Are they safe???

[WIS-key]

Originally Posted by stevemis

We tested this on multiple Titans. None recognized my 132 pound wife, who is now down to 127 pounds. The test vehicles included leather and cloth captain's chairs and leather and cloth bench seats.

This was one of Nissan's reasons for calling our problem "NORMAL OPERATION".

When was this? Any idea when these vehicles were "born on"? I've got two daughters, who weigh about 95 lbs. and 110 lbs. - either one of them is able activate the airbag ("airbag off" light is NOT illuminated) when they sit in the passenger seat. I have a KC LE born on 2-Apr-2004.

Perhaps your wife is made of helium? Seriously, I don't mean to make light of your situation - I just wonder how so many vehicles could be so obviously defective. Maybe they were all manufactured around the same time? (Bad batch of parts/sensors/whatever)

-Rob

[Copperhead]

PICTURE THIS...

You're driving along, and it's at the point that it's VERY obvious you're going to CRASH. Nowhere to turn to avoid impact, no time to brake. Your passenger BRACES herself for impact. While she 'braces' herself, she presses her feet down on the floorboard, and pushes with her legs, reducing the weight on the seat sensor. The sensor doesn't detect the weight. ..therefore no airbag. ..right?

-This is often the way one brances him/herself for impact.

....To me, in MY opinion.. this is a really poor design, and I do not like, nor approve of it.


What say you?
Brent

[1Titan]

Originally Posted by Copperhead

PICTURE THIS...

You're driving along, and it's at the point that it's VERY obvious you're going to CRASH. Nowhere to turn to avoid impact, no time to brake. Your passenger BRACES herself for impact. While she 'braces' herself, she presses her feet down on the floorboard, and pushes with her legs, reducing the weight on the seat sensor. The sensor doesn't detect the weight. ..therefore no airbag. ..right?

-This is often the way one brances him/herself for impact.

....To me, in MY opinion.. this is a really poor design, and I do not like, nor approve of it.


What say you?
Brent

Then I guess you answered your own question and won't be getting a Titan. _Take Care.....

[stevemis]

I'm not a fan of the advanced airbags. I think the whole idea is stupid... and it doesn't work right.

Your concept is possible. The only thing that might help a passenger out is the fact that the feds require the sensor to make determinations within 10 seconds... ie, from the time you sit in the seat to the time it detects you can't be more than 10 seconds. If the same is true for the reverse (you lift off the seat) ... 10 seconds is a long time, and might be long enough for the accident to happen before the sensor determines the seat is empty.

-Steve

Originally Posted by Copperhead

PICTURE THIS...

You're driving along, and it's at the point that it's VERY obvious you're going to CRASH. Nowhere to turn to avoid impact, no time to brake. Your passenger BRACES herself for impact. While she 'braces' herself, she presses her feet down on the floorboard, and pushes with her legs, reducing the weight on the seat sensor. The sensor doesn't detect the weight. ..therefore no airbag. ..right?

-This is often the way one brances him/herself for impact.

....To me, in MY opinion.. this is a really poor design, and I do not like, nor approve of it.


What say you?
Brent

[GemInI]

Originally Posted by ßaller

Why don't you go get that rugged Tacoma, it fell off a cliff and it was still intact. You will most likely be safe in that truck. A Blonde Friend-Girl of mine told me that!

ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!

[Haunfu]

I have tested the sensor in my truck a few times and it takes a while for the sensor to turn the airbag off once you raise off the seat. If you have ever been in a bad accident (which i have) you will not have the time to react and stand up out of your seat. Also the seat belts on the titans lock up on me all the time when coming to stops and such so they are not based just on electrical airbag sensors.

[stevemis]

Originally Posted by Haunfu

Also the seat belts on the titans lock up on me all the time when coming to stops and such so they are not based just on electrical airbag sensors.

The Titan and most other vehicles have pre-tensioners. You're describing the locking mechanism. The pretensioners fire just like airbag inflators (you have to replace them after deployment).

-Steve

[PHOEBISIS]

I agree with Stevemis,I don't like the "automatic" shutoff,I much prefer the type where you disarm it yourself.
I can't think of any good reason not to fire the pretensioners.The sensor doesn't say"no one is in the seat,it says"no one over 65 lbs is in the seat".They will fire.The engineers aren't stupid.
We are talking about the passengers seat,so you won't hit the wheel?I just checked to see whether you would hit the hard dash.(harder than it needs to be).You won't with any seat position(forward-back) if you don't slip out of the shoulder belt.Now,I think you probably will slip to the inside,and out,of the shoulder belt,and your head will bend fully forward.In that case,my head would hit the dash when the seat is closer than ~8",or about mid position in the KC.
Right Stevemis,it does take about 10 seconds or more after I removed a weight plate for the cutoff to activate.
I can also get it to activate if I push my back into the seat-very hard-by pushing with my feet on the floor.Someone with sorta long legs,who tends to lean heavily into the back of their seat will weigh quite a bit less than actual weight.With the bench seat having a lack of support for your thighs might make this worse.Don't know how the buckets are,but the bench lacks forward support,and the foam is too soft putting more weight on your feet,and maybe back,and back of seat.
Still,even with the airbag failing,the Titan would still be much safer than the average vehicle in frontal crashes-as long as you use your seatbelt,and push the seat back(things you should always do,but the KC might limit how far you pushback if someone is in the backseat).
Stevemis,guess Nissan is implying that your wife's seating posture is well outside the normal range.I can't think of any other defence in light of their"they work as designed" .The new bags also deploy so softly that the dummy's head hit the steering wheel during the crash test.Luck,Charlie

[my0my0my]

I took delivery of my truck in June. The airbag sensor works as advertised in my vehicle. I haven't read this as being a widespread problem.

[PHOEBISIS]

I just rechecked some things.
I weighed my legs on a fairly flat scale~30-35lbs;this is while sitting in the pass seat.I weigh 170.I pushed back into the seatback,and at 90 lbs(and 10 seconds) the AB would inactivate and the light went on.170-90=80lbs.The sensor worked at about 60 lbs before,so about 20 lbs went into the seatback(90 floor+60 seat bottom+20 seatback).
If Stevemis's 130 lb wife has 30 lbs legs,(30+60+extra 40 in floor and seatback=130).This is the reason they warn you not to lean on the door to sleep etc.If you tilt your seatback a lot ,or lean on your arm etc,you can inactivate it. Lack of forward support on the seat,and soft foam make your legs "heavier".The bench is this way,don't know about bucket.Everyone who has ridden in it-(120 lbs niece) is heavy enough.
I would bet Nissan will roll over,and sweeten Stevemis's deal,but if not they will claim his wife has an unusual seating posture that they couldn't design around without putting smaller people at risk.Of course,the could put sensors in the seatback,and floor to get a better idea of true size-weight-more expensive more complicated,and problem if you put stuff on the floor..Manual cutoffs are better,but they require thought,and might not be FED" legal" now.Charlie

[Howzit]

Originally Posted by Copperhead

Now it's not my intention to anger Titan owners. My intention is to get a vehicle that can gaurentee saftey (something this important [saftey] shouldn't be causing problems for ANY Titan users). If this upsets you, so be it.

I've always enjoyed Datsun/Nissans. This day in age, technology is very advanced. If Nissan cannot use technology to gaurentee saftey.....

Gotta love the concept of "Guaranteed Safety".

If this was the case we all would drive the speed limit, wear crash helmets, (in cars, too, like race car drivers), five point seat belts and not drive at night. Next thing you know, breathalyzers, sleep checkers, GPS speed control devices, and automated night driving will be the order of the day. I joke, but our insistence of 'guaranteed safety' will eventually drive us towards this.

Already insurance companies are asking that the data from our car computers be downloaded to them in order to "improve safety".

I wear my seatbelt, use a crash helmet when I ride, don't talk on a cellphone when I drive, and stay away from drugs. I also MANUALLY CONTROL the airbag on my Frontier.

Yes, I like to be safe but the answer lies in self control. Not automated control.

[WetWaders]

My 115-lb (pre-pregnancy ) wife has always properly triggered the air bag. Mine has worked perfectly.

[z3axv]

I've experienced the sensor not recognizing my wife (115lbs) being seated in the passenger's seat a couple of times. On long trips, when the seat is reclined a little the light fails to trun off. All I do is to press down with my hand on her seat until the light turns off and it does not come back on again.

[Copperhead]

Just seems to me, that in the case of an accident, if there was a passenger (weighing above the minimal weight), and the airbag did not engauge...

Nissan would more than likely be involved in a very serious lawsuite, especially if injuries occured (that could have been prevented with use of an airbag). This case would get widespread attention (Ford, Dodge, Toyota, etc would use it for leverage in their advertizing [if they can do that and avoid slander at the same time])..

I don't know. More than likely, I'll probably end up with one (I'm a hypocrit).. but it would be on my guilty-feeling concious (sp?) whenever I had light passengers..

Are any changes (to passenger airbag) in the plans for the 2005 line?

..I presume the 4.0L 2005 Frontiers will still have manually engauged bags???

Thanks for all the posts. I'm appriciating hearing what everyone is thinking about this..

Thanks again
Brent

[PHOEBISIS]

I doubt there are large differences in the AB systems of Ford,Chevy,Dodge etc.They(or maybe a Gov agency)decide how much weight will trigger the airbag sensor,and design accordingly.In the Titan it is about 60 or so pounds.If you don't put 60 lbs in that seat,no airbag will deploy.
Yes,there might be a lot of publicity if someone is hurt and the AB doesn't deploy,but the company will defend itself saying the person sat in a way that didn't put 60 lbs in the seat bottom,tilted seat back,leaned on the door sleeping,or just had an unusual sitting posture that put a lot of weight on the floor-feet.
Nissan must be claiming something like this in Stevemis's case,since they claim that the system is" working as designed"I can't see any way for them to claim it "works as designed" without saying his 132 lbs wife "sits funny".I have had the light go on when my wife was leaning on the door sleeping during a long trip(145lb 5'6"-but don't quote me on the weight!!)
.This AB thing is probably not just a Titan,or Quest,or Nissan problem.I would be surprised if other corps haven't run into the same thing-a person well over the limit not activating the AB.
If they go the other direction,and lower the wt limit,then it will go off with smaller folks taking the blow in the face and chest.
The automated system is a compromise.I prefer the manual system,but I expect that it is correct that a lot of folks wouldn't bother to inactivate the AB when they have a small person up front,so the GOV might have mandated,or suggested the auto system.
You can also get the Side,and Side Curtain airbags in all the Titans-even the cheapo XE KC 2wd that I have.Only Dodge offers side curtains,but it is close to impossible to find anything but a loaded to the gills truck with that option.I got them because a lot of folks run redlights in New Orleans,my son is an inexperienced driver,and when I eventually sell it,side Curtain airbags will be in all new cars,so it will be a selling point-it sold me.
Ford also has very good frontal offset crash test results,but no side curtains,or side airbags.If safety is a huge concern,then Ford or Titan are the best.-take your choice.The Tundra is pretty good also,and the Dodge not bad.They are big vehicles,if you don't roll them,generally safer than 3100 lb cars.Charlie PS
I think Nissan will roll over and increase their offer to Stevemis.He didn't have any reason to believe the AB wouldn't work with his wife,and an extra $2000-$3000 is nothing since they have already agreed to pay $30000-lot cheaper than defending themselves.
Now,if they do decide to dig in their heels and fight,it will be years(2,3,4,5) before he gets any $$,and he could lose and be stuck with the same truck he is still paying for and getting no use out of,and a lot of fees(unless he has a relative,or is a lawyer himself).This is why most folks jump at a buyback offer-there is a huge potential downside(a $30,000 truck you can't sell without revealing the defect,and $5000 or more in fees-maybe much,much more).The Car Manu know this,and figure most will take the $$ and run-I would have.