Ford and GM losing millions.

[bleedingbuddies]

3rd quarter reports were released a little while ago for GM.

GM reports $2.5B 3Q loss, says running out of cash - Yahoo! News

And fords...

Ford loses $5.8 billion in the third quarter - Earnings

Both companies want money from the government. Thoughts on this subject?

[chieflikalotapus]

i have already gave them thousands well at least ford. i bought 3 mustangs from them. as far as help from the government i say no... then we will see some crazy rebates from these companies

[bgbdwlf2500]

and nissan is doing how well?????? no reports dont mean they are doing good...

[Warp09]

Originally Posted by bgbdwlf2500

and nissan is doing how well?????? no reports dont mean they are doing good...

Calm down there bgbdwlf, lol. He isn't saying Nissan is good or bad, just looking at the reports Ford and GM released. Calm down there pal...

[Arachnid]

I say let them sink. If we bail them out, then how many others are going to be lining up? Where does it stop?

[bgbdwlf2500]

Originally Posted by Warp09

Calm down there bgbdwlf, lol. He isn't saying Nissan is good or bad, just looking at the reports Ford and GM released. Calm down there pal...

no im good, but the bottom line is ALL truck sales are down....seems the foreign guys know when to quit....

Originally Posted by Arachnid

I say let them sink. If we bail them out, then how many others are going to be lining up? Where does it stop?

and i agree to this, but nissan or anyone else wont be far behind...

[bestatchess]

Interesting situation. The original automaker pitch was that they needed loans so that they could retool to make alternative fuel cars. They had just closed a bunch of truck & SUV plants and oil was above $140 bbl in July.

Automakers Seek $50B In Loans From U.S., Industry Wants Help To Modernize Assembly Plants, Develop Fuel-Efficient Vehicles - CBS News


Now, oil is down around $60 and the hybrid tax credit is expiring at the end of the year.

Even at high oil prices in July, it was unclear whether purchase of a hybrid was a good deal for the consumer.

Overview - NADA Guides Company Information

So does the government need to bail out the automakers to produce hybrids that will be a bad deal for consumers if oil prices stay at $60?

Or are oil prices going way up soon?

Credit Suisse forecasts $60 through 2009 and $80 through 2010

It seems to me that not too many people will want to buy a premium priced hybrid if those projections are correct.

So will the car makers be producing (with taxpayer assistance) a bunch of expensive hybrids that nobody wants to buy?

Will the government need to force people to buy hybrids by taxing gas back up to $5?

[bgbdwlf2500]

Originally Posted by bestatchess

Interesting situation. The original automaker pitch was that they needed loans so that they could retool to make alternative fuel cars. They had just closed a bunch of truck & SUV plants and oil was above $140 bbl in July.

Automakers Seek $50B In Loans From U.S., Industry Wants Help To Modernize Assembly Plants, Develop Fuel-Efficient Vehicles - CBS News


Now, oil is down around $60 and the hybrid tax credit is expiring at the end of the year.

Even at high oil prices in July, it was unclear whether purchase of a hybrid was a good deal for the consumer.

Overview - NADA Guides Company Information

So does the government need to bail out the automakers to produce hybrids that will be a bad deal for consumers if oil prices stay at $60?

Or are oil prices going way up soon?

Credit Suisse forecasts $60 through 2009 and $80 through 2010

It seems to me that not too many people will want to buy a premium priced hybrid if those projections are correct.

So will the car makers be producing (with taxpayer assistance) a bunch of expensive hybrids that nobody wants to buy?

Will the government need to force people to buy hybrids by taxing gas back up to $5?

id bet money that the people that bought hybrids have enough money to support the suvs that they have

[royr]

Now - where is a good flux capacitor when you really need one? Coffee grounds and banana peels would then cost $5 a gallon with the tax they would add to them! If people want it - they will tax it - and if they NEED it - they will tax it even more. Such is the way of big government in action.- Peace - LOL!

[srvfan]

They should be allowed to die from an economic perspective. they have had 30 years to try and figure out how to make fun profitable small and midsize cars and they have not been able to do it. Clearly you could see the handwriting on the wall in the 90's and they did nothing to enhance their cars they just sucked up th eprofits from SUV and truck sales.

Chrysler and GM merger???? what a joke that's like 2 drunk guys stagering out of a bar saying they'll drive the other one home.

The GM Lamda platform SUV gets good reviews imagine how much better it would be if they didn't waste money coming up with 1 for each division and advertising dollars for each division. Buick,Saturn and possible Pontiac must die for GM to survive. They screwed up Saab big time but could probably hawk that to somebody to generate some cash.

for years Ford of Europe MAKES money and has award winning cars. Why haven't they imported tham here? Their cars are ugly,and boring. Drive a new Honda Accord and go drive the new midsize Ford, Ford needs huge discounts to move their product. Imagine how strong they could be if they could simply sell the car for what Honda can.

End fleet discounts. They sell their cars for squat to rental agencies and turn them every 6 months! they make basicall 0 profit on these deals. That in turn hurts the sales of their new cars to consumers because you've got a zillion low mileage clean used versions on dealer lots. They are shooting themselves in the foot with these deals

They should not get a handout a loan maybe but not a handout. Even a loan is questionable. if i was in Congress I'd be asking those guys. Ok let me drive your prototype and see how much better it is than a Camry or Accord and we'll give you the cash to retool. What??? it's not better ? it won't be available for 3 years??? Sorry no money for you!

I run a small buisness I have to watch the bottom line and be better than the competition everyday. I have to compete against guys with lower costs or else i don't eat. Nobody is giving me a loan for these tuff times so why should they get one. With a couple million in cash i could make things much more profitable. I actually have a written down honest to goodness plan that makes sense,probably alot more than theirs does. think my congress guy is coughing up some money? doubt it.

[apocalypse]

maybe they should just stop making the same car is 3 different brands

[Kronos1965]

We are starting on a slippery slope bailing out companies because of the economic impact their loss would have.

They make bad decisions and then ask for help.

We knew this in 2006.
Fact check: Are American cars really that bad? - Feb. 3, 2006

American car companies cannot change quickly with the times.
Why do American cars SUCK? — The Garage

Side comment-just like our government and look what's happening...

[rholland]

How does the American Tax payer feel about picking up the retirement and health care cost for retired GM workers.

General Motors legacy costs
By Lou Ann Hammond

"What is good for General Motors is good for America - Chairman and CEO, Charlie Wilson, 1955.
Today this could be,
What is true for General Motors is true for America.

Are companies obligated to take care of ex-employees till they die? If there is no job guarantee, why should your life be guaranteed? What does a company do when they have negotiated unsustainable obligations?

A couple of weeks ago Pulitzer prize automotive writer Dan Neil wrote a column blasting Bob Lutz and Rick Wagoner, saying, basically, that the Pontiac G6 was another reason General Motors was going to go to metal heaven and that the top guy should go with it. I will give Mr. Neil that General Motors isn’t hitting the mark on some of their cars, especially when they are compared by price in their competitive segment.

Every car company has product cycle problems and many have ridden them out. General Motors has a problem that eats away at their profit like no other company, it is their legacy costs. These problems have been gathering steam since 1950 when negotiations for pension and healthcare started, long before Bob Lutz or Rick Wagoner were in power.

General Motors marketshare is going down and has been for some time. Ford has the same problems. With every new car manufacturer coming into America, including China soon, their marketshare may continue to go down. According to Stefan Weinman spokesman for General Motors, General Motors spends $5.2 billion on health care for 1.1 million people, equaling $4,727 annually per person. People can buy cheaper cars and get the same value without the health care costs of $1,525 built into every vehicle made. Add another $675 per car for pension costs. Other car companies may have these problems, but not for some time. BMW, Nissan, Toyota and Mercedes all build cars here in the United States with American employees, but those employees are new and very few have retired.

General Motors is the world’s largest automaker, selling nearly 9 million cars and trucks worldwide last year. It is the third-largest business in the United States, with revenue of $193 billion last year. Despite the incentives that kept sales high during America’s economic slowdown, General Motors is losing marketshare and people are saying it is because their cars are no good. They are saying that the Big Three will have troubles because of the economic and production gaps between the non-union assembly lines set up South of the Mason Dixon line, save for a couple of plants, by Japanese and European competitors. They are saying that General Motors is too concerned about their big cars and not as concerned about smaller more fuel efficient vehicles. They are saying that there are too many cars in general and that General Motors could get rid of a couple of lines.

General Motors oldest retiree will be 110 years old this year. The employee worked for GM for 32 years and has been collecting pension and health benefits for 47 years. If this employee dies and leaves behind a spouse, the spouse will get a partial part of his benefits.

General Motors reported its worst financial quarter in 13 years on Tuesday, posting a net loss of $1.10 billion, or $1.95 per share. In the first quarter of 2004, GM earned a profit of $1.2 billion, or $2.12 per share. According to General Motors it needs to be a 28-29 percent marketshare company to survive. They claim that 98 percent of their costs are fixed costs. The 1.2 billion profit was made from selling product helped along by incentives. If that 5.2 billion health care cost weren’t there General Motors would report a gain for the year.

[GRAYGHOST]

Maybe if ford would quit spending millions on there support of gay and lesbian causes, they would be able to put that back into the company. They also would not have the boycott on them from the AFA. Being from the South, I have heard a lot of people who currently own Fords say that they would never buy annother one. They even got a letter from all their Texas distributors begging them to quit because they were losing sales and they wouldnt do it. As for me, let them die on the vine! I cannot believe that the US auto industry didnt really learn from their own history. The only reason that Honda, Toyota, and Nissan(datsun), got a foothold in the US market was their lack of attention to MPG and quality. Here it is thirty years later and they are having to learn the same lesson all over again. If they lack the brainpower or the engeneering ability to make an exceptional alt energy vehicle then simply buy someone else out (like tesla) and manufactur them in mass to reduce the cost to within reason. I honestly think all of the big three are dead from the neck up!!!

[royr]

Painfully True! And Nice Bull Dog!