As you can see, unrestricted gun ownership and use is not in the majority...
This was already hit on by someone else, and they did a great job. BTW I don't believe very many polls. They can't even fiqure out who is going to win the election and the poll are almost closed.
I think it is bad idea to correlate gun ownership and crime...for either side.
Lots of people own guns in Houston.
Few people own guns in Seattle.
I'd feel safer walking down most streets in Seattle without a gun, than in Houston with a gun. What does this mean? Nothing, just that owning a gun doesn't make you safe, and nor does living in a town without guns make you safe.
Believe it or not, social programs for poor kids (so they have a shot at education, and a non-criminal method of employment), along with birth control and low unemployment really keep you safe...because they result in fewer people with nothing to lose who will kill your for your stuff (or for fun, or to earn repsect, etc.)
Point blank, if I wanted any of you gun owners dead, it would be very easy to kill you (or your family, or what ever else you hold dear)...you think your gun keeps you safe? Your gun does not protect you from me. I just walk up behind when you're not expecting it, and pull the trigger. Whether or not you have a gun on your waist, hip, leg, hand, you will still be dead. What protects you from me, is that I don't want to kill you. So in my view, the key, is to minimize the number of people who would want to pull the trigger.
If you take away the guns, they'll just replace a gun, with a knife, or a bomb, or a CAR etc...
Very good point, I think Houston is a little bigger than Seattle, but I might be wrong. It has more to do with the mind set of the population than anything else.
I think gun safety in school would be a great idea. It will help with the parents that are scum bags, and don't teach their kids anything.
That is a fight I am actually looking forward to.
NRA wouldn't stand a chance if the liberals got motivated... the goal should be to appease the liberals concerns while protecting your rights. Trying to fight them head on is not wise.
It's just like people who are flamboyantly gay and their parades... not exactly the best way to win the hearts and minds of the conservatives who they need to win over to have more rights as couples...
Too often people just want to piss off their opposition instead of trying for middle ground.
Point blank, the people who want guns banned, and the people who want guns...all want the same thing...to be safe.
If we could start from there, we might get somewhere.
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NRA wouldn't stand a chance if the liberals got motivated... the goal should be to appease the liberals concerns while protecting your rights. Trying to fight them head on is not wise.
It's just like people who are flamboyantly gay and their parades... not exactly the best way to win the hearts and minds of the conservatives who they need to win over to have more rights as couples...
Too often people just want to piss off their opposition instead of trying for middle ground.
Point blank, the people who want guns banned, and the people who want guns...all want the same thing...to be safe.
If we could start from there, we might get somewhere.
The problem is if you give up something to appease them, they just move on to the next thing. We have to fight for the rights we have already lost, and not give in anymore. If we continue to give in we will lose anyway. This court case at the supreme court right now will settle lots of things, in my favor. It's not just the NRA, there are lots of other groups in the fight.
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Anyone here that thinks gun laws make you safe needs to go take a stroll in Washington, DC. Strict gun laws has only increased gun crime and a lot of it against the honest folks who have no guns. Any gun laws passed today only affect the honest people. Millions of guns already exist out there and the crooks will never register them or turn them in. Registering guns is the first step to take our guns away. Taking our guns only gives the bad guys the advantage. Your feeble attempts to convince all the rest of us that letting the liberals protect our guns only convinces me that you agree with their plan. Might talk about being a big hunter and a real gunslinger but you really are in on the plot. As far as someone being able to slip up on me and kill me any time he wants to, that takes a lot of guts, especially when I might be armed also and pop a cap in your arse. Cowards don't want me armed, they want to be the only one with a gun.
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Didn't anyone see the t-shirt that "jaws" was wearing in Happy Gilmore--"Guns don't kill people, I kill people"--or something to that effect? There is truth to that statement. Why do you think that the 9/11 terrorists attached NY and DC instead of Memphis, Jackson, MS, and Atlanta (besides the lack of important structures)? There are too many rednecks down here with more guns and knifes than them. The only reason that I don't carry a gun in my truck is that I work in a foreign trade zone and I don't want to forget to take it out of the truck on the wrong day. That is why I typically carry 3 knifes, one of which, I can flick open and throw or jab quicker than someone can react and pull a trigger.
Anyone here that thinks gun laws make you safe needs to go take a stroll in Washington, DC. Strict gun laws has only increased gun crime and a lot of it against the honest folks who have no guns. Any gun laws passed today only affect the honest people. Millions of guns already exist out there and the crooks will never register them or turn them in. Registering guns is the first step to take our guns away. Taking our guns only gives the bad guys the advantage. Your feeble attempts to convince all the rest of us that letting the liberals protect our guns only convinces me that you agree with their plan. Might talk about being a big hunter and a real gunslinger but you really are in on the plot. As far as someone being able to slip up on me and kill me any time he wants to, that takes a lot of guts, especially when I might be armed also and pop a cap in your arse. Cowards don't want me armed, they want to be the only one with a gun.
1. Are you talking to me (re: feeble attempts...) I think you might be speaking to someone else though.
2. DC is a perfect example of my point... it was a sh!thole with guns, and its a sh!thole now that they banned 'em. It wasn't safe when guns were legal, and it still aint safe now that they are not. Both sides are wrong when they say guns do/don't you make safe. It is the people, the community, that make a place safe.
3. It would not take guts to kill you. Sure, maybe in a fair fight, gunslinger wild west style. But to walk up behind and blow your brains out, I'd say you have a 1 in 100000000 chance of surviving if a moderately intelligent person decides they want you dead, and they are either patient, or not afraid of getting caught.
1. Are you talking to me (re: feeble attempts...) I think you might be speaking to someone else though.
2. DC is a perfect example of my point... it was a sh!thole with guns, and its a sh!thole now that they banned 'em. It wasn't safe when guns were legal, and it still aint safe now that they are not. Both sides are wrong when they say guns do/don't you make safe. It is the people, the community, that make a place safe.
3. It would not take guts to kill you. Sure, maybe in a fair fight, gunslinger wild west style. But to walk up behind and blow your brains out, I'd say you have a 1 in 100000000 chance of surviving if a moderately intelligent person decides they want you dead, and they are either patient, or not afraid of getting caught.
You are right AD, but with a gun I got a chance and you know it. That is what makes those little chills run up the back of your neck, knowing the other guy has one too. May even make you nervous enough to miss. Practicing shooting someone is easy, shooting someone is a whole new story. Thoughts run through your mind, did I put a round in the chamber? What if he don't go down and he comes up shooting? What if I miss? The mind plays a lot of tricks on you unless you are good at it.
Me with my Titan and you with your AR 15/Glock 20/.357 Magnum/30.06/M107
Who's going to win?
It all depends upon time and place doesn't it? Mindset and motivation of the individual?
Intent, tool, and opportunity = result.
Very few people drive cars with the intent to kill someone. Deaths by vehicle are the result of poor judgement and society has become desensitized to deaths in this category. Drunk driving gets temporary press when someone local gets killed and then when it doesn't happen for a long while, people forget.
Deaths by vehicle where inexperienced drivers are the reason are also overlooked because after driver's ed, a driver is forgotten in the system.
Deaths by vehicle in which someone acted in the heat of the moment to kill another are very rare comparatively.
Death by firearm happens with or without intent, shooting because of being inexperienced, shooting because of emotion, or shooting because a planned attack.
We won't stop people who have intent and a plan. They will get their firearms from too many sources.
We would like to believe that we will lower deaths through education. Just like driver's ed, it typically receives brief attention and then when no deaths occur from accidents, it is forgotten.
I certainly believe in education and think that gun safety should be taught as a part of after-school curricula. Guns, like sex, and cars are a part of our culture and we should start acknowledging it nistead of tabooing discussion.
Even if one believes that gun ownership is a right, time and place for its use should be regulated/monitored. Gun laws or measures that can identify when individuals cannot distinguish time and place to use a gun should be in place.
If you put a gun in every student's hands at VT or any other university, you could very well have stopped the killing spree that occurred.
You would also see an increase in deaths because of inexperienced owners, users who shot someone over taking their parking space, cuts in line, on a dare while under the influence, or other situations in which they used poor judgement.
Obama or Clintons strategies on gun controls for the most part seem steps to take a closer look at people who may not be responsible to have a firearm and use it in a manner that results in someone's death including their own.
The Government will never be able to take away guns from citizens because no politician would win election or any measure receive votes enough to pass it into law or sitting President would veto it or a Supreme Court could rule in unconstitutional.
Yes enforcing existing policies helps. Question is, what strategies could reduce unwanted deaths by firearms?
__________________
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. -- Will Rogers
Me with my Titan and you with your AR 15/Glock 20/.357 Magnum/30.06/M107
Who's going to win?
It all depends upon time and place doesn't it? Mindset and motivation of the individual?
Intent, tool, and opportunity = result.
Very few people drive cars with the intent to kill someone. Deaths by vehicle are the result of poor judgement and society has become desensitized to deaths in this category. Drunk driving gets temporary press when someone local gets killed and then when it doesn't happen for a long while, people forget.
Deaths by vehicle where inexperienced drivers are the reason are also overlooked because after driver's ed, a driver is forgotten in the system.
Deaths by vehicle in which someone acted in the heat of the moment to kill another are very rare comparatively.
Death by firearm happens with or without intent, shooting because of being inexperienced, shooting because of emotion, or shooting because a planned attack.
We won't stop people who have intent and a plan. They will get their firearms from too many sources.
We would like to believe that we will lower deaths through education. Just like driver's ed, it typically receives brief attention and then when no deaths occur from accidents, it is forgotten.
I certainly believe in education and think that gun safety should be taught as a part of after-school curricula. Guns, like sex, and cars are a part of our culture and we should start acknowledging it nistead of tabooing discussion.
Even if one believes that gun ownership is a right, time and place for its use should be regulated/monitored. Gun laws or measures that can identify when individuals cannot distinguish time and place to use a gun should be in place.
If you put a gun in every student's hands at VT or any other university, you could very well have stopped the killing spree that occurred.
You would also see an increase in deaths because of inexperienced owners, users who shot someone over taking their parking space, cuts in line, on a dare while under the influence, or other situations in which they used poor judgement.
Obama or Clintons strategies on gun controls for the most part seem steps to take a closer look at people who may not be responsible to have a firearm and use it in a manner that results in someone's death including their own.
The Government will never be able to take away guns from citizens because no politician would win election or any measure receive votes enough to pass it into law or sitting President would veto it or a Supreme Court could rule in unconstitutional.
Yes enforcing existing policies helps. Question is, what strategies could reduce unwanted deaths by firearms?
I think you would probably win, because I would have to hit a moving target approaching me fast with intent to kill. It would be very hard to do.
I agree with you on the education part completely.
I never said to arm every student, but every one that can pass a ccw course, and is over 21 should be allowed. Also the teachers that want to carry should be able to.
I don't think deaths would increase from the one's that are legally carrying. I am pretty sure I am right on this one.
Again please tell me what exactly are obama and clinton's plan to reduce illegal gun problems And who determines who should be allowed guns. Again gun ownership is a right that is about to be held up by the supreme court. How can someone be denied a right because they may do something. If this passes expect a huge slippery slope for everything in life that can hurt another person.
I can name a few things that would put a huge hurt on reducing unwanted deaths by firearms. One as you said education, but it should not be necessary except in only a few instances. Second stop letting people out of prison that commit a crime with a firearm. In almost every state if you commit a crime with a firearm it is supposed to be an automatic 10 years. Most of these people don't do a fourth of that time.
I can name a few things that would put a huge hurt on reducing unwanted deaths by firearms.
Like admitting we can't win the war on drugs...
Most people in prision are there for drug related crimes. We stop going after dealers and addicts and we could focus on violent offenders...
The war on drugs is a joke. We have to go after the drug demand...not the supply. As long as their is demand, suppliers will find a way. It's in our blood, it's capitalism...it's what we do.
You can't fight capitalism...just ask the Russians.
Most people in prision are there for drug related crimes. We stop going after dealers and addicts and we could focus on violent offenders...
The war on drugs is a joke. We have to go after the drug demand...not the supply. As long as their is demand, suppliers will find a way. It's in our blood, it's capitalism...it's what we do.
You can't fight capitalism...just ask the Russians.
WOoooooooooooooohooooooooooo.
Yet another thing we agree on. Marijuana needs to be made legal, there is no reason for it to be illegal.
05-13-2008, 12:27 PM
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