does not deserve to be president

[Kronos1965]

The MIG 25 and SU 25's are cold war era fighters that were obsolete in the 1980's.

Yes, they can do damage and deliver a stand off missile. As a weapons platform, they were good.

They would make a great addition to a museum...

So your assertion that because they are there, WMD's are also buried...and not one Iraqi has ratted them out for a reward?

So let's say that "things" moved out of Iraq and across the border.

Whose colossal screw up should we give credit to for...

A. Not conducting better surveillance at the borders before the start of aggression? I mean, Iraq did the same thing in the Gulf War. It's not like we didn't know this.

B. Not collecting proof via media like we did in the Gulf War? Clearly our capabilities have improved since then.

C. Unveiling the "Axis of Evil" that would clearly be proven if WMD existed?

WMD could very well exist but GWB failed to build the case beyond rhetoric and classic Republican scapegoating...

[chunko]

Originally Posted by TallTexan

I don't like everything GW does either, but at least he stepped up to the plate.

You talk as though him "stepping up to the plate" was better than him doing nothing...it was much much worse.

I agree...war is never pretty and there have been many cases where war was ugly, painful, but very neccessary to the survival of our country. but that doesn't exclude the possibility that some wars just plain, flat out are wrong.

The executive branch cherry picked evidence, right before an election, with our country in post 9-11 panic mode...in order to get us in Iraq.

f**ck 'em.

[SpiritOne]

You guys act like he is a hero, like he has stamped out terrorism and made the world fear America.

The fact is, there are more terrorists in Iraq now, than there ever have been before. And the result of our war has created legions more terrorists than already existed. The world doesn't fear America, they laugh at us. They assume that because we elected this guy, we all must be the same kind of goose stepping morons. Every time a terrorists kill a US Citizen, is a day the terrorists win. Especially if that citizen is a 19 year old kid who was just looking for some college money.

I supported the invasion. My president said he had hard evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. We were all focuses on Afghanistan and he said, now we need to strike Iraq. Coming out of the Marines just a year before, and working in the intelligence department, I am fully aware of the technology at our disposal for information gathering. If my president says they have weapons of mass destruction, it MUST be true! Because what kind of president would lie to the entire world and start a war of aggression against another country just because he wanted to? A bad one, apparently.

4000 lives lost. 30,000 Servicemen forever disabled by war. Hundreds of thousands more seen things they should never have to see. And those are just the American numbers. What about our allies? The Canadians are taking the fight to Afghanistan, the place we SHOULD be, and they have lost more than 4000 people in Afghanistan. What about the Iraqi people? Are they better off? How many hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's have been killed?

Was Saddam a bad guy? Yes
Was the UN dragging their feet over Iraq? Yes
Did he need to be removed from power? Yes
Did we need to start a war, invade a country and kill tons of people to satisfy our presidents ego trip? Hell the **** no!

Bush is hated because he has been the man in charge, the man responsible for sending this country into ruin. He has no clue what he is doing, and he is doing it with our tax dollars and our lives. He is a walking joke. The only nice thing I can say about him is he has a very lovely wife. I don't know how in the hell he landed her. She is smart, elegant and an overall pleasure to hear speak. Opposites attract I guess?

The planes in the sand thing is cool though. Hope they don't expect them to fly again without a LOT of maintenance.

[matthews]

+1 to both

[TallTexan]

Originally Posted by SpiritOne

You guys act like he is a hero, like he has stamped out terrorism and made the world fear America.

The fact is, there are more terrorists in Iraq now, than there ever have been before. And the result of our war has created legions more terrorists than already existed. The world doesn't fear America, they laugh at us. They assume that because we elected this guy, we all must be the same kind of goose stepping morons. Every time a terrorists kill a US Citizen, is a day the terrorists win. Especially if that citizen is a 19 year old kid who was just looking for some college money.

I supported the invasion. My president said he had hard evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. We were all focuses on Afghanistan and he said, now we need to strike Iraq. Coming out of the Marines just a year before, and working in the intelligence department, I am fully aware of the technology at our disposal for information gathering. If my president says they have weapons of mass destruction, it MUST be true! Because what kind of president would lie to the entire world and start a war of aggression against another country just because he wanted to? A bad one, apparently.

4000 lives lost. 30,000 Servicemen forever disabled by war. Hundreds of thousands more seen things they should never have to see. And those are just the American numbers. What about our allies? The Canadians are taking the fight to Afghanistan, the place we SHOULD be, and they have lost more than 4000 people in Afghanistan. What about the Iraqi people? Are they better off? How many hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's have been killed?

Was Saddam a bad guy? Yes
Was the UN dragging their feet over Iraq? Yes
Did he need to be removed from power? Yes
Did we need to start a war, invade a country and kill tons of people to satisfy our presidents ego trip? Hell the **** no!

Bush is hated because he has been the man in charge, the man responsible for sending this country into ruin. He has no clue what he is doing, and he is doing it with our tax dollars and our lives. He is a walking joke. The only nice thing I can say about him is he has a very lovely wife. I don't know how in the hell he landed her. She is smart, elegant and an overall pleasure to hear speak. Opposites attract I guess?

The planes in the sand thing is cool though. Hope they don't expect them to fly again without a LOT of maintenance.

Where were you heroes when Clinton was allowing our soldiers, sailors and marines to be blown up in ships, barracks and buildings and did nothing! He shot a round off at a building in the desert. You did not say anything then, he was your hero. If you looked up the word incompentent in the dictionary, Clintons name would be first. Bush might be somewhere down the list below Jimmy Carter and Johnson. You say Bush lied to you? Have you listened to the tapes of Clinton, both of them, the dem congress, and 80% of the democratic operatives claiming that Iraq had WMD's. They did not say they thought he had em, he had em. Where is your disgust at them. How about the Britts, Isralies, hell even the French and they would not fight anybody but they were pisse-d too.

You can't see it cause you don't want to see it. Your ideology only lets you see what Bush and the nasty old Republications did. What else is new. Third party, we have one now. I belong to it. It is called '' independents''. Picking between the Repubs and the Dems to vote for is like having one bullet and two grizzley bears comming at you. Best you can do is shoot the one that looks like he could do the most damage.

[54warrior]

I just wanted to be reply 800 to this thread!!

EDIT, but I guess I'm not, lol

[daptech]

OK......now to Iraq
-
I get tired hearing this crap that the Surge is working.
Why is the Surge working........is the Surge working.
What happened to the Enemy?.........have they all been killed?
have they all decided to be nice guys? have they all gone on vacation?
No, they have just decided to lay low for some time & continue
the fight at a time of THEIR choosing. Largely, the Enemy controls
the battlefield & the US responds.......not a good situation
for any military.

[TallTexan]

Originally Posted by daptech

OK......now to Iraq
-
I get tired hearing this crap that the Surge is working.
Why is the Surge working........is the Surge working.
What happened to the Enemy?.........have they all been killed?
have they all decided to be nice guys? have they all gone on vacation?
No, they have just decided to lay low for some time & continue
the fight at a time of THEIR choosing. Largely, the Enemy controls
the battlefield & the US responds.......not a good situation
for any military.

The enemy is hoping Obama gets elected. Hill is their next choice. I bet in a hole somewhere in Afghanistan, there is a cave with a Obama sticker hanging on the rock. Probably inside on the internet on TT. Alright, which one of you is him?

[37L1]

Originally Posted by daptech

OK......now to Iraq
-
Largely, the Enemy controls
the battlefield & the US responds.......not a good situation
for any military.

You're kidding, right?

[chunko]

Originally Posted by TallTexan

The enemy is hoping Obama gets elected. Hill is their next choice. I bet in a hole somewhere in Afghanistan, there is a cave with a Obama sticker hanging on the rock. Probably inside on the internet on TT. Alright, which one of you is him?

No, I bet he's hoping for 4 more years of bush...We're nowhere close to catching Osama thanks to the Iraq diversion...

Now thanks to a failing economic policy, and improper regulation...foreigners are buying our major financial institutions.

Yay, we're now well on our way to being owned by the middle east and China...

Thank god Bush isn't getting a BJ from an intern though.

[Kronos1965]

Originally Posted by daptech

OK......now to Iraq
-
I get tired hearing this crap that the Surge is working.
Why is the Surge working........is the Surge working.
What happened to the Enemy?.........have they all been killed?
have they all decided to be nice guys? have they all gone on vacation?
No, they have just decided to lay low for some time & continue
the fight at a time of THEIR choosing. Largely, the Enemy controls
the battlefield & the US responds.......not a good situation
for any military.

The Surge works because more troops are active but nature hates a void and as soon as they leave, something will take their place and that will be local militias sponsoring terrorist activities causing chaos.

It's like putting a spot light on your back porch one humid July day. You'll see the ****roaches vanish because of the light but that doesn't mean they're gone.

And more troops in a situation in which the aims of both combatants is asymmetrical means that the strategy won't work. Terrorists are simply trying to outlast the occupying force and snipe at it with raids and sniper attacks. The US military is trying to hold positions and raid in hopes of weeding out the terrorists...when's the last time you saw spot-weeding your own yard work?

Stop the incentive for terrorists to be there and you stop this cycle. Secure the borders, stabilize the government, empower the people to ferret out their enemies, and finally, hold talks with the various religious groups so that they see the benefit of coming together instead of killing one another.

The last one alone is the most difficult because the kind of hate each has has been going on for centuries and the only common thread they have is when there is an outsider present...

[TallTexan]

Originally Posted by daptech

OK......now to Iraq
-
I get tired hearing this crap that the Surge is working.
Why is the Surge working........is the Surge working.
What happened to the Enemy?.........have they all been killed?
have they all decided to be nice guys? have they all gone on vacation?
No, they have just decided to lay low for some time & continue
the fight at a time of THEIR choosing. Largely, the Enemy controls
the battlefield & the US responds.......not a good situation
for any military.

The enemy controls the time and day he dies. When he comes out to play, he dies. These guys are terrorists. They hide with the women and children and come out and plant bombs or shoot and run. Heck, I would feel safer walking in Bagdad at night than I would walking in some areas in Detroit, LA, Chicago and a few others. I travel sometimes at night and will not get off the freeways at night in some cities. Only differenced is they don't shoot RPG's, yet.

[chunko]

Originally Posted by 37L1

You're kidding, right?

Perhaps he meant to say the enemy is defining the battle field...

As soon as the enemy defines a battlefield, our military swiftly kicks there ***...problem as...where is the battlefield. Today it's here tomorrow its there...

Guerrilla warfare is difficult to stop unless you're willing to:

Kill everyone - Innocent bystander? No such thing (difficult to win hearts and minds this way)

-or-

Overwhelming occupying force in association with complete and udder totalitarian military rule. (do what we say, or die...and we have the numbers to back this up). This works, but its difficult to sell to the Americans because we'd need about double our current force (a draft) and its still a tough way to win hearts and minds of the people because they trade one military dictator (sadam) for us (although our goal is to only temporarily be a totalitarian dictator for sake of stability during rebuilding). Now this method can work, it worked in Japan and Germany...but those countries weren't ripe for a civil war when we took them over so it was easier for them to see the benefits of joining us rather than fighting us.

/book.

[TallTexan]

Originally Posted by adavis99

No, I bet he's hoping for 4 more years of bush...We're nowhere close to catching Osama thanks to the Iraq diversion...

Now thanks to a failing economic policy, and improper regulation...foreigners are buying our major financial institutions.

Yay, we're now well on our way to being owned by the middle east and China...

Thank god Bush isn't getting a BJ from an intern though.

Oh boy, I knew you would bring that up! One BJ and he can never live it down. Leave the poor guy alone and just discuss his record. ***Wait a minute, better talk about the BJ's. His record sucks too.

[chunko]

Originally Posted by TallTexan

Oh boy, I knew you would bring that up! One BJ and he can never live it down. Leave the poor guy alone and just discuss his record. ***Wait a minute, better talk about the BJ's. His record sucks too.

I talked about his record in my next post.