Who would you vote for President?

[03Tundra Lover]

Originally Posted by Farmer Fred

It's obvious Titan buyers are on average a bunch of Republicans. Glad I am not average.

We remember 9/11, yes, but what has 9/11 have to do with Iraq? A vote for Bush is a vote for Halliburton.

Condi Rice has an oil tanker named after her. The "president" of Afganistan is a consultant for Unocal. The Bush admin. flew Bin Ladin's family members out of the US on 9/12.

Proof! Do you have any proof to back up your claims! I think the majority of truck owners period are republicans. The democrats do not like us spending our own money on gas when we have vehicles that do not get 30+MPG.

[bighawaii]

proof? what proof? bush really had a good basis for invading iraq, oh thats right they lied about everything and then tried to pass the buck. want my evidence? does it matter? who need evidence when we can make it all up? btw, bush really is doing a great job with our economy, isnt in magnificent that at the rate hes blowing money in a country he didnt have any plan to stabilize after he invades it and cost us even more lives and money? hey we need more military funding we dont care that our childeren will have no SS. hey wth lets screw the old and make them spend a load before they can afford any drugs, oh lets also make it also so that medicare runs dry, our kids dont need it. didnt that magnificent tax break help the economy? i wouldnt doubt it help one a many here but for the middle class which is the backbone of our country, it doest do squat. jobs are leaving and bush's solution is........ yep, i really like bush's actions, such a great republican.

[tikigod]

Heres a spoof on Bush's current ad.

http://www.muchosucko.com/video-bushspoof.html

[Optimist]

[quote=bighawaii]proof? what proof? bush really had a good basis for invading iraq, oh thats right they lied about everything and then tried to pass the buck.

Here is my proof that you are wrong.
How convenient to say Bush lied.. How simple minded & forgetful. Since 93 we have cut back on intelligence gathering thus. Now if Bush lied so did the following, the difference is Bush had the conviction to do something about the intelligence provided.
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998.
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002.
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do." Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002.
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002.
"[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ..." Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.

[37L1]

Without taking any sides in this "debate", I have found that when people are emotionally involved with whatever position they are maintaining, that the following words are never more true:

"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

Simon and Garfunkle "The Boxer"

[Optimist]

I appreciate that sentiment 37L1, Guilty as charged.
I would like to add, opinions on the matter presupposes that the poster is somehow more knowledgeable, perhaps smarter, has info. you are not privy of & this comes off often as condescending.

I will keep my word and not post in this area again for the reason you mentioned, nor do I care to be viewed as somehow more informed or more importantly that you are less informed than I.

Respectfully,
me.

[Farmer Fred]

I adopted a new policy, to never visit this portion of the forum again… this will be my only post here but,

Among the many quotes Optimist lists (after promising to not post on this thread again, btw) is this one.

There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."

And where did this "unmistakable evidence" come from? Yep, the Bush administration. The cute PowerPoint presentation Powell gave the UN said the same things.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

I really like this one. They did deny Iraq that capacity, hence the total lack of WMDs found. The sanctions were working, unless the goal was to funnel billions to Halliburton and set up a military center in the middle east.

[tikigod]

Some people say they will avoid this thread, others put their hardcore opinion in. I relish the fact that we can all do this and that everyone is so passionate about it. Thats what makes our country so great, regardless of who is running the country. The general principles of our country give us the right to say all this **** and express our opinion to others. In some countrys (for example n. korea) you can be killed for publicly putting down the leader of your nation. We very rarely see how see how good we have it here. Most nations around the world have century's of history behind them and we being one of the youngest (only around sense the 1600's) have grown faster and bigger then most other nations around the world, we have alot to learn and alot more growing to do, but we have it pretty damn good. If we didnt we wouldnt have to keep closing our doors to people wanting to move here.
I feel this thread is great, in my opinion i cant have a solid stance on any topic unless i consider the opposing view, i cant shut my eyes to it becasue there may be some vaildity to it and it will help me getting a better view of the situation. Il feel that ill still come back to see the updates and and feel that in no way does it harm this site. Free speech is beautiful thing and ekool created the forum under those values. Keep the rants coming guys, im getting alot out of it. peace out.

[Half Shovel]

Originally Posted by SoldOnNissan

I'm a little bit radical. Even though I didn't write this, it pretty well sums it up for me.............

YOU CAN BE A DEMOCRAT - Virtually anyone can be a Democrat, but if you want to be a GOOD Democrat, here are some necessary prerequisites.

1. You have to believe the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding.

2. You have to believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th graders how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex.

3. You have to believe that guns, in the hands of law-abiding Americans, are more of a threat than U. S. nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese communists.

4. You have to believe that there was no art before Federal funding.

5. You have to believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical, documented changes in the earth's climate, and more affected by yuppies driving SUVs.

6. You have to believe that gender roles are artificial but being homosexual is natural.

7. You have to be against capital punishment but support abortion on demand.

8. You have to believe that businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity.

9. You have to believe that hunters don't care about nature, but loony activists from Seattle do.

10. You have to believe that self-esteem is more important than actually doing something to earn it.

11. You have to believe the military, not corrupt politicians, start wars.

12. You have to believe the NRA is bad, because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the ACLU is good, because it supports certain parts of the Constitution.

13. You have to believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high.

14. You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, George Washington or Thomas Edison.

15. You have to believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides aren't.

16. You have to believe that Hillary Clinton is really a lady.

17. You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried, is because the right people haven't been in charge.

18. You have to believe conservatives telling the truth belong in jail, but a liar and sex offender belongs in the White House.

19. You have to believe that homosexual parades displaying drag, transvestites and bestiality should be constitutionally protected and manger scenes at Christmas should be illegal.

20. You have to believe that illegal Democratic Party funding by the Chinese is somehow in the best interest of the United States.

If you agree.....VOTE DEMOCRAT !!!

OH GOD, I ALMOST CRAPPED MY PANTS...Sorry Democrat folks, but some of this rings true, and even more important....IT'S FUNNY AS HELL! Of course, we could make a similar list for all the GOP lovers. I've always considered myself a "conservative moderate" (whatever the hell that is), and really enjoy watching the people on "both sides of the aisle" go at it. This is a CLASSIC. Well done!!!

[Farmer Fred]

Ask and ye shall receive:

1. You have to believe that the nation's current 8-year prosperity was due to the deficit spending of Ronald Reagan and George Bush, but yesterday's gasoline prices are all Clinton's fault.

2. You have to believe that those privileged from birth achieve success all on their own.

3. You have to be against all government programs, but expect Social Security checks on time.

4. You have to believe that someone like Michelle Pfeiffer can really walk into an inner city classroom and accomplish miracles.

5. AIDS victims deserve their disease, but smokers with lung cancer and overweight individuals with heart disease don't deserve theirs.

6. You have to appreciate the power rush that comes with sporting a gun.

7. You have to believe everything Rush Limbaugh says.

8. You have to believe that the agricultural, restaurant, housing and hotel industries can survive without immigrant labor.

9. You have to believe God hates homosexuality, but loves the death penalty.

10. You have to believe society is colorblind and growing up black in America doesn't diminish your opportunities, but you still won't vote for Alan Keyes.

11. You have to believe that pollution is OK as long as it makes a profit.

12. You have to believe in prayer in schools, as long as you don't pray to Allah or Buddha.

13. You have to believe Newt Gingrich and Henry Hyde were really faithful husbands.

14. You have to believe speaking a few Spanish phrases makes you instantly popular in the barrio.

15. You have to believe that only your own teenagers are still virgins.

16. You have to be against government interference in business, until your oil company, corporation or Savings and Loan is about to go broke and you beg for a government bail out.

17. You love Jesus and Jesus loves you and, by the way, Jesus shares your hatred for AIDS victims, homosexuals, and President Clinton.

18. You have to believe government has nothing to do with providing police protection, national defense, and building roads.

19. You have to believe a poor, minority student with a bad disciplinary history and failing grades will be admitted into an elite private school with a $1,000 voucher.

20. You only wanted Elian Gonzalez to stay in order to peeve the President.

[Optimist]

…..so anyway, he said he enjoyed the Turkish Prison so much he asked if he could stay longer.


Ratfarts… Sorry wrong forum.

[Farmer Fred]

There is the option to delete...

[bvstone1]

And no matter what side you're on, Bruce Williams offered the best insight available.

Threaten to take away a funded program (for example. Soc. Sec.) and they will be more willing to pay more taxes to keep it.

Instead of trimming the fat (the most obvious way to save money) they say "we need to raise taxes."

We all say "No!"

They say "Well, we need to cut (insert programs here) then...".

We say "Ok, we'll pay higher taxes.."

They think "stupid feeble minded idiots... haha.. I am getting a raise and I still don't have to pay any tax on my income!"

It's basic business... you need to spend as much as or ore than your budget to get the same or higher budget for the next fiscal year. Who cares how you fund it.

to everyone in politics... thats what I say. Except Jesse.. He almost showed everyone what was behind the curtain in Oz...

[Optimist]

[SIZE=7]FIRE![/SIZE]
"only kidding"....

[SIZE=7]FIRE![/SIZE]
"No seriously... I'm serious...... ok..ok.. I'm still only kidding."

[jd1973]

This is a lively group!!

Politics are the best of both worlds, lawyers and politicians. I myself dont' give a rats butt about most of these issues. I don't vote for the man anymore, but for the party.

My turn to anger some folks...

I have to vote Republican for a few reasons. And these are my reasons. Heck, even my wife doesn't agree with me much of the time.

1. After about twenty (maybe thirty) years I am finally making some decent money and don't want to give it away to others who don't want to work as hard as I have. And believe me I started with nothing. I give to the charities I feel are worthwhile, not the ones the govt identifies.

2. There has to some level of a morality somewhere. At least Bush gives a front of morality. I don't see him out hopping hookers. Family does matter and not the "new" type of family we are being told is normal. I really don't know much about Kerry and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt but I won't ever vote Dem again. I'm sorry!

3. I'm really beginning to hate public schools and the public colleges for their slanted message. In public schools certain kids are mainstreamed into classrooms, ruining the learning environment for every one else. These kids cant' do the work and basically just disruptive in the the classes. Just another experiment so they could be normalized. Sorry but if you don't earn it you don't get it. Everyone is not equal just for showing up.

4. I'm not too excited with non-english speaking in the schools (or any where else). If you don't speak the language you are not going to succeed here. I learned some Spanish when I lived in Central America. Seems fair enough. Don't know which party is which on this issue.

During my 50 years I've become more conservative and I'm not too ashamed to admit it. I've outgrown being liberal (todays socialism). The dream of a wonderland where everyone is equal, gets along, and makes good life choices is just that, a dream. Never going to happen in my lifetime. There are way too many people out there looking for a free ride.

BUT, there are also several issues I don't agree with on the current Republican agenda. What the hell are we still doing in Iraq. I'm a former USAF officer and I saw the reason for going but the nut is gone! Get our troops the hell out of there and let the UN do their thing.

I fully believe the Dems are excited about dragging us down to the lowest common denominator (uneducated and lazy).

Boy that was fun. Don't take any of this personal. As I said before these are my views and you can agree or not. That's what makes this so great.
Thanks