does not deserve to be president

[Overide]

all I keep hearing is blah blah blah Bill Clinton is the anti-christ and he really ****ed up this country, and blah blah blah George Bush is the savior and his foresight has saved this country. Man some of you really have the blinders on focused solely on your point of view....

[Kronos1965]

Originally Posted by adavis99

gr8titan, I agree with most all of what you said.

I think social programs need to focus more on education, job programs, and working with troubled youth to try and break patterns of dysfunction that are often passed on from generation to generation. Also, the most dysfunctional members of society tend to reproduce the most...which is hard to combat. Especially when the religious right is fighting hard against giving away condoms, birth control, etc.

I'd much rather give out free morning after pills then pay for a child to raise a child on welfare its whole life.

Well stated.

The problem is that those populations who receive aid do not vote, are often marginalized except when there's a problem and then that problem becomes in the public eye and represents 100% of what people think about the program.

The other political party not in power jumps on it and what we end up with are poorly implemented or run social programs.

And currently, it can be easier to stay on certain social programs rather than get off them.

Candidates in power have no reason to change that and opposing party candidates want to abolish them in broad sweeping gestures. That is akin to taking all of our Titans away tomorrow-you may be unprepared for such a drastic change and unable to function efficiently without it.

I'll vote for the candidate that is more centrist in his/her views in this area...

[BLBJBranch]

Gr8Titan,
We should just give it up, man. We'll never convince some people to believe in what we think (not that we necessarily think alike ).

What I have learned is that people seem to vote for what suits THEM at the time, not for what's best for the country (this is just a general statement, not aimed at anyone on this forum).

When I was in college, a lot of the socialist ideas made some sense to me. Why? Because I had no money and I wanted some of the wealth spread my way. I believe this is why a lot of college kids are voting for Obama. Plus, when you get bombarded by liberal thought all day long, you start to absorb it. Luckily for me my conservative Christian values won out and I was able to ignore the atheist, socialist, vitriolic ideas that hit me from every direction when I was in school.

Minorities and immigrants tend to vote liberal for the same reason. As a population, they tend to be lower income, so they want the government to give them some help. Lower income whites are the same way. That's why there are a lot of old-school democrats in the southern states. They have little money and they want some of the wealth spread their way.

However, once I started making decent money and working with people making good money, I started to see the trend shift. "Why should MY money be taken from me and my family to give to a bunch of deadbeats," is a prominent viewpoint. Is this necessarily good for the country? Maybe not.

What I believe in is that the government is not there to give you anything. They are there to provide you the proper environment to give you the chance to make something of yourself. I believe conservatism most closely lines up with this thought. Liberal socialism is 180* out from my line of thinking. I'll never change my mind on this, regardless of what anyone on this forum thinks or says.

The other day, this guy tried to get under my skin. He asked me if I knew the definition of a conservative. I rolled my eyes and said go ahead. He said, "A man with two perfectly good legs who never learned to walk because he can't move forward."

Without missing a beat I totally shut him up. My response was this..."Well then, I guess the definition of a liberal would be 'A man with two perfectly good legs who never learned to walk because he expects the government to carry him'." The dude was speechless.

I'd say this to all in closing:
If you want the government to carry you, vote Democrat. If you want the chance to make something of yourself on your own, vote Republican. But don't spend your time telling me that I'm wrong. I'll never believe it, just like you'll never believe me when I tell you that you're wrong. The first Tuesday in November will be here soon enough. Just make sure you vote your conscience and for what you believe is best for your country. Don't vote to just help yourself.

[Overide]

Thats exactly why we should vote Ron Paul and keep much more of our money!

[Kronos1965]

Originally Posted by BLBJBranch

What I believe in is that the government is not there to give you anything. They are there to provide you the proper environment to give you the chance to make something of yourself.

... The first Tuesday in November will be here soon enough. Just make sure you vote your conscience and for what you believe is best for your country. Don't vote to just help yourself.

Are all social program funding going to deadbeats? Is there ever a situation in which money should be used in the manner as I cited in the quote?

Don't vote to just help yourself...I'm confused. So if you do not vote for social programs in some way or vote for the unilateral abolishment, aren't you voting for just yourself?

I am not saying that there aren't deadbeats on our system. I am not saying that certain programs should be abolished, retooled, or evaluated differently.

But a good program helps ultimately reduce the cost to us as taxpayers if it breaks the problem early enough.

[BLBJBranch]

Originally Posted by Kronos1965

But a good program helps ultimately reduce the cost to us as taxpayers if it breaks the problem early enough.

I respectfully disagree. Social programs by their very nature tend to result in the continued dependence on help from the government. Unless you teach a man to fish...

[rholland]

Originally Posted by Overide

all I keep hearing is blah blah blah Bill Clinton is the anti-christ and he really ****ed up this country, and blah blah blah George Bush is the savior and his foresight has saved this country. Man some of you really have the blinders on focused solely on your point of view....

Taking about the pot calling the kettle black.

[TallTexan]

It is funny how just being a Christian automatically makes me a Republican while being a atheist automatically makes you a Democrat. Gays vote Democrat. Mexican Americans vote Democrat so they can continue to come across our borders illegally and the dems will hold the door open. The blacks vote Democrat to get more freebies. A lot of blacks are religious but the money overrides their Christianty. Whites are mixed in those catogories but add a few new ones. Anti-war vote mostly democratic as do unions because the dems support the unions. I think most here would agree with these general assumptions although there are always some who vote out of the norm. Most dems automatically start bashing Christian folks, as seen on some posts here, not because of how they vote, but about their religiion. 90% of blacks can vote for one party and maybe even one candidate and no one says nothing. 75% of Christians vote for one party and the world is comming to an end. They call us right wingers. I always have liked to be right, never liked being wrong. There is also another group. That is a group of folks who actually lean democratic but will vote republican in some instances. They may be atheists, love social programs, are against the war but are against illegal immigration . Those can go either way. JMO

[rholland]

Originally Posted by BLBJBranch

I respectfully disagree. Social programs by their very nature tend to result in the continued dependence on help from the government. Unless you teach a man to fish...

Right now, in the farming areas of this country, there is not enough labor to harvest all the crops, and yet there are 37 million people drawing welfare.

Welfare in the USA http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm
The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:

Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.

[MXtitan24]

glad we are still talking about Obama..

[Overide]

Originally Posted by rholland

Taking about the pot calling the kettle black.

yeah i agree i am pretty pro ron paul, but i am middle of the road on most issues and i think that i have a fair balance of conservative and liberal views. I dont disagree with most of what everyone has been saying, it is just some people kept using the same argument that clinton f'd up. we all agree that he did, move on!

[Tmaxxattack]

Originally Posted by MXtitan24

glad we are still talking about Obama..

I did my part today...voted for Hillary today and can't wait to vote against her in November...Voting the lesser of 2 evils in both cases.

[TallTexan]

I think Obama better hurry up and run Clinton out of the race before folks figure him out. This guy don't just have a skeleton in his closet, he has a whole cemetary. Today he is saying his dealings with a crook on his real estate dealings was just a ''bonehead'' move. I hear that in criminal courts all the time. I would hope that if the phone rang in the middle of the night with a problem in the world, Obama would not make another bonehead move. This guy is a robot built by the media and when all his history comes out, he will start shorting out.

[chunko]

Originally Posted by BLBJBranch

Gr8Titan,

However, once I started making decent money and working with people making good money, I started to see the trend shift. "Why should MY money be taken from me and my family to give to a bunch of deadbeats," is a prominent viewpoint. Is this necessarily good for the country? Maybe not.

What? Never give up. Conversations like these are what America needs more of, especially when folks are able to speak passionately, but with open ears and minds. I'm not sure what's in the kool-aid down in Texas, but yall at least know how to pick a truck...so we can at least start there (even if you can't see what a complete moron Bush is...sorry had to throw that in there). I mean I doubt we're THAT different. Typically, you become affiliated with a particular party because the good stuff they do outweighs the bad in your mind. People can be very similar in beliefs, yet vote for different parties simply because of the prioritization of their beliefs. Hopefully, nobody here takes the stuff I say too personally. I tend to rail on the far right only because we have more outspoken people on the board on that side. If we had a lot of people on the far left (who could talk without getting banned...ha ha), I'd be verbally with them as well

Anyway, I decided to run with your quote about being republican and not wanting the government to take your taxes. The republicans (Primarily Bush) have been reckless with money lately. They are spending out of control, and trying to cut taxes at the same time. While the party was once about "live and let live" aka they weren't in your business, the party is increasingly trying to legislate its own sort of morality.

If as a Republican you want to see the government smaller, and taking less taxes, you have to be willing to vote democratic when your party has f*cked up.

The next President, regardless of party, MUST raise taxes or the dollar will become worthless...more so than it is now, even with China working hard to artificially prop it up. We are recklessly overspending and under-collecting right now.

Also, I think the central issue this election is not social programs, but the war in Iraq. I think people's stance on war will be the biggest deciding factor. If you think the war in Iraq is necessary and keeping you safe, you'll vote McCain. If you don't, you'll vote democratic.

[chunko]

Originally Posted by TallTexan

I would hope that if the phone rang in the middle of the night with a problem in the world, Obama would not make another bonehead move.

Glad to see the Hilary campaign his hitting home with you.

Originally Posted by TallTexan

This guy is a robot built by the media and when all his history comes out, he will start shorting out.

Romney is out of the race.