does not deserve to be president

[daptech]

Originally Posted by 37L1

You're kidding, right?

NOT AT ALL
The Enemy chooses when & where to fight........& by fight
I mean fight as a terrorist...........not fight by the US definition.
-
Ah crap, I see we're back on Clinton.
I'm still waiting for someone to ask Chelsea what she
thinks of her father getting a BJ from Monica.
I hated Clinton & I hate Bush..........I'm just a hater.

[37L1]

Originally Posted by daptech

NOT AT ALL
The Enemy chooses when & where to fight........& by fight
I mean fight as a terrorist...........not fight by the US definition.

That's not exactly "controlling the battlefield."

They don't always choose when or where to fight either. They cannot gather in any significant number nor are they able to hold territory.

By using your definition, can we assume that criminals control the battlefield in the United States? Since they choose when and where to commit crime.

So I conclude you are wrong but you already knew that.

Less hyperbole and more facts please.

[daptech]

Originally Posted by 37L1

..................................

So I conclude you are wrong but you already knew that.

.

.and I conclude you are a smart azz & you already new that
ban me A-hole ........it means nothing to me

[37L1]

Originally Posted by daptech

.and I conclude you are a smart azz & you already new that
ban me A-hole ........it means nothing to me

Gee such hostility and then resorting to name calling. So much for an intellectual exchange of ideas and opinions. So I said you were wrong and you get fired up over that?

Your response was uncalled for.

You don't have to go away mad but you do have to go away.

7 days in the penalty box.

[TallTexan]

Funny how we can talk about these old trucks and how fast they can run and which color is the best and who has the worst problems and seem to still get along. As soon as politics and religion enters the conversation, all heck breaks out. I don't know exactly what all that means but this country is much more divided than any other time in the 60 years I have been around. I don't think it was this devided during the Vietnam war. I think the real problem is that politics and religion have become one and the same. Folks that hate religion also hate the republicans because they feel the republicans represent religion. So the atheists mainly b ecome democrats along with the anti-war groups, socialist groups, gay groups and others I probably am not aware of. Repubs of course attract most Christians because of their support of anti-abortion groups, smaller government , less taxes, pro military and others I do not know of.

It sounds almost like the talk during the Civil War except the differences were not the same. I am most surprised at how accurate the bible in Revelation is. When I read about how some would turn against Christians in the end time and the things that happens later, I thought that this could never happen. I can now accept that in todays world there are some who could easily fill that role. No sermon here, just am amazed every day to watch this world go by.

[bbomar]

Originally Posted by 37L1

7 days in the penalty box.

[SpiritOne]

Originally Posted by TallTexan

Funny how we can talk about these old trucks and how fast they can run and which color is the best and who has the worst problems and seem to still get along. As soon as politics and religion enters the conversation, all heck breaks out.

Yes, but that is to be expected. Religion has ALWAYS been a polarizing discussion with people of different faiths. Politics is much of the same. However, where some people get frustrated, I tend to enjoy the debate. Sometimes I let it get too personal, and thats when I have to back away.

Originally Posted by TallTexan

Repubs of course attract most Christians because of their support of anti-abortion groups, smaller government , less taxes, pro military and others I do not know of.

See here is where I really wish republican voters would poke their heads out a little bit. GOP candidates sit down and talk about god, and religion, and simpler times and gain legions of followings. But look at the voting record. Republicans aren't about good christian values, Republicans are the private party for Big Business. When a republican votes in the senate, he doesn't care about the little guy, he cares about how fat company A just made his wallet.

Small Government? We have more government now than ever before. Do Democrats like large government PROGRAMS, for the most part yes, but you have benefited from large democratic government programs regardless of if you believe it or not. Social Security may be a mess now, but you can't deny that it has helped Millions of older folks pay the bills and make it so they don't have work. Big democratic PROGRAM.

Less Taxes? For whom? I paid more in taxes the last 2 years than I have any other previous time. I suppose thats because I don't make more than $200,000/year. Because thats where the GWB tax cuts start. They also cut taxes on big business. Does that help the economy? Not really, they don't lower their prices now that they don't have to spend as much in taxes, they just enjoy a larger profit. The real problem here though is, our government makes its spending money through our tax dollars. Weather we spend that money on illegal immigrants or the Iraq war, we can't cut taxes dramatically WHILE increasing spending. Thats like getting your salary cut, and going out and buying a new truck. Eventually your not going to be able to pay your bills.

Pro Military? I will concede this fact on two Republican Presidents. Ronald Regan and George Bush Sr. Those guys were more pro military than our current president. GWB Jr is continuously cutting the funding for the VA DURING A WAR!!! He is sending men and women into a hostile country and asking them fight. Yet when they get injured these men and women are coming home to a horribly underfunded VA that can't give them the help they need. We have over 30,000 Soldiers injured severely in this war and they aren't getting the care they need. Anyone remember that news reporter that was in the Humvee who was crippled? Army doctors told him he would never again be able to walk or do things on his own. With the right medical care he is walking and may have decent life ahead of him. Unfortunately the soldiers in the Humvee with him are being treated by the Army doctors, who can't utilize the same tools to help those guys and they are suffering. Pro military? Hardly.

[chunko]

Originally Posted by TallTexan

I think the real problem is that politics and religion have become one and the same. Folks that hate religion also hate the republicans because they feel the republicans represent religion. So the atheists mainly b ecome democrats along with the anti-war groups, socialist groups, gay groups and others I probably am not aware of. Repubs of course attract most Christians because of their support of anti-abortion groups, smaller government , less taxes, pro military and others I do not know of.

It sounds almost like the talk during the Civil War except the differences were not the same. I am most surprised at how accurate the bible in Revelation is. When I read about how some would turn against Christians in the end time and the things that happens later, I thought that this could never happen. I can now accept that in todays world there are some who could easily fill that role. No sermon here, just am amazed every day to watch this world go by.

The problem is, democrats are good, in that they bend over less to big business (less...being the key word), understand that the leader of the free world should provide certain basic services to all its citizens, and understands that separation of church of state is important.

Of course, the democrats fail us by assuming gun control = crime control, assuming welfare is a reasonable way to ensure everyone gets basic services, and providing way too many handouts which effectively legislate laziness.

Republicans are good in that the understand a strong military keeps us free, that in general a smaller government is a better government, and that owning a gun doesn't make you a criminal.

Of course they fail us by (as of late) spending more than the democrats, pandering to the religous right, and placing the interests of the very rich above the masses.

Why can't we have the best of both worlds?:

in that they bend over less to big business (less...being the key word), understand that the leader of the free world should provide certain basic services to all its citizens, and understands that separation of church of state is important. understand a strong military keeps us free, that in general a smaller government is a better government, and that owning a gun doesn't make you a criminal.

If only we could take certain hot topics like gay marriage, abortion, etc. and have the supreme court say once and for all, it's a state issue. We could focus on more important topics at the national level.

[54warrior]

Originally Posted by SpiritOne

Less Taxes? For whom? I paid more in taxes the last 2 years than I have any other previous time. I suppose thats because I don't make more than $200,000/year. Because thats where the GWB tax cuts start. They also cut taxes on big business. Does that help the economy? Not really, they don't lower their prices now that they don't have to spend as much in taxes, they just enjoy a larger profit. The real problem here though is, our government makes its spending money through our tax dollars. Weather we spend that money on illegal immigrants or the Iraq war, we can't cut taxes dramatically WHILE increasing spending. Thats like getting your salary cut, and going out and buying a new truck. Eventually your not going to be able to pay your bills.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008
Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250

[SpiritOne]

Originally Posted by 54warrior

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008
Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250

Read my post again. I didn't say I was paying more taxes now than in the Clinton years, I said I was paying more taxes now than I was 2 years ago.

Even though the truth is, I AM paying more taxes than I was in the Clinton years, but I was in the Marines when Clinton was president, and since I maxed out as a Cpl, E4 pay, I think I made less money per year than I am paying taxes now. So thats an unfair comparison.

[TallTexan]

Originally Posted by SpiritOne

Yes, but that is to be expected. Religion has ALWAYS been a polarizing discussion with people of different faiths. Politics is much of the same. However, where some people get frustrated, I tend to enjoy the debate. Sometimes I let it get too personal, and thats when I have to back away.



See here is where I really wish republican voters would poke their heads out a little bit. GOP candidates sit down and talk about god, and religion, and simpler times and gain legions of followings. But look at the voting record. Republicans aren't about good christian values, Republicans are the private party for Big Business. When a republican votes in the senate, he doesn't care about the little guy, he cares about how fat company A just made his wallet.

Small Government? We have more government now than ever before. Do Democrats like large government PROGRAMS, for the most part yes, but you have benefited from large democratic government programs regardless of if you believe it or not. Social Security may be a mess now, but you can't deny that it has helped Millions of older folks pay the bills and make it so they don't have work. Big democratic PROGRAM.

Less Taxes? For whom? I paid more in taxes the last 2 years than I have any other previous time. I suppose thats because I don't make more than $200,000/year. Because thats where the GWB tax cuts start. They also cut taxes on big business. Does that help the economy? Not really, they don't lower their prices now that they don't have to spend as much in taxes, they just enjoy a larger profit. The real problem here though is, our government makes its spending money through our tax dollars. Weather we spend that money on illegal immigrants or the Iraq war, we can't cut taxes dramatically WHILE increasing spending. Thats like getting your salary cut, and going out and buying a new truck. Eventually your not going to be able to pay your bills.

Pro Military? I will concede this fact on two Republican Presidents. Ronald Regan and George Bush Sr. Those guys were more pro military than our current president. GWB Jr is continuously cutting the funding for the VA DURING A WAR!!! He is sending men and women into a hostile country and asking them fight. Yet when they get injured these men and women are coming home to a horribly underfunded VA that can't give them the help they need. We have over 30,000 Soldiers injured severely in this war and they aren't getting the care they need. Anyone remember that news reporter that was in the Humvee who was crippled? Army doctors told him he would never again be able to walk or do things on his own. With the right medical care he is walking and may have decent life ahead of him. Unfortunately the soldiers in the Humvee with him are being treated by the Army doctors, who can't utilize the same tools to help those guys and they are suffering. Pro military? Hardly.

You paid more taxes under Bush? No way, you might have made more money under Bush and therefore paid more. Post above proves that. For a hundred years, it has been proven that cut taxes on bussiness and bussiness hires people. At the end of the day, the government makes more in taxes. Bush cut spending on the VA, give me a break. Bush has no money, period. The congress, as they did in the last month, brings the VA in front of them and decides how much money they get. President can holler and scream but it is a congressional job. I go to the VA hospitals and I know the differences in the last several years. Before you waited forever for an appointment . Now I am scheduled and go and get seen within reasonable time limits. I am also treated with respect. Republicans tend to fight for Christian values because the dems are always trying to get religion, not out of the schools, but out of the nation. When I went to school, as did the kids for the first 160 years, had prayer in schools and no one fought to throw Christmas out of the public view like today. Most folks under 40 have no idea how things were and think the anti-Christian world today has always been there. You say you want separation of church and state but your group wants crosses removed from churches, Christmas manger scenes removed cause it hurts the eyes of athiests. The arguement that athiests only want it out of schools and politics is BS. The want Christians gone, period. So the fight begins. Christians will not be pushed around by athiests and their supporters, fight they want , fight they get. This fight goes all the way back to the death of Christ, they hated him then and now. As for Social Security, folks my age paid in to SS and your heroes pulled all our money out and put it into the general fund. That is why we are in trouble, the illegals and the non workers now get our SS money. So now we have to depend on young guys like you to pay our SS because your heroes stole ours. Things are not like you say, just how you see it.

[54warrior]

Originally Posted by TallTexan

You paid more taxes under Bush? No way, you might have made more money under Bush and therefore paid more. Post above proves that. For a hundred years, it has been proven that cut taxes on bussiness and bussiness hires people. At the end of the day, the government makes more in taxes. Bush cut spending on the VA, give me a break. Bush has no money, period. The congress, as they did in the last month, brings the VA in front of them and decides how much money they get. President can holler and scream but it is a congressional job. I go to the VA hospitals and I know the differences in the last several years. Before you waited forever for an appointment . Now I am scheduled and go and get seen within reasonable time limits. I am also treated with respect. Republicans tend to fight for Christian values because the dems are always trying to get religion, not out of the schools, but out of the nation. When I went to school, as did the kids for the first 160 years, had prayer in schools and no one fought to throw Christmas out of the public view like today. Most folks under 40 have no idea how things were and think the anti-Christian world today has always been there. You say you want separation of church and state but your group wants crosses removed from churches, Christmas manger scenes removed cause it hurts the eyes of athiests. The arguement that athiests only want it out of schools and politics is BS. The want Christians gone, period. So the fight begins. Christians will not be pushed around by athiests and their supporters, fight they want , fight they get. This fight goes all the way back to the death of Christ, they hated him then and now. As for Social Security, folks my age paid in to SS and your heroes pulled all our money out and put it into the general fund. That is why we are in trouble, the illegals and the non workers now get our SS money. So now we have to depend on young guys like you to pay our SS because your heroes stole ours. Things are not like you say, just how you see it.

Excellent post. Wish that I was as well versed as you are!!!

[rholland]

I just wish that people had sense enough to know that people, individuals, pay all the taxes. To businesses, taxes are just another expense to be rolled into the cost of their product or service.

Raw Data: Share of Individual Income Tax (in %)
Income Category 1977 1979 1981 1983 1985 1987 1989 1991 1993 1995 1999
Highest 20% --68-- 67 --66 ---68--- 68 ---72 ---72 ---72---75 ---77 ---79
Fourth 20% ---20 ---20 ---20 ---20 ---19 ---18---17---18---17---16---16
Middle 20% ---10--- 10--- 10--- 10 ---9 ---8 ---9 ---9 ---8 ---8--- 7
Second 20% ---3--- 4 ---4 ---3 ---3--- 3--- 3 ---2 ---2 ---1 ---1
Lowest 20% ---0 ---0 ---0 ---0 ---0 ---0 (-1) (-1) (-1) (-2) (-2)
All Families 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100

Top 1% -20 -19 -17 -20- 21- 24- 24 -23 -27 -29 -29
Top 5% -38 -37 -36- 38- 39- 43- 44- 42 -46 -49 -50
Top 10% -50 -50- 49- 51- 52- 56- 56- 55- 59- 61 -63

[chunko]

Originally Posted by TallTexan

You paid more taxes under Bush? No way, you might have made more money under Bush and therefore paid more. Post above proves that. For a hundred years, it has been proven that cut taxes on bussiness and bussiness hires people. At the end of the day, the government makes more in taxes.

Duh. We all know that the deficit is gone thanks to bush decreasing spending like a good little conservative, and cutting taxes to increase revenues.

Right? I mean for several years the republicans controlled both congress and the top seat...so we should be just peachy.

I wonder then...how do we explain that the deficit has doubled since Bush took office...I wonder.

I explain it like this.

You're wrong.

[SpiritOne]

Originally Posted by TallTexan

You paid more taxes under Bush? No way, you might have made more money under Bush and therefore paid more. Post above proves that.

Please read before you post. I am paying more taxes today, right now, than I paid just a couple years ago, UNDER BUSH, while still in the same tax bracket. The only change, was his tax cut for the wealthy, that did little to help middle class Americans.

Originally Posted by TallTexan

For a hundred years, it has been proven that cut taxes on bussiness and bussiness hires people. At the end of the day, the government makes more in taxes.

Show me figures, because all I see is Exxon making record profits for an American Company.

Originally Posted by TallTexan

Bush cut spending on the VA, give me a break. Bush has no money, period. The congress, as they did in the last month, brings the VA in front of them and decides how much money they get. President can holler and scream but it is a congressional job.

The same morning your illustrious President Bush flew out to an Aircraft Carrier in a jump suit and said Mission accomplished, was the morning he cut VA funding by over 1/4. That was under a Republican Congress. If he didn't like it, he didn't have to sign it. The President DOES have veto power remember?

Originally Posted by TallTexan

I go to the VA hospitals and I know the differences in the last several years. Before you waited forever for an appointment . Now I am scheduled and go and get seen within reasonable time limits. I am also treated with respect.

I go to VA hospitals too. The People that work there are very friendly and respectful. It doesn't change the fact, their funding sucks. I also WORK in hospitals, and I can see the difference between a well funded private doctors hospital, a decently funded community hospital, and a poorly funded VA hospital. You see it from a patient side. I have the ability to see from both a patient side AND a vendor side. When the CT machine at a regular hospital goes down, they have a service contract they pay us to keep it fixed. When the CT at the VA hospital goes down, they have a minimal contract, that doesn't pay for parts, and when you produce a bill, they stall, and ask for discounts and site budget cuts as to the reason why they can't pay.

Originally Posted by TallTexan

Republicans tend to fight for Christian values because the dems are always trying to get religion, not out of the schools, but out of the nation.

Bull sh*t. Democrats go to church too. True, I personally am not a Christian, but I don't represent the entire liberal left, just as you don't represent the entire conservative right.

Yes, I want religion out of schools. I feel like religion in public schools holds back our children's learning. In states like Kansas where teachers are forced to read a statement about Intelligent Design while teaching the science of evolution, what the hell is that doing to kids? If you want to raise your child a christian, thats fine, this is a free country and you are more than granted that right by the constitution. In fact there are places you can take your child who will do everything in their power to help you. They are called Churches, maybe you have heard of these mystical places? There are even church funded schools that will teach your child all about the bible and its wonderful stories. Fell free to send your child there. But while in a publicly funded educational institution, we should be teaching FACTS.

Originally Posted by TallTexan

When I went to school, as did the kids for the first 160 years, had prayer in schools and no one fought to throw Christmas out of the public view like