Brake "shudder" fixed

NSXER · 06-15-2004, 05:37 AM

With 2700 miles on my Titan LE Crew 4 X 4, I was disappointed with
the steering wheel having the "shakes" whenever I touched the brakes
at anything over 25 mph.......called the Nissan dealer, yes they knew
about the problem but had no parts but they were on the way. I then called
Nissan customer service and they said parts were due at dealers shortly.

Late last week the dealer called and said parts were now in for my truck
and I took it in yesterday(6/14/04) at 8:00 am and at 10:30 am they
called and said "it's ready". Picked it up and problem solved..painless!
The fix was new pads and turning my rotors. Do I care that the rotors
are a little thinner (?)...not in the least.

I was happy with the way both Nissan customer service and my dealer
performed on this one. Just happy everything went smoothly.

Dude · 06-15-2004, 11:08 AM

They didn't fix your problem, at least not permanently. You will have the problem again so you should be pissed that they put a band-aid on your problem and tried to make you think it was solved. The problem is not the pads. Sorry to rain on your parade, but I didn't want them to snow you totally. This has been discussed many times before, but I find it hard to believe you are not mad about them making your rotors "used". Would you have been happy if they said they gave you some rotors off a wrecked Titan with 2700 miles on it? I believe most people would be livid. Well, that is basically what they did to you. You have a new vehicle with old rotors on it now, but I do admire your upbeat attitude. Hope they don't give you anymore problems, but it is doubtful.

rvsixer · 06-15-2004, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dude

They didn't fix your problem, at least not permanently.

So you are saying the TSB issued by Nissan for this known issue really doesn't fix it? Data to backup the claim?
(http://www.infinitihelp.com/Ownershi.../NTB04-066.htm)

Just wondering before I go out and buy one of these beasts.

Rob.

Dude · 06-15-2004, 12:09 PM

No written data other than on other forums. Just experience. I had the same problem with my 2002 TransAm. Chevy did the same thing as this TSB. The problem always came back, because they never fixed the real problem. In their case, I believe it was crappy rotors since a lot of us on LS1.com went to Autozone and bought their $36 rotors and never had another problem. Unfortunately, the other people that had the problems supposedly fixed by Chevy(the Nissan fix) had the problems again. On the second return to the dealer, they replaced the rotors. Guess what same problem again. What would you expect when you put the same crap on the car? You get the same problem. Chevy tried all the same lame Nissan excuses. You must do a lot of panic stops. You must ride your brakes while driving around. Its your driving style. Funny how the cheap $36 rotors from Autozone could handle our "terrible" driving style.

I have not been to LS1.com for many moons. There should be more data now. I believe other makes have had the same problem. Think about Nissan's fix. Do you think turning the rotors, i.e. making them weaker(might be rather negligible) and putting on new pads are going to fix your problem. Burnishing the pads my ***. I have never intentionally burnished any pads on any car or truck I have owned, and with the exception of the TransAm I have never had any problem before in 26 years of driving. I replaced the rotors on my 93 Mustang GT and put the old pads on and never had a problem. I also put the new rotors on my TransAm and did not replace the pads either and did not have the problem again. BTW, the problem on my TA happened after 1200 miles. I am just about to reach the 1200 mile plateau on my Titan so I am keeping my fingers crossed. Believe what you want, but this problem is nothing new nor are the dealers B.S. about the cause and fix. My dealer was telling me my radio sounded great and didn't understand what I was talking about. Enough said.

Good luck on a permanent fix for your rotors and probably mine in the next couple of thousand miles. I am keeping my fingers crossed that I don't have the problem, but so far I have had almost every problem that members are reporting short of the exploding differential, but that probably would have happened had I not read this forum and found that my Diff fluid was about a quart low.

NSXER · 06-15-2004, 01:58 PM

Sheesh!

I'm still happy that the vibration is gone...otherwise my truck has been
fine.....

Boone-Titan · 06-15-2004, 03:21 PM

There is a real good likelyhood that the shudder will return. The new pads may prolong the time until it occurs depending upon the compounds/manufacturing changes. The new pads are a band-aid to compensate for other problems that would cost far more to fix. My guess is they swithed the compound of the pads to one with a heavier metal content and tweaked the binder and curing process. This would explain the TSB calling for burnishing the brakes. The thread below is from the Wheels/Brakes section where I previously posted a info source for those interested in brakes.

IMO a real brake fix would involve changing to larger (longer arc length) calipers with dual pistons and new rotors possibly cross drilled for better ventilation and slotted to keepem clean and help stop the glazing buildup.

Brake Problems

NSXER · 06-15-2004, 06:20 PM

OK I Hear what you say...so who out there had their brakes fixed only to
have the problems re-appear?

NSXER · 06-16-2004, 07:02 AM

Where are the after-brake service "shutter" problems.....hey if the
Nissan fix isn't worth anything wouldn't we see some re-occurance with
Titan owners? Speak up if you you had your brakes done and the problem
is back!

VShortt · 06-16-2004, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NSXER

Where are the after-brake service "shutter" problems.....hey if the
Nissan fix isn't worth anything wouldn't we see some re-occurance with
Titan owners? Speak up if you you had your brakes done and the problem
is back!

After reading every post in this thread, I can certainly understand your frustration. Why doesn't everyone just back off just a bit. What the hell was NSXER supposed to do? Let's think about this. Maybe he should have road tested his truck upon picking it up from the dealership, found that all was well with the brakes, and drove back to the dealership to complain that they were still acting up. The only thing more dumb than that would have been to explain that although they are fine, they will ultimately act up again. The fact is he cannot rightfully complain about something that has not even existed at this point. IF the brakes begin to give him problems again, then he can go to the dealership and complain that the original fix was unsuccessful. Until then, why be a jerk. That will get him nowhere. Thanks for the post and for letting us know that the dealership has obviously tried to take care of you in the very best way that they know. Good for you.

Dude · 06-16-2004, 09:15 AM

Quote:

After reading every post in this thread, I can certainly understand your frustration. Why doesn't everyone just back off just a bit. What the hell was NSXER supposed to do? Let's think about this. Maybe he should have road tested his truck upon picking it up from the dealership, found that all was well with the brakes, and drove back to the dealership to complain that they were still acting up. The only thing more dumb than that would have been to explain that although they are fine, they will ultimately act up again. The fact is he cannot rightfully complain about something that has not even existed at this point. IF the brakes begin to give him problems again, then he can go to the dealership and complain that the original fix was unsuccessful. Until then, why be a jerk. That will get him nowhere. Thanks for the post and for letting us know that the dealership has obviously tried to take care of you in the very best way that they know. Good for you.

Nobody is calling him dumb or flaming him. I believe the responses are intended to let him know that there is a very, very distinct possibility the problem isn't fixed, but only hidden temporarily. He seems so thrilled with Nissan when they are just taking the cheap band-aid approach as most all manufacturers do. Look at the solution they gave. The cheap one. Replace the pads, grease, turn the rotors. Burnish the pads. What a joke. If you think that is a permanent fix I have some swampland to sell you. How many brake jobs have you had at 2700 miles? How many brake jobs have you had that they had to burnish the pads(probably a good practice, but rarely done) to supposedly fix a major problem? I have had many brake jobs including the exact same problem with my TA. The problem always returned until we bought different rotors. I mentioned the LS1.com had many, many people with this problem on their 2002 F-bodies. I don't go to their site anymore, but I would suppose they should have a load of info.

I like my Titan very much, but I hate Nissan and their piss poor customer service. I believe I read another post that says they are told to deny the problem with the radio exists(this may be heresay), but it sure is the way they are acting. My dealer Coral Springs Nissan says they think I am crazy, that I am imagining it, even now after the supposed fixes I hear Nissan proclaims to have, but I have yet to see, and that they say they know nothing about a problem even existing. I am sure before the TSB, the guys having brake problems got the same snow job. It must be your driving habits? Nobody else has the problem?

So when I see a Nissan dealer or Nissan themselves do the right thing, then I might not be so quick to put them down and not trust them. My opinion is my opinion and it may not be even worth a nickel, but I am willing to bet money the problem is not fixed permanently. When will you see the problem again. On the TransAms it usually took about 8K miles. Some less some more, but the problem always returned. Perhaps Nissan bought their crappy rotors from the same place GM did. If I remember correct my rotors were 12 inch on my TransAm. Strange coincidence? One more thing, the problem only happened on the front rotors never the back. The front bear most of the burden in stopping your vehicle.

Once again, I am not putting the man down. I applaud his upbeat attitude. I just wanted him to what I consider the probable truth. You look at Nissan's solution and tell me how you think this will cure the problem permanently. It is the rotors and/or Calipers that are the problem not grease or pads or burnishing.

GM did the same supposed cure as Nissan and said the same things as Nissan and sent the same TSB as Nissan, but the problem returned just as we on that site said it would. Go look for yourself. If I have time I will try to see what has been going on with their brake problems and what was GMs final solution was as this was 2002 when I was last on the site.

VShortt · 06-16-2004, 09:37 AM

No one was flaming you either. My point was simply, why must everyone "rain on his parade". It is very discouraging to have to hear what is likely the case, but to hear it repeatedly becomes somewhat patronizing at certain point. That's it. His original post was a comment...not a question. And by the way, I never once suggested that I believed it to be a permanent fix, nor are you able to point out in my post where I did.

rvsixer · 06-16-2004, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dude

Replace the pads, grease, turn the rotors. Burnish the pads. What a joke. If you think that is a permanent fix I have some swampland to sell you.

Different (though non-Nissan/Titan) experience:
My Toyota developed wavy rotors at around 30K. Again wavy rotors at around 38K. Replaced pads (Toyota OEM), turned the rotors. Again wavy rotors at around 50K. Replaced pads (this time used cheapy NAPA ones), turned the rotors. Those same rotors then took me to 190K miles, just kept replacing pads with cheapies from NAPA.

Admittedly a one off experience, but in this case pad composition definitely seemed to affect the rotors. IMHO the possibility exists the new pads may help with the Titan problem, only time will tell (which is why I asked for data supporting your viewpoint). The issue is part of my "con" Titan prepurchase list, but way down at the bottom.

Anyways best of luck fixing yours. My trouble right now is finding a dealer who actually wants to sell a vehicle

. Titans are apparently selling so well, and the economy doing so good, that no one is returning e-mails or phone messages

.

Rob.

NSXER · 06-16-2004, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dude

Nobody is calling him dumb or flaming him. I believe the responses are intended to let him know that there is a very, very distinct possibility the problem isn't fixed, but only hidden temporarily. He seems so thrilled with Nissan when they are just taking the cheap band-aid approach as most all manufacturers do. Look at the solution they gave. The cheap one. Replace the pads, grease, turn the rotors. Burnish the pads. What a joke. If you think that is a permanent fix I have some swampland to sell you. How many brake jobs have you had at 2700 miles? How many brake jobs have you had that they had to burnish the pads(probably a good practice, but rarely done) to supposedly fix a major problem? I have had many brake jobs including the exact same problem with my TA. The problem always returned until we bought different rotors. I mentioned the LS1.com had many, many people with this problem on their 2002 F-bodies. I don't go to their site anymore, but I would suppose they should have a load of info.

I like my Titan very much, but I hate Nissan and their piss poor customer service. I believe I read another post that says they are told to deny the problem with the radio exists(this may be heresay), but it sure is the way they are acting. My dealer Coral Springs Nissan says they think I am crazy, that I am imagining it, even now after the supposed fixes I hear Nissan proclaims to have, but I have yet to see, and that they say they know nothing about a problem even existing. I am sure before the TSB, the guys having brake problems got the same snow job. It must be your driving habits? Nobody else has the problem?

So when I see a Nissan dealer or Nissan themselves do the right thing, then I might not be so quick to put them down and not trust them. My opinion is my opinion and it may not be even worth a nickel, but I am willing to bet money the problem is not fixed permanently. When will you see the problem again. On the TransAms it usually took about 8K miles. Some less some more, but the problem always returned. Perhaps Nissan bought their crappy rotors from the same place GM did. If I remember correct my rotors were 12 inch on my TransAm. Strange coincidence? One more thing, the problem only happened on the front rotors never the back. The front bear most of the burden in stopping your vehicle.

Once again, I am not putting the man down. I applaud his upbeat attitude. I just wanted him to what I consider the probable truth. You look at Nissan's solution and tell me how you think this will cure the problem permanently. It is the rotors and/or Calipers that are the problem not grease or pads or burnishing.

GM did the same supposed cure as Nissan and said the same things as Nissan and sent the same TSB as Nissan, but the problem returned just as we on that site said it would. Go look for yourself. If I have time I will try to see what has been going on with their brake problems and what was GMs final solution was as this was 2002 when I was last on the site.

Again, if there are people with on-going problems, post repair....well they
can speak up. Simple F%$king statement..I don't need a Philadelphia
Lawyer telling me the way things MIGHT turn out!

Dude · 06-17-2004, 12:50 PM

I wish I was a Philadelphia Lawyer. Sorry to offend you. Time will tell. We are different kind of people. I want to know if the fix I receive fixes the real problem. Turning my rotors at 2700 miles is totally unacceptable to me, but obviously not you. To each his own. I really hope your problem is solved. Once again, sorry.

VShortt · 06-17-2004, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dude

I wish I was a Philadelphia Lawyer. Sorry to offend you. Time will tell. We are different kind of people. I want to know if the fix I receive fixes the real problem. Turning my rotors at 2700 miles is totally unacceptable to me, but obviously not you. To each his own. I really hope your problem is solved. Once again, sorry.

That was classy, Dude.