Anyone getting a valvetrain rattle on cold start?

FuzzyLogic · 05-26-2006, 07:13 PM

Getting a little rattle on cold start...goes away after the oil gets to the top of the engine (about 10 seconds). My Expedition did this as well.

Is it a problem?

Seerex · 05-26-2006, 07:51 PM

Mine did it once , and it was on a hot day . But never has since, it was about 3 months after I had bought the truck.

Mr. B · 05-26-2006, 08:51 PM

This subject was discussed at length awhile back....my motor sounds like a hundred sewing machines being operated by Indonesian children with bloody little fingers for $1.00 a week making Martha Stewart clothing while she makes gad-zillions at their expense....

sudden urge · 05-26-2006, 09:14 PM

I guess some are different, mine is super quiet at startup. I am and will only use the Nissan oil filter. Also using Pennzoil 5w-30.

Steamguy · 05-27-2006, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic

Getting a little rattle on cold start...goes away after the oil gets to the top of the engine (about 10 seconds). ...Is it a problem?

Are you using the Nissan oil filter? It has an anti-drainback valve in it.

Other filters, while very good, do not have this feature, and you will get this noise. And yes, it is a problem. This means that most of the engine is running unoiled for that time. In the end, this will reduce the effective lifetime of the engine.

Quick story:
I was getting the oil changed on the truck, and they had a whole crew of 'new guys' being supervised by the 'old hand'. I asked if they had put the Nissan oil filter on the truck, (they keep them there for me) and there was this long pause. "Take it OFF and change it please!!"

What was really bad is that the truck was 'talking to me' in this manner. It'd been only 2300 miles since the last change, but I kept getting this noise on startup. Turns out that these idiots had put a different brand of filter on the truck. I was mad, but it was closing time, so they had time for a three-minute lecture by the old Journeyman. And they got one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic

My Expedition did this as well.

In about 1979, Ford elected to save some money in engine designs by eliminating the anti-drainback internally. After that, all Ford engines have to have this feature in the oil filter. It's included in the Autolite (oops, I mean Motorcraft) filters, but not in a lot of others. The car I had at that time would rattle like crazy if you put the wrong type filter on it. So I went through a LOT of different makes of oil filters to find one with the anti-drainback; especially since the Ford filters were about one-and-a-half times as much as anybody else's.

Hope this helps.

CraigG · 05-27-2006, 01:02 PM

I dont get that even in the winter time keep an eye on it.

FuzzyLogic · 05-30-2006, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamguy

Are you using the Nissan oil filter? It has an anti-drainback valve in it.

Other filters, while very good, do not have this feature, and you will get this noise. And yes, it is a problem. This means that most of the engine is running unoiled for that time. In the end, this will reduce the effective lifetime of the engine.

Quick story:
I was getting the oil changed on the truck, and they had a whole crew of 'new guys' being supervised by the 'old hand'. I asked if they had put the Nissan oil filter on the truck, (they keep them there for me) and there was this long pause. "Take it OFF and change it please!!"

What was really bad is that the truck was 'talking to me' in this manner. It'd been only 2300 miles since the last change, but I kept getting this noise on startup. Turns out that these idiots had put a different brand of filter on the truck. I was mad, but it was closing time, so they had time for a three-minute lecture by the old Journeyman. And they got one.

In about 1979, Ford elected to save some money in engine designs by eliminating the anti-drainback internally. After that, all Ford engines have to have this feature in the oil filter. It's included in the Autolite (oops, I mean Motorcraft) filters, but not in a lot of others. The car I had at that time would rattle like crazy if you put the wrong type filter on it. So I went through a LOT of different makes of oil filters to find one with the anti-drainback; especially since the Ford filters were about one-and-a-half times as much as anybody else's.

Hope this helps.

I do have the Nissan filter. The truck only has 6800 miles on it. Nissan is the only service group that has touched it so far.

Steamguy · 05-30-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic

I do have the Nissan filter. The truck only has 6800 miles on it. Nissan is the only service group that has touched it so far.

Take it in and tell them about this. Make sure to have them do a cold-start oil pressure test. That will tell a lot. Having the light go off is not enough; if you have this valvetrain noise then there is something else wrong.

FuzzyLogic · 05-30-2006, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamguy

Take it in and tell them about this. Make sure to have them do a cold-start oil pressure test. That will tell a lot. Having the light go off is not enough; if you have this valvetrain noise then there is something else wrong.

What would the problem be? I've been told by other that it is a normal occurrance in overhead cam engines. The dealership said it was normal. This is a repeat of the problem I had with the Expedition.

But...the Expedition didn't have an engine failiure. It just sounded bad on startup, like this engine does.

Steamguy · 05-31-2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic

What would the problem be? I've been told by other that it is a normal occurrance in overhead cam engines. The dealership said it was normal. This is a repeat of the problem I had with the Expedition.

But...the Expedition didn't have an engine failiure. It just sounded bad on startup, like this engine does.

This is the old Journeyman part of me asking the question... Just making sure to cover all bases: when you start up, you have your foot off the gas, spin the starter and let it catch and idle without touching the throttle for at least ten seconds while you buckle your seat belt and such.

What is normal is to have SOME (and I mean a very little extra) noise on startup. If you have a LOT of noise then you have other issues, like the quality or weight of the oil being used in the truck.

What's happening is that the oil is flowing all the way off the valvetrain and not 'sticking' well enough to it to lubricate it for those few seconds before the oil comes zooming up from the oil pump. This kind of problem can occur in really hot climates where the engine will stay really hot for a while after shutdown. This keeps the oil thin, and makes it want to 'run off' the engine parts more than usual. Also if you just come in right off the highway and immediately shut down, this can occur. This is an old problem in turbocharged engines, but I won't go there, now.

What you can do right off is check with whoever is changing your oil to make sure they're using at least 5W-30, especially important if you're using conventional oil. If they are, and you wish to continue using conventional oils, rather than a synthetic, you can switch to 10W-30, (as long as the average temperature doesn't go below 0 degrees) and you will likely notice that the problem will disappear.

What I think is quite a bit less likely but bears mentioning is that they are refilling with an inferior oil. Nissan has a minimum standard for their oil, and it could be that what's going back in does not meet this standard.

However if you're getting your service done at a dealer's then the use of the incorrect weight oil is my bet.

Hope this helps.

FuzzyLogic · 05-31-2006, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamguy

This is the old Journeyman part of me asking the question... Just making sure to cover all bases: when you start up, you have your foot off the gas, spin the starter and let it catch and idle without touching the throttle for at least ten seconds while you buckle your seat belt and such.

What is normal is to have SOME (and I mean a very little extra) noise on startup. If you have a LOT of noise then you have other issues, like the quality or weight of the oil being used in the truck.

What's happening is that the oil is flowing all the way off the valvetrain and not 'sticking' well enough to it to lubricate it for those few seconds before the oil comes zooming up from the oil pump. This kind of problem can occur in really hot climates where the engine will stay really hot for a while after shutdown. This keeps the oil thin, and makes it want to 'run off' the engine parts more than usual. Also if you just come in right off the highway and immediately shut down, this can occur. This is an old problem in turbocharged engines, but I won't go there, now.

What you can do right off is check with whoever is changing your oil to make sure they're using at least 5W-30, especially important if you're using conventional oil. If they are, and you wish to continue using conventional oils, rather than a synthetic, you can switch to 10W-30, (as long as the average temperature doesn't go below 0 degrees) and you will likely notice that the problem will disappear.

What I think is quite a bit less likely but bears mentioning is that they are refilling with an inferior oil. Nissan has a minimum standard for their oil, and it could be that what's going back in does not meet this standard.

However if you're getting your service done at a dealer's then the use of the incorrect weight oil is my bet.

Hope this helps.

Yep...all of your comments are covered. No foot on the gas.

I live in Florida. At the first oil change, I switched to 10w-30. Nissan service will be the only ones touching it for the foreseeable future.

The last few times on cold start, it didn't make the noise(?). Today, I had the second oil change and also had the rear end fluid replaced.

We'll see how it goes. My Expedition did it for 75k miles on every cold start and sounded horrendous (it used to draw attention from my neighbors if they were outside). This was not nearly as bad.

kman · 05-31-2006, 05:51 PM

it has also been noted on other threads that there can be oil drain back at the hydraulic timing chain tensioner. If this has happened to you, it wouldn't be a little bit of drive train rattle on start up, you would be thinking you had blown a rod or something.

FlimFlamMan · 06-04-2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. B

This subject was discussed at length awhile back....my motor sounds like a hundred sewing machines being operated by Indonesian children with bloody little fingers for $1.00 a week making Martha Stewart clothing while she makes gad-zillions at their expense....

I'm glad I had the presence of mind to spit my coffee out to the side of the puter when I read this. I don't care who you are thats funny.

And yes... mine sounds the same way. Been that way since day one.

And I always use the oem filter.