E-Lock locked in 2WD, 4HI & 4LO

[Austin]

Originally Posted by 05nismo

Is this a titan only thing? Can you verify this? On my frontier, the ABLS works even in 4LO with the rear locker on. I verified this when I was stuck in the mud. I was in 4 LO, rear locker on, and when I would hit the gas pedal, the slip light would blink, and I could feel the front brakes hitting on either side.

When in 4LO on an Titan, when you toggle the OEM diff lock control switch to lock the diff, you also get an ABS light on the instrument cluster. The ABS light lindicates a malfunction with the ABS system (in this case, the ABS system has been deenergized).

If the ABS and BRAKE lights come on, it indicates a further failure with EBD - Electronic Brake Distribution.

For verification... I've been on quite a few mud trips with friends. Nice thick sloppy muck, deep enough to stop a built truck with a ton of lift and 40" tires (but open diffs...). I've been stuck quite a few times also - where you have ample time to see which wheels are/aren't spinning. I've done alot of those mud runs in 4LO with the diff locked. I've been videotaped quite a few times also.

I've never seen the SLIP light come on when in 4LO (SLIP light indicates ABLS activation). When I've been stuck in the mud in 4LO, I've asked and been told that one of my front tires isn't spinning. Also, I've seen my truck on video after - one front wheel tossin' a rooster tail while the other one has fallen asleep. Is that verification enough?

The great thing now is that I can be locked and keep ABLS to the front.


But... I would love to look at the manuals for your Fronty. I'm an information whore... Do you have a set on CD you could lend me?

Originally Posted by 05nismo

Very informative post, I plan to do this to my frontier, hoefully, this is very similar to your instructions. Thanks.

If you have manuals, I'll go though and verify this on your fronty.

[Justintoxicated]

Ok, now isn't there a reason they made it only usable in 4WL?

I thought I read somewhere that using the locker at speed while turning could destroy it?

Just thought I would ask before I do this myself.

[HavockWK]

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated

Ok, now isn't there a reason they made it only usable in 4WL?

I thought I read somewhere that using the locker at speed while turning could destroy it?

Just thought I would ask before I do this myself.

It can be used responsibly in any choice of driveline. Leaving it on all the time when on or off road would not be good, but when there is no traction, the wheels will be slipping enough to not damage the locker.

[Justintoxicated]

I was thinking that you could use it in the sand? I mean, if I could only turn it on when there was no traction I would already be stuck and then I might was well put it in 4W Low anyways?

Also how are you going to keep ABLS to the front in 4WD? I thoguht you said it was disable din 4WL? Why would Nissan Disable ABLS in 4WL and not in 4WH? Since 4WL is mostly to get you out of being stuck already? That would mean you should use 4WH if your stuck?

Sorry if these are dumb questions this just is not makeing sense to me.

Also, I probably should know but I dont, How do you wire a relay to work with the switch? Did you have to fuse the switch to drop the power? and if not why not just use the switch with no relay?

[Austin]

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated

I was thinking that you could use it in the sand? I mean, if I could only turn it on when there was no traction I would already be stuck and then I might was well put it in 4W Low anyways?

Especially with a solid axle, you can easily get into a situation where one wheel is stuffed up into the fender well and the other wheel is spinning in free air. With an open differential, all the power goes to the free spinning wheel - the wheel with the least traction, or the wheel that is the easiest to turn. Open differentials distribute equal amounts of torque to both sides - so, if one side has no resistance, no torque can be generated, and zero (equal) torque is distributed to both wheels.

ABLS is great because it gives that free spinning wheel something to push against, so that torque is able to be generated and distributed to the wheel that actually has traction. But, ABLS isn't the be all/end all in traction devices...

With a locked diff, both wheels spin equally and at the same rate. So, if either wheel has adequate traction, neither wheel will spin.

There are places that a prerunner (a 2WD truck with a locked rear diff) can go that a normal 4x4 (with both open diffs) can't.

It's not that you "can only turn it on when there is no traction" - but you don't want to have a locked diff in situations where you have great traction. On pavement, you don't want a locked diff. When you turn, the inside wheel must travel the same distance as the outside wheel - so the tire slips. That's fine if you're in the dirt or sand, but you can experience much increase tire wear if you do that on pavement. Or, worse, your tires don't slip and you break some drivetrain component.

A locker also comes in very handy in situations where you don't want to spin your wheels, such as going up a steep incline. With a locked diff, you can keep a nice steady, easy pace - there's no need to hit it running.

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated

Also how are you going to keep ABLS to the front in 4WD? I thoguht you said it was disable din 4WL? Why would Nissan Disable ABLS in 4WL and not in 4WH? Since 4WL is mostly to get you out of being stuck already? That would mean you should use 4WH if your stuck?

ABLS is married to ABS - you can't have ABLS without ABS. ABS and ABLS are still enabled in 4HI and 4LO, but, if in 4LO with the diff locked (by the OEM switch), ABS & ABLS are deenergized. Since my way is bypassing the control units completely, ABS and ABLS remain energized even if the diff is locked - so you keep ABLS for the front end.

4LO isn't made to get you unstuck if you get stuck in 4HI. Different types of terrain require different gearing. For rock crawling, you want to go nice and slow - so 4LO is likely appropriate. For trail use, depending on how open the trail is, 4HI is likely appropriate. For pulling stumps (or hooking up to mighty Ford Explorer 6cyl's) or any situation where you need maximum torque to the ground, 4LO is appropriate. For snowy highway travel, 4HI is likely appropriate - but you definitely don't want a locked diff in that situation.

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated

Also, I probably should know but I dont, How do you wire a relay to work with the switch? Did you have to fuse the switch to drop the power? and if not why not just use the switch with no relay?

All relays have a coil (an inductor) which, when energized, will close at least one set of contacts to complete another circuit. The relay coil is energized (controlled) by the switch. 12VDC is applied to one terminal of the switch, then run a wire from the other terminal of the switch to one side of the relay coil (terminal 7 or 8), then run another wire from the other relay coil termina to ground. Flipping the switch completes the circuit, which energizes the relay coil, which operates the contacts. For a DPDT relay, two circuits are broken and two circuits are completed when the relay is energized.

It's a good way to isolate the control side from the load side - you don't have full load current running through the switch. In this case, I used a 30A switch - so, it definitely would have been able to handle it, but I would've had to use four switches to accomplish the same function of the one relay that I used.

I'm a bit confuzzled by your question: "Did you have to fuse the switch to drop the power? " Can you ask it a different way?

[Squid]

All I'm seeing is red X's.

[Justintoxicated]

ok now im a little confused I guess A wiring diargram woudl make more sense, I always have trouble seeing circuits in words.

I thought you were using the relay for the switch because it could not take the juice so I asked if you needed a resistor (not fuse, oops) for the lighted part of the switch. There are these switches I have always wanted to use but had to have a relay because the LED on them and the switches Power both needed to be limited. Too much power to the LED and it would fry or too much power to the switch and it would fry. It seems to me like a switch wired to operate a Buss would do the same thing as the relay you are using. Or am I missing something? Cause I am really confused now.

So you have Power to the Relay (not through the switch) and Power to the switch (but the switch is set up in series with the Relay) (no gound wire goes to the switch, only to the relay?) And does the relay have more than 1 ground wire connected to it then? (one for the switch and one for the components hooked to the power provided by distribution side of the relay?

SO it would be safe to use the locker in 2WD or 4WH in the sand then?

How are you limiting the Car's Power to 12V? A Voltage limiting circuit? I know cars typicaly produce more like 14.8V Or is that what you ment?

Why does Nissan Disable ABLS in 4WL with the diff locked?

Squid - I think sometimes his server chokes try refreshing the screen or waiting a few minutes.

This is a link to the kinda switch I wanted to use http://www.bulgin.co.uk/Products/Swi...luminated.html I'd have to go with RED, BLUE, But Prolly Amber!, Just not sure how to wire them. But I figure that is the most expensive part of the mod so I might as well show it off if I do it. Pluse I think it would be a bit harder to accidentaly press than most rockers.

Thanks for your Help BTW, I'm asking so many questions because I am definately interested in doing this.

[05nismo]

Originally Posted by Austin

But... I would love to look at the manuals for your Fronty. I'm an information whore... Do you have a set on CD you could lend me?

If you have manuals, I'll go though and verify this on your fronty.

I have the factory service manual, I compared it to the diagrams you posted for the titan, they are similar, but different.

[Austin]

Originally Posted by 05nismo

I have the factory service manual, I compared it to the diagrams you posted for the titan, they are similar, but different.

I'd love to take a look at them, if you're willing.

[Austin]

Originally Posted by Squid

All I'm seeing is red X's.

Yeah, my webhost went down for a bit today. Looks like it's up now, though.

[Justintoxicated]

So why does Nissan Disable ABLS when you have the Diff Locked in 4WL? But it is ok to have it enabled? Just seems odd they would go through the trouble of disabeling it if it did not cause any problems and would only help yout o hookup???

[Austin]

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated

ok now im a little confused I guess A wiring diargram woudl make more sense, I always have trouble seeing circuits in words.

Do you need a more detailed schematic than the one I posted in the first post? I'll draw it up later tonight if you do.

[Austin]

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated

So you have Power to the Relay (not through the switch) and Power to the switch (but the switch is set up in series with the Relay) (no gound wire goes to the switch, only to the relay?) And does the relay have more than 1 ground wire connected to it then? (one for the switch and one for the components hooked to the power provided by distribution side of the relay?

The relay has 2 parts. The relay coil and the contacts operated by the coil.

I'm using a switch to energize the relay coil - to turn the relay on. It's wired from 12VDC to switch to relay coil to ground. Flipping the switch energizes the relay coil, which in turn moves the contacts in the relay.

The contacts are used to switch power and ground to the diff lock solenoid. When the relay is off, power and ground are proved (or not provided) by the diff lock control unit. When the relay is off, power and ground are provided via the relay, from the power wire to the DLCU and ground to the DLCU.

[Austin]

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated

SO it would be safe to use the locker in 2WD or 4WH in the sand then?

Yes, lockers are great for the sand. Great for dirt. Great for mud. Great for deep snow at slower speeds. Great for spinning the back end around on ice (read: Not great for ice).

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated

How are you limiting the Car's Power to 12V? A Voltage limiting circuit? I know cars typicaly produce more like 14.8V Or is that what you ment?

I'm not using any voltage limiting device. I don't recall offhand the max voltage of the relay and switch - but it's well outside the range experienced in automotive systems.

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated

Why does Nissan Disable ABLS in 4WL with the diff locked?

Sounds like they don't do it on the Frontier. As for why it's done on the Titan... I'm not sure. There is no safety or equipment reason to. ABLS becomes a moot issue on the back axle - there can be no relative motion between left and right rear wheels when they're locked together. ABLS operates independantly front and rear, so there's no reason I can see why ABS (and ABLS) needs to be turned off.

One possible reason - ABS really sucks in the dirt. On dirt, snow, mud, sand, etc., you'll stop a lot quicker without ABS. A locked wheel will build up a wedge of earth or snow in front of it, and the truck then has to push four piles of earth or snow to keep moving - so it stops quicker. That may be the reason they turn off ABS with the diff locked... but I'm not sure.

[Austin]

Originally Posted by Kronos1965

Austin,

I do want one more picture though...
Show me the twin strips of rubber pullleaaaase!

Mike

Well, I tried a few today for ya - but they were on rocked roads which don't show the rubber all that well.

But... I dug a couple nice holes in dirt, just for you.