for interpretation. Let's not forget the fact that there are multiple religions throughout the world. If there truly were one God and man was created by him, why would there be so many different theories and beliefs around him?

Don't forget Occam's Razor...

Also, I'm am only talking about religion in the pure sense of the word, I am not talking about organized religion and the churches. That is a completely different ball of wax, IMO.

What I find rather amusing is that more people believe in or are willing to believe in the notion of a God than are willing to believe there are UFOs or extra-terrestrial beings.

Oh yes, and then there's free will, which religious folk seem to be rather hypocritical about. On the one hand, God gave man free will. On the other, people ask "How could God allow such horrible things?" in reference to acts of man. So, which is it? We have free will or God has a plan? You can't have it both ways.

I'm not an athiest but I am agnostic. I'll believe it when I see it but I do find a lot of the history behind religion to be fascinating. I just don't buy what the big churches are selling, which is a bunch of brainwashing and passing off responsibility. The whole message of "Don't worry, God will take care of you." is one I don't agree with and it fosters a weak society that makes itself rely on something intangible. If God really took care of us there would be no people dying of starvation or disease. Oh, but there's a plan...

dawgs77 · 01-24-2008, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahooligan

westondean shares my same view on this. For centuries, anything that couldn't be explained were attributed to God. Science isn't killing God and there's nothing to say God and science can't co-exist. There's also nothing to say evolution and God can't co-exist. Suppose God did make man, we already know beings evolve. Life will find a way to survive, so to say God trumps evolution is a rather foolish thing to say.

My other issue with religion is, in all reality, it was created by man. The bible was written by man, there are multiple versions of the bible, which means it's open for interpretation. Let's not forget the fact that there are multiple religions throughout the world. If there truly were one God and man was created by him, why would there be so many different theories and beliefs around him?

Don't forget Occam's Razor...

Also, I'm am only talking about religion in the pure sense of the word, I am not talking about organized religion and the churches. That is a completely different ball of wax, IMO.

What I find rather amusing is that more people believe in or are willing to believe in the notion of a God than are willing to believe there are UFOs or extra-terrestrial beings.

Oh yes, and then there's free will, which religious folk seem to be rather hypocritical about. On the one hand, God gave man free will. On the other, people ask "How could God allow such horrible things?" in reference to acts of man. So, which is it? We have free will or God has a plan? You can't have it both ways.

I'm not an athiest but I am agnostic. I'll believe it when I see it but I do find a lot of the history behind religion to be fascinating. I just don't buy what the big churches are selling, which is a bunch of brainwashing and passing off responsibility. The whole message of "Don't worry, God will take care of you." is one I don't agree with and it fosters a weak society that makes itself rely on something intangible. If God really took care of us there would be no people dying of starvation or disease. Oh, but there's a plan...

NIce statement....I can't agree more.

**matthews** · 01-24-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgs77

NIce statement....I can't agree more.

Yep, me too...

kman · 01-24-2008, 05:27 PM

i know it sound blasphemous, and i'm a little uneasy saying this, lest i be struck dead by a bolt of lighting, but some would argue the line between a cult following and a religious following is very fine.

LittleRam · 01-24-2008, 05:58 PM

Interesting reading....

answer this question....

If god created heaven and earth and all living things, why are the dinosaurs not mentioned in the Bible?

SKEET · 01-24-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahooligan

westondean shares my same view on this. For centuries, anything that couldn't be explained were attributed to God. Science isn't killing God and there's nothing to say God and science can't co-exist. There's also nothing to say evolution and God can't co-exist. Suppose God did make man, we already know beings evolve. Life will find a way to survive, so to say God trumps evolution is a rather foolish thing to say.

My other issue with religion is, in all reality, it was created by man. The bible was written by man, there are multiple versions of the bible, which means it's open for interpretation. Let's not forget the fact that there are multiple religions throughout the world. If there truly were one God and man was created by him, why would there be so many different theories and beliefs around him?

Don't forget Occam's Razor...

Also, I'm am only talking about religion in the pure sense of the word, I am not talking about organized religion and the churches. That is a completely different ball of wax, IMO.

What I find rather amusing is that more people believe in or are willing to believe in the notion of a God than are willing to believe there are UFOs or extra-terrestrial beings.

Oh yes, and then there's free will, which religious folk seem to be rather hypocritical about. On the one hand, God gave man free will. On the other, people ask "How could God allow such horrible things?" in reference to acts of man. So, which is it? We have free will or God has a plan? You can't have it both ways.

I'm not an athiest but I am agnostic. I'll believe it when I see it but I do find a lot of the history behind religion to be fascinating. I just don't buy what the big churches are selling, which is a bunch of brainwashing and passing off responsibility. The whole message of "Don't worry, God will take care of you." is one I don't agree with and it fosters a weak society that makes itself rely on something intangible. If God really took care of us there would be no people dying of starvation or disease. Oh, but there's a plan...

When people say God will take of you doesn't mean you won't die or have something bad happen to you.No matter how long you live if it be 10 yrs or two hundred the bible tells us that your our life will go by like a vapor.And it will.It's when that vapor is over is what counts.

Seranin · 01-24-2008, 07:19 PM

Clever story.

The absolute beginning (if there was a beginning) of the universe is not something that science can properly explain. It's too abstract a concept. If you think too much about how or why we got here you start to question reality - and that is where religion has an advantage - it's an easy answer - God did it. However, I don't believe that human beings can properly describe or explain "the power" or "god". I don't see a problem with attempting to anyway - that's philosophy - and even when humans follow and preach "good" and "evil", "rules" about living one's life, and attribute it all to some deity, there's no problem with that necessarily. It's only when those who choose to live their life according to their deity believe everyone must do the same, and work towards that end that it becomes a problem. Then again, there's a fine line between sharing your beliefs with others and pressing your beliefs on others.

I agree with most of the posts above me - science and religion go hand in hand. If you follow science at all, you quickly realize that as we discover explanations about our questions about our life and world, the more we find is still left to discover. I believe there will always be room for a "power" to answer those mysteries that science can't (yet, or ever) solve.

kman · 01-24-2008, 07:25 PM

Well said Seranin. Yes religion helps us fill the void between what we know and don't, but it should never be used to lesson our curiosity to explore and learn. Exploring and learning, curiousity, is natural. Thats what got me into a Titan in the first place, and apes out of the trees.

GMVisitor · 01-25-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleRam

Interesting reading....

answer this question....

If god created heaven and earth and all living things, why are the dinosaurs not mentioned in the Bible?

They might have been:

In Job 40:15-24, God describes to Job (who lived after the Flood) a great beast with which Job was familiar. This great animal, called 'behemoth,' is described as 'the chief of the ways of God,' perhaps the biggest land animal God had created. Impressively, he moved his tail like a CEDAR TREE! Although some Bible translations say this may have been an elephant or hippopotamus, the description actually fits that of a dinosaur like Brachiosaurus. Elephants and hippos do not have tails like cedar trees!

\"Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God.\" - Job 40:15-19 (NIV translation)

GMVisitor · 01-25-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westondean

I don't understand why people can't accept the fact that evolution is basically proven. I mean that by no means denies the existence of God or a creator. Matter and energy is the basis of all life, so why couldn't that be what God originally made, therefore making the world and all of us in one swift move...?... Isn't it possible that all religions are just ways of explaining the unknown in their times and included morals because everyone has a conscious and morals to some point???

If evolution is basically proven then how do you explain the following:

"NOT ONE CHANGE OF SPECIES INTO ANOTHER IS ON RECORD. We cannot
prove that a single species has ever changed."
- Charles Darwin

The human body (or the body of any other creature) cannot live
without most internal organs, such as the heart, the lungs, the liver,
et cetera. Remove any of these organs, and the specimen dies. This
implies that the entire body was created at one point in time.

Natural selection cannot produce new genes; it only selects among
preexisting characteristics.

According to ALL theories on the evolution of the solar system:

a. The planets should all rotate on their axes in the
same direction; Venus and Uranus rotate `backwards`.

b. All 42 moons of the various planets should revolve in
the same direction; at least 11 revolve `backwards`.

c. The orbits of these 42 moons should all lie in the equatorial
plane of the planet they orbit; many, including the earth's moon,
are highly inclined.

Human footprints are found alongside dinosaur footprints in the rock
formations of the Paluxy riverbed in Texas. This obviously shows that
man and dinosaurs lived at the same time and the same place. But
evolutionists claim that dinosaurs became extinct about 30 million years
before `man` supposedly began to `evolve`.

MANY DATING TECHNIQUES SHOW THE EARTH AND SOLAR
SYSTEM TO BE YOUNG

1. Direct measurements of the earth's magnetic field over the past 140
years show a steady and rapid decline in its strength. This decay
pattern is consistent with the theoretical view that there is an
electrical current inside the earth which produces the magnetic field.
If this view is correct, then 25,000 years ago the electrical current
would have been so vast that the earth's structure could not have
survived the heat produced. This would imply that the earth could not be
older than 25,000 years.

2. The atmosphere has less than 40,000 years worth of helium, based on
just the production of helium from the decay of uranium and thorium.
There is no known means by which large amounts of helium can escape from
the atmosphere. The atmosphere appears to be young.

3. The rate at which elements such as copper, gold, tin, lead, silicon,
mercury, uranium and nickel are entering the oceans is very rapid when
compared with the small quantities of these elements already in the
oceans. Therefore, the oceans must be very much younger than a million
years.

4. Evolutionists believe that the continents have existed for at least
1 billion years. However, the continents are being eroded at a rate
that would have leveled them in a relatively short 14 million years.

Since 1836, over one hundred different observers at the Royal
Greenwich Observatory and U.S. Naval Observatory have made direct visual
measurements which show that the diameter of the sun is shrinking at a
rate of about .1% each century or about 5 feet per hour! Furthermore,
records of solar eclipses indicate that this rapid shrinkage has been
going on for at least the past 400 years. Several indirect techniques
also confirm this gravitational collapse, although these inferred
collapse rates are only about 1/7th as much. Using the most
conservative data, one must conclude that had the sun existed one
million years ago, it would have been so large that it would have heated
the earth so much that life could not have survived. Yet, evolutionists
say that a million years ago all the present forms of life were
essentially as they are now, having completed their `evolution` that
began 200 million years ago.

If man and languages `evolved`, the earliest languages should be the
simplest. On the contrary, as one studies languages that are
increasingly ancient, such as Latin (200 B.C.), Greek (800 B.C.), and
Vedic Sanskrit (1500 B.C.), they become INCREASINGLY COMPLEX with
respect to syntax, cases, genders, moods, voices, tenses, and verb
forms. The evidence indicates that languages do not Evolve, they
DEvolve.

Just a few things to think about

Adman · 01-25-2008, 06:41 PM

A more compelling argument for the existence of God:

see "hottest girl ever" thread

oh, and beer.

LittleRam · 01-25-2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMVisitor

[/b]

They might have been:

In Job 40:15-24, God describes to Job (who lived after the Flood) a great beast with which Job was familiar. This great animal, called 'behemoth,' is described as 'the chief of the ways of God,' perhaps the biggest land animal God had created. Impressively, he moved his tail like a CEDAR TREE! Although some Bible translations say this may have been an elephant or hippopotamus, the description actually fits that of a dinosaur like Brachiosaurus. Elephants and hippos do not have tails like cedar trees!

\"Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God.\" - Job 40:15-19 (NIV translation)

Interesting, but vague.

behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
lo now, his strenght is in his loins, and his force is on the naval of his belly.
he moves his tail like a cedar; the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bone are like bars of iron.
he is the chief of the ways of god; he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all of the beasts of the field play.

I looked up in the my bible to read what was before and after those verses and this is what my bible said in the verses you quoted. makes it even more interesting.

Thanks...

GMVisitor · 01-25-2008, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleRam

Interesting, but vague.

behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
lo now, his strenght is in his loins, and his force is on the naval of his belly.
he moves his tail like a cedar; the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bone are like bars of iron.
he is the chief of the ways of god; he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all of the beasts of the field play.

I looked up in the my bible to read what was before and after those verses and this is what my bible said in the verses you quoted. makes it even more interesting.

Thanks...

Your welcome, I always enjoy a friendly discussion about religion.