Tough Alignment?

[gedunk]

Upon taking delivery a couple of weeks ago with only 8 miles on the odometer, my Titan was noticeably pulling to the right. I had a service advisor drive it and agreed an alignment was necessary. For some reason, I didn't notice it on my test drive before taking delivery. Since there was a scratch on the interior trim piece around the RF radio and A/C controls and had to be ordered, we decided to wait to do the alignment when the trim piece came in and take care of it all at once. I took it in yesterday morning at 7:30am and was planning to wait a couple of hours. Even 3 if necessary. Well, at 10am, I was told how difficult these truck are to do a 4 wheel alignment on and it would be just a bit longer. At noon, my patience had worn thin and had the service advisor check on it. Apparently, the tech was having to "reset" the machine and start over from scratch. At this point, I could wait no longer since I had an appt to get my windows tinted at a tint shop. The service advisor said if I could leave my truck with them, he would throw in a free tint job for my trouble. Alrighty. I couldn't pass that up.

Anyway, he said that they have had several Titan alignments take 4-5 hours. I can't imagine why it takes that long. Anyone else run into this?

So now, I'm in a Sentra loaner for a day. Oh, the trim piece got replaced but they managed to scratch my interior in 4 different places in the process. I get to go back yet another time to get that fixed.

[waitingfortitan]

Mine was out of alignment when I picked it up also. It took three trips to two different dealers, they kept the truck each time for the day. The first dealer thought they could do the allingment only to find out the rack they had was to small. The second dealer thought they could do the alignment and had the truck for the day only to find out they did not have the software to perform the alingment. About a month later and me making a number of phone calls they got the software they needed and performed the alignment. I guess the dealers do not all have the equipment or experience to perform all maintenance yet. The most frustrating part outside of the three trips was with the service manager at the first dealer. He did not tell me about not having the equipment and instead tried telling me that Nissan wanted me to drive it for a while for a few thousand miles to let the suspension settle (while my tires where smoking). Sounded like BS to me so I checked into it and after talking to a regional Nissan person was told that was not true - they did not have the equipment - however if I wanted to they would pay for a local (hack) tire shop to do the work. I decided to wait.

[rickp]

I too had an alignment issue. I dropped my truck off at 7:30am (had an appointment) and did not get it back until 6:30pm. I waited the last two hours for it. It drove me nuts sitting and waiting for my truck back. I will say that Elk Grove Nissan did a good job on the alignment and i'm happy thus far.

[gedunk]

Well, just picked it up. And, wouldn't you know that it still pulls to the right and now my steering wheel is also pointing to about 11 o'clock. That alone tells me these guys do not know what they are doing if they can't even get the steering wheel straight. Especially after all these attempts. Since they are in a giving mood, I'll be hitting them up for another freebie whilst I once again bring it back to get it right. I'm also going to inquire about having them pay to have a local (quality) alignment shop perform the work. I refuse to be in a loaner again or sit around for 5 or 6 hours for a friggin' alignment. This is getting ridiculous. I haven't even mentioned the continuing fiasco about what they've done while fixing the interior scratches they caused while fixing other scratches. Oh my.

[rickp]

Sorry to hear your bad news. You would think they would test drive your truck to make sure everything is ok.

[Tom Roper]

Alignments are not a panacea for pulling to the right(left) if the problem is the tires themselves.

One thing that makes no sense is the tire rotation method from the owners manual. Nissan recommends rotating front to back only on the same side. But these (at least my BFGs) are not uni-directional.

Rotating backs to the front (same side) and crossing the fronts to the rear (opposite side) corrected steering pulls for me in the past on other vehicles, and probably will for this Titan too once it wears (inevitably) into a pulling pattern.

[DallasTitan]

Originally Posted by gedunk

Well, just picked it up. And, wouldn't you know that it still pulls to the right and now my steering wheel is also pointing to about 11 o'clock. That alone tells me these guys do not know what they are doing if they can't even get the steering wheel straight. Especially after all these attempts. Since they are in a giving mood, I'll be hitting them up for another freebie whilst I once again bring it back to get it right. I'm also going to inquire about having them pay to have a local (quality) alignment shop perform the work. I refuse to be in a loaner again or sit around for 5 or 6 hours for a friggin' alignment. This is getting ridiculous. I haven't even mentioned the continuing fiasco about what they've done while fixing the interior scratches they caused while fixing other scratches. Oh my.

Well,
You're causing me great concern! I thought the McKinney Nissan service guys were descent until now. I've been waiting to take mine in to do the Brake/Radio/Overhead Cracked Console/etc. TSB's together. Now I think I might just take the trip back to Bankston Nissan.

[gedunk]

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

Alignments are not a panacea for pulling to the right(left) if the problem is the tires themselves.

One thing that makes no sense is the tire rotation method from the owners manual. Nissan recommends rotating front to back only on the same side. But these (at least my BFGs) are not uni-directional.

Rotating backs to the front (same side) and crossing the fronts to the rear (opposite side) corrected steering pulls for me in the past on other vehicles, and probably will for this Titan too once it wears (inevitably) into a pulling pattern.

Agreed. I certainly have kept that as a possibility in my troubleshooting thoughts. You would think a service tech would as well. I'll make sure they've thought to consider the tires as well.

[gedunk]

Originally Posted by DallasTitan

Well,
You're causing me great concern! I thought the McKinney Nissan service guys were descent until now. I've been waiting to take mine in to do the Brake/Radio/Overhead Cracked Console/etc. TSB's together. Now I think I might just take the trip back to Bankston Nissan.

I'm certainly one for giving guys the benefit of a doubt and I tend to be a fairly patient customer as I really try to be realistic. But, repeated failure on a very common task begins to give me grief.

Just to let you know a summary of the other secondary issues I've had to deal with on this journey:

1) They scratched the arm rest lid - replaced, but did not swap out the locking core. Thus, my key will not lock the lid.
2) They scratched the stereo/air condition control panel and replaced with the wrong one. I now have buttons for Rear A/V and Headphones even though I don't have that. If you look in the owner's manual, they replaced with a "D" control panel when it should have been a "C" control panel.
3) They scratched and gouged the glovebox door - replaced
4) The flashing red airbag light on the instrument cluster was on after they replaced the other trim piece around the radio. It was still flashing yesterday when I picked it up even though the work order says it was fixed. (Had to wait for that to get remedied)

My service advisor has been great. It's just the techs that appear to be boneheads. He did get me free tint on the front 2 windows for my 1st round of troubles. (Although it's 35% and not 30% as he said it would be) I'm curious to see if he's still in a giving mood when I inform him that it's still not right and the other little issues I mentioned. Unfortunately, he was out when I picked up the truck yesterday afternoon. Stay tuned.

[Flafisher]

Mine also pulled to the right and had the steering wheel off center (about 1 inch on level road). Note that this truck tends to wander to the low side of the road so you must test it on a straight and level road (My old Ford Explorer did the same thing).

Once the dealer aligned it, everything looks okay. The steering wheel however is only right on center when the road is level. As most roads are made to drain outwards and we drive on the right, the truck wants to wander right which means the steering wheel is usually just slightly (about half inch) turned to the left to maintain direction.

As far as rotating tires, the jury is still out on whether radial tires should be swapped from one side to the other. You can search the internet and find plenty of sources but I'd check with the MFR before swapping sides on my vehicle.

Hope this helps.

[Tom Roper]

Originally Posted by Flafisher

As far as rotating tires, the jury is still out on whether radial tires should be swapped from one side to the other. You can search the internet and find plenty of sources but I'd check with the MFR before swapping sides on my vehicle.

Jury verdict verdict has been "in" for years. It's fine to swap sides and recommended by Ford, GM and Dodge trucks on radial tires (including BFG) not specifically marked with a uni-directional arrow on the sidewall.

It's also how you avoid, or rid your truck of steering pulls when the wheel alignment is already correct.

[gedunk]

UPDATE: I'm scheduled to go back in on Friday morning. Since he says the alignment specs are all "in the green", they may be looking at a radial tire pull and may need to swap the fronts. From what I know, "in the green" simply means within normal limits. I was also informed that I would not be able to take it to a local alignment shop. His reason was that all the shops are turning them away and cannot do an alignment on a Titan. Knowing that had to be a load of crap, I called my favorite shop and they confirmed that they do have the manufacturer's specs in their machine and could do it. The shop also told me that it would only be $54 + tax since this truck requires only a "modified" 4 wheel alignment. According to them, there are no manufacturer adjustments to be made for the rear or something to that effect. Not completely clear on what that means but this is all getting very interesting.

[Tom Roper]

You're making progress it sounds to me. Specs "in the green" should not cause a steering pull, but radial tire pull will. It's one thing to get the wheels pointed in the right directions. It's another when uneven rolling resistance causes veering.

Your alignment shop is giving you the straight dope. The rear axle is solid, there are no rear adjustments that can be made, unlike cars with 4 wheel independent suspension, Maxima, Altima, Camry, Accord et al, which can require 4 wheel "thrust" alignment. Be watchful for dealers, or anybody who would try to sell a 4 wheel thrust alignment, as it would be a ruse to sell a more expensive alignment.

Many alignments are really no more than "checks" of alignments, or simple adjustments to the toe, which is where the steering wheel not pointing straight ahead got screwed up. I've fixed this problem myself by loosening the tie rod lock nuts, and wrenched both tie rod adjusters in the same direction, by the same amount. Since one is left hand thread and the other right hand thread, turning them both by the same amount in the same direction does not change the actual toe spec, it just re-centers your steering wheel. Often times, alignments only adjust the toe, and not the camber or caster, both of which have an effect of veering but are harder to adjust. On many trucks, a factory plug has to be drilled out before the adjustment can be made. Once removed, the new adjustment is also less likely to "hold" for this very reason, so one should be reluctant to adjust camber or caster unless certain it's out of spec. In the case of Titan I looked, found no plugs. Caster/camber is set by loosening the (2) large bolts holding the upper control arm to the frame. Adjusting is thereafter by trial and error. The technician using a Hunter alignment system will attach a transmitter to each wheel. The transmitter radio links back to the computer the wheel alignment spec, no more optical alignments with mirrors. The technician will adjust the upper control arm bolts repeatedly by trial and error until the computer puts the spec "in the green."

Alignments as delivered from the factory are usually the best it gets unless you hit something to knock it out, or got something bent. The factories use a rolling, road force alignment that's faster on the assembly line and more accurate too. For most people, I would use caution with alignments. Watch them do it, and better to verify it as a check of alignment only, unless you really trust the technician.

One last...

A sadly easy and unfortunate way to screw up your 4 wheel alignment is by using lift jacks on the wrong places on the frame. Our Titan fully boxed frame while strong, is still quite malleable and soft metal, easily bent as with all ladder frames. Looking underneath mine just before making this post, I noted there are jacking point arrows where it is reinforced, although not much help if you you are offroad you have to get the jack where you can get it. Also noted a pathetically dinky rear differential. Looks like it holds about a thimble of oil, and found one loose bolt backing out from my running board mount, but that's another story...

[Tom Roper]

I'd also refer back to the title of this topic, "Tough Alignment."

Looking at the front suspension of the Titan, I would disagree with that assessment. The Titan looks to be as simple and easy as any truck I have owned, very straightforward.

[Titan Power]

I recently took my Titan in for an alignment. They diagnosed the problem as tire pull. They played musical chairs with the tires, and ended up replacing one of them. This was with the 265/70/18 Goodyears. The truck tracks much better now.

Jason K.