Caught in the Crosshairs of Bill and Hillary Clinton.

[54warrior]

Wow, quite a thread here.

I don't like Bush, but I'll guarantee we're better off with him than we would have been with Al Gore or John Kerry. Given the circumstances that Bush has dealt with during his presidency, I think he's done an OK job. 9/11, Katrina, etc.

I still think that the war in the Middle East could be solved right quickly with a few phone calls. We're not over there to make friends with these people. Time to send a message to ALL of them.

[chunko]

Originally Posted by 54warrior

Wow, quite a thread here.

I don't like Bush, but I'll guarantee we're better off with him than we would have been with Al Gore or John Kerry. Given the circumstances that Bush has dealt with during his presidency, I think he's done an OK job. 9/11, Katrina, etc.

I still think that the war in the Middle East could be solved right quickly with a few phone calls. We're not over there to make friends with these people. Time to send a message to ALL of them.

I would have rather had a greenie weenie in the office than an oil man deciding our middle east politics... I truly believe that GWB has too much of a confict of interest (as does Cheeney) to be trusted in these matters. Is it coincidence that both of their wallets are much fatter thanks to increased oil prices and a war in an oil producing nation?...Perhaps. But perhaps not.

[bbomar]

Originally Posted by 54warrior

Wow, quite a thread here.

I don't like Bush, but I'll guarantee we're better off with him than we would have been with Al Gore or John Kerry. Given the circumstances that Bush has dealt with during his presidency, I think he's done an OK job. 9/11, Katrina, etc.

I still think that the war in the Middle East could be solved right quickly with a few phone calls. We're not over there to make friends with these people. Time to send a message to ALL of them.

Never try to guess what someone may or may not do.

Maybe they would have gone after the right person, in the right country.

Instead, we have Daddy's puppet finishing something that was started in 1990.

And, I agree this "war" could be ended quickly if they so choose, to do so.

[Overide]

turn the whole sandbox into glass and start with a clean slate?

[chunko]

Originally Posted by bbomar

Never try to guess what someone may or may not do.

Maybe they would have gone after the right person, in the right country.

Instead, we have Daddy's puppet finishing something that was started in 1990.

And, I agree this "war" could be ended quickly if they so choose, to do so.

To a degree, I wish he was his daddy's puppet. Unfortunately Jr got out the scissors and cut the strings once he became president. GWB Senior advised his son against occupying Iraq. GWB Sr. didn't take Baghdad because it was a bad idea...not because he didn't have the balls. Unfotunately...Jr thinks he's doing what his dad couldn't.

Aint it great when someone's daddy issues can cost us hundreds of billions dollars and thousands of soldiers lives?

[chunko]

Originally Posted by adavis99

To a degree, I wish he was his daddy's puppet. Unfortunately Jr got out the scissors and cut the strings once he became president. GWB Senior advised his son against occupying Iraq. GWB Sr. didn't take Baghdad because it was a bad idea...not because he didn't have the balls. Unfotunately...Jr thinks he's doing what his dad couldn't.

Aint it great when someone's daddy issues can cost us hundreds of billions dollars and thousands of soldiers lives?

http://www.thememoryhole.org/mil/bushsr-iraq.htm

[rholland]

This is a picture that will never make it to the nightly news.

John Gebhardt's wife, Mindy, said that this little girl's entire family was executed. The insurgents intended to execute the little girl also, and shot her in the head...but they failed to kill her. She was cared for in John's hospital and is healing up, but continues to cry and moan. The nurses said John is the only one who seems to calm her down, so John has spent the last four nights holding her while they both slept in that chair. The girl is coming along with her healing.

He is a real Star of the war, and represents what America is trying to do.

This, my friends, is worth sharing. Go for it!! You'll never see things like this in the news. Please keep this going. Nothing will happen if you don't, but the American public needs to see pictures like this and needs to realize that what we're doing over here is making a difference. Even if it is just one little girl at a time.

James Gates U. S. Navy

[chunko]

Originally Posted by rholland

This is a picture that will never make it to the nightly news.

John Gebhardt's wife, Mindy, said that this little girl's entire family was executed. The insurgents intended to execute the little girl also, and shot her in the head...but they failed to kill her. She was cared for in John's hospital and is healing up, but continues to cry and moan. The nurses said John is the only one who seems to calm her down, so John has spent the last four nights holding her while they both slept in that chair. The girl is coming along with her healing.

He is a real Star of the war, and represents what America is trying to do.

This, my friends, is worth sharing. Go for it!! You'll never see things like this in the news. Please keep this going. Nothing will happen if you don't, but the American public needs to see pictures like this and needs to realize that what we're doing over here is making a difference. Even if it is just one little girl at a time.

James Gates U. S. Navy

Okay, we've saved a girl...

But most estimates put Iraqi Deaths at between 75K and 100K for the war so far. Probably a few (exagerating) innocents in those numbers don't ya think. Of course what we're doing is not ALL bad, I don't think even the most liberal of liberals would argue we've done nothing good in Iraq. But whether we've done more harm than good, is a tougher question.

The deeper question, the tougher question I would ask of those still hawkish on the war is then whether we've done enough good to justify the US loss of life, loss of resources, and loss of allies... I don't feel safer thanks to the Iraq war...it's my firmly held opinion, based on some reading, and some intuition and very few logical leaps of faith... that by occupying Iraq we've created a state of chaos, poverty, and anger that is creating a ripe breeding ground for the terrorists of the future.

[rholland]

In every war from the American Revolution to Iraq, there have been Americans who did not believe we should fight. But Viet Nam and later, the leftest in this country have work toward the defeat of out troops in the field. They have invested everthing in the hopes that we lose in the Middle East, and good well meaning American people have bought in to the media lies, and are going along with them.
The druggies and hippies from the 60s are now in charge in Hollywood, the media and education, and are doing everything they can to destroy this country so they can rebuild it as their Socialist utopia.

But the American people have a right to vote for the country they want, and if the majority wants a defeated, socialist, morally bankrupt country, then that is what they will have.

[Kronos1965]

Originally Posted by rholland

In every war from the American Revolution to Iraq, there have been Americans who did not believe we should fight. But Viet Nam and later, the leftest in this country have work toward the defeat of out troops in the field. They have invested everthing in the hopes that we lose in the Middle East, and good well meaning American people have bought in to the media lies, and are going along with them.
The druggies and hippies from the 60s are now in charge in Hollywood, the media and education, and are doing everything they can to destroy this country so they can rebuild it as their Socialist utopia.

But the American people have a right to vote for the country they want, and if the majority wants a defeated, socialist, morally bankrupt country, then that is what they will have.

So only people who did drugs and/or are hippies run media, education, and Hollywood?

And it is YOUR country when the majority think the way you do but if the majority do not, then it someone else's country? And if they do no think the way you do, then the must clearly be against the country.morally bankrupt, etc?

Leftists work towards the defeat of soldiers in the field? Care to cite a source that states that there's a meeting they all attend to decide that?

If the Democrats do win, are you saying you will pack up and leave until such time as the Republicans come into power and right the terrible wrongs done during the previous administration? Did you do that when Democrats were in power before?

Our strategy is Iraq is flawed, the leadership that cannot articulate it, who tried to make it a clean war to begin with sold Americans a bunch of stuff that this would be "difficult" but neglected to state how difficult it would be.

Now the next administration regardless of who it is will be held responsible for cleaning up a bigger mess and left with no immediate relief. Leave and you destabilize the region. Stay with the current strategy and you put soldliers at risk in an asymmetrical conflict.

Based solely on this issue, I would vote out any Republican or Democrat who states that they will "stay the course" or "get us out of there in a hurry."

All this from person who has voted based upon issues, not party affiliations...

[rholland]

Originally Posted by adavis99

Vientam and this war were stupid wars. Remember how gung-ho the "druggy hippies" were to bomb the **** of Afghanistan...to kill binladen and the taliban. I do. Seattle looked like f'ing Texas with flags everywhere and talking about kickin *** and taking names. I mean, 9/11 had even the hippies ready to kick ***...and what did our president do, with the nation rallying behind him, offering up whatever he wanted to confront the terrorists? He sent us into a bullsh*t quagmire in Iraq and severed most all ties we had with allies. Nice work bush. Although I'm sure some could find a way to blame democrats for this? Personally I would have preffered if we had a democrat in office. In my mind...doing nothing would have been way more productive than the actions bush jr has taken...

Of course, even better would have been to have someon like McCain in office, a Veteran who understands that a firm, yet carefully calculated plan of action was called for that leveraged our allied support (both @ home and abroad) and would work to make the world a safer, better place. We had a chance for a return to greatness (in the eyes of the rest of the world) post 9/11, the whole world was watching...and in my mind we (our president) dropped the ball.

But I have strong opinions on this matter...can you tell?

Viet Nam was a war to stop the unchecked expansion of Communism throughout the Far East.
Kennedy, Democrat, sent the first troops there in 1961, Johnson, Democrat, made it into our war in 1965, that’s when I went. Nixon, Republican, got us out.
And from the North Vietnamese negotiator's, own words, they would have stopped the war and settled for a divided country by 1968, if not for people like Jane Fonda and other American protesters, giving them the hope and the will to fight on.
The difference between the pre 1960 wars and now, is that even though some people did not want to fight, once the fighting started, they would all pull together to win.

I was against going into Iraq, without finnishing Afghanistan first, but he didn't ask me.

[TallTexan]

I saw first hand the cowards of this country during the 60's. No secret was made of draft dodgers running to Canada or Europe as Clinton did. GW went into the NG to have a good chance of staying out of the fight but at least he was on stand by. Others hurried into college for a deferral, especially the elite that mommy had enough money to help save her little darlin. Cowards would even admit they did not want to go and would go to Canada if all else failed. Vietnam was fought with patriots and the poor. The patriots felt obligated and they went to do their part. The poor went weather they wanted to or not because they had no sugar momma to get them in college or send them to Canada. Then all these cowards got religion and become peace activists and started marching and protesting. They burned their draft cards and said they would go and fight but they morally had a problem with fighting. Short for coward.
Today everyone has their own reason for not wanting to fight, maybe why some never figured they owe a few years to Uncle Sam to be on that fence if trouble came. Today they are horified that we went to war and demand we get out as soon as possible so we can be at peace. I remember in boot camp we had guys that would pi** in their bed every night trying to get out. They did not care who knew it, they just wanted out. The one good thing is that even if a democrat president takes us to war there are men who will fight if called. Those who refuse under Bush will probably become republicans and be against the war. I wonder what it will take for some to get mad enough to fight, maybe nothing.

[rrumaner]

I was to young for Vietnam and too old for all the following wars. Even so, I would not have gone to Vietnam. My parents had already stated that they would have moved to Canada to keep me out. They were around for WWII and Korea and had no desire to see me go fight what they thought was a mistake. I respect those that went. I have friends that lost their older brothers, so I know what sacrifice is.

Now we are asking our kids to go to another screwed up conflict that we shouldn't have ever been involved in. Sides are drawn up and only after November 5th (or whatever date the electionis this year) will we know which way things are going to go in the next 10 years.

[TallTexan]

Originally Posted by rrumaner

I was to young for Vietnam and too old for all the following wars. Even so, I would not have gone to Vietnam. My parents had already stated that they would have moved to Canada to keep me out. They were around for WWII and Korea and had no desire to see me go fight what they thought was a mistake. I respect those that went. I have friends that lost their older brothers, so I know what sacrifice is.

Now we are asking our kids to go to another screwed up conflict that we shouldn't have ever been involved in. Sides are drawn up and only after November 5th (or whatever date the electionis this year) will we know which way things are going to go in the next 10 years.

As I stated before, i was sent to war by a democrat President. Even if we have a dem president , they might decide we need to go to war. I don't think it matters if porky pig is in office, when war breaks out some are not going to fight or support those that do. My Dad flew 52 missions in a B24 bomber out of Italy. Shot down twice and lost quite a few of his crew during the missions. They were fighting for ITALY, not America, he was fighting for Europe, not America. A lot of folks did not agree with us fighting over there for some one else but I think history proves that it was worth it all. Maybe somewhere down the road we just might see some good come out of this darn war.

[chunko]

Originally Posted by TallTexan

As I stated before, i was sent to war by a democrat President. Even if we have a dem president , they might decide we need to go to war. I don't think it matters if porky pig is in office, when war breaks out some are not going to fight or support those that do. My Dad flew 52 missions in a B24 bomber out of Italy. Shot down twice and lost quite a few of his crew during the missions. They were fighting for ITALY, not America, he was fighting for Europe, not America. A lot of folks did not agree with us fighting over there for some one else but I think history proves that it was worth it all. Maybe somewhere down the road we just might see some good come out of this darn war.

It's one thing to defend our country, it's another to participate in a preemptive strike based on false evidence, that has turned to an occupation which even the people who sent us there have a hard time defining now what is success...
...staying for a hundred years?

I would die for my country, but not for Bush's dumb@ss. I feel deeply for every soldier that dies over there, and while I respect their commitment to protect our nation, I wish I could put Bush on trial for abusing their commitment.