2005 Titan Option Packages Messed Up - Page 2

scubakleev · 09-14-2004, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardminco

I have a copy of the dealer option list with dependencies for the 05. This is not BS.

oh ok, sorry. guess you have the details written down

scubakleev · 09-15-2004, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMADOGMAN

Scuba, I have not met a salesman who knew much about the vehicle that I was interested in...and NEVER have I met one who knew as much about it as I did.
They don't want to know all of the details, they just want to get to the "Volume Sales Level" so that they can make more commission on each sale. Maybe it is difficult to learn all about every vehicle that they sell, but it would be nice if they knew the basics...

I hear that, I would be nice if they new the basic's. I know they do go through a class to learn each vehicle, like what options comes with what and what have you. Some of them pay more attention then others. I guess getting in depth about the exhaust would be a little too much for a salesman. But what about the radio mumbo jumbo he was telling? think he was just pulling that out of his arse

TriKKy · 09-15-2004, 07:02 AM

If the VDC functions anywhere nearly as well as the VSC on my Honda, I am very happy it is there. I drove around all last winter and I cant tell you how many times that thing kicked on...granted I was in a front wheel drive automatic car...but still. I don't plan on putting the truck in 4x4 too often even with the lousy winters we get...it just isn't necessary all the time even with over 12 feet of snow we get.

I will say that on the Honda there are times where it definitely came on at inappropriate times, but it still helped a lot more than it hurt. As far as you guys "knowing how to drive" that is all well and good...but no matter what, you are nowhere near as fast as the computer.

mikegronholz · 09-15-2004, 07:11 AM

richardminco - Do you currently own a vehicle with VDC ? Not trying to be a pain here, but if you don't how can you be confident in the way it works ? Sure you can read about it as I did with my Z, but until you actually drive a car/truck with VDC, don't think it is the end all safety solution. In the example you mentioned - black ice - VDC will be able to do very little for you if the patch is very large at all. VDC will do the following (this is from my personal experience in both the Titan and 350Z):

- At a stop light, the rear tires squak - engine power is reduced and in an auto tranny, the tranny disengages slightly to remove power from the rear end

- Going around turns if the sensors sense the car pushing and slipage is occuring, it will apply pressure to the brakes to slow the car back in to the correct path (on a road course in the Z, with VDC on, you just put your foot down and turn) - although this may seem beneficial in ice/snow ... remember the 50% of braking is the tire's grip on the road ... hit ice, all bets are off and in my personal experience, VDC was more of a hinderance on ice because me the driver had NO CLUE what the computer was going to do when I got traction back.

That is really all VDC has ever done for me anywhere. Only times I EVER thought it was useful was when I was hot rodding on dry pravement or when I didn't want to spin tire through the intersection on damp pavement. Again, i am not sure if you have even used VDC before, but I have on dry, wet, snow covered and unfortunately ice before. There were my experiences. The safety of my family was much greater after I learned how the car itself would react and drove it accordingly. With that said ...

VDC DID save my a$$ twice:

1. - going up an off ramp near my house ... about 90* out and this is a 270* exit ramp ... very fun at 70mph !!! Being it was warm and dry, VDC was off. As I started to go up, the car began to push a little (tire was losing traction due to something on the road) ... I quickly hit the VDC button and it snapped around and up I went ... saved me from going off the embankment ... possibly

2. - cruising down the highway at about 70mph ... wet roads ... not raining any longer. All the sudden ... STOP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ... I nailed the brakes and swerved to mis some idiot ... backend started to slide, but VDC took over and saved me from a grim end with the center divider.

Lessons learned ...

- VDC does nothing for you on dry pavement unless you are being STUPID !!! (yes I was)

- VDC can help in wet weather - but remember, to stop, the TIRES MUST HAVE TRACTION

go to www.my350z.com and look at the forums. 99% of those with VDC turn it OFF when dry and on when wet ... there is a reason !!! As a side note, VDC also does not let the engine perform to its potential (and some of you are going to call BS) ... I and many others have proven this on a chassis dyno ... its not much, like 2% or so, but it is still robbing you of power. Also, having a car with VDC saved me nothing on insurance as compared to non-VDC equipped cars, but taking a driving school class DID save me money because I learned how to correct for wet roads, ice, and how to properly handle an out of control car. Insurance companies aren't stupid when it comes to their rates. They want to charge as much as possible.

So:

VDC = 0
Learn how to handle your car in adverse conditions = 10%

Again, i am not trying to be an a$$, but these are real experiences not my opinions.

TriKKy · 09-15-2004, 07:19 AM

So the two times it saved your a$s made it = 0?

Anyway, like I said above, in SNOW while turning it was awesome (on Honda). On dry roads it is crap and would screw up your brakes if it came on too much.

Titanoholic · 09-15-2004, 07:25 AM

Well if Nissan is not going to allow me to get VDC on the 2005 model, I guess they just lost a customer, I will go get a Toyota instead. Safety is a high priority for me and I love it on my wife's Honda...works very well.

TriKKy · 09-15-2004, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoCougsKev

Well if Nissan is not going to allow me to get VDC on the 2005 model, I guess they just lost a customer, I will go get a Toyota instead. Safety is a high priority for me and I love it on my wife's Honda...works very well.

I wouldn't go blowing things out of proportion here. There is NO substitution for a safe driver...period. VDC is a heck of a lot less important than airbags, abs, etc. Think of all the people that manage to get by without it. I don't think something like VDC should sway you one way or the other. It's a nice feature, true, but there are more things to weigh.

JerseyDirt · 09-15-2004, 07:51 AM

WOW, first Nissan wouldn't allow you to get VDC with the E-locker which made no sense since the two can be made to function together and now they want to get rid of VDC all together on 4X4s? This is getting ridiculous. I personally don't care for VDC but I certainly respect anyones desire to have this potential safety feature. The benefit of VDC is that it can brake individual wheels which is impossible to do for the driver with a brake pedal. While this is no guarantee for accident avoidance, it may help get your vehicle back on track in certain situations. If it saves your A$$ one time it will pay for itself. Bottom line is if you don't like VDC either don't get it or turn it off with the VDC-OFF switch but this decision should be left to the consumer, not Nissan.

Tom Roper · 09-15-2004, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriKKy

I wouldn't go blowing things out of proportion here. There is NO substitution for a safe driver...period. VDC is a heck of a lot less important than airbags, abs, etc. Think of all the people that manage to get by without it. I don't think something like VDC should sway you one way or the other. It's a nice feature, true, but there are more things to weigh.

These are all value judgments we make.

- Personally, I don't like ABS particularly, since it sacrifices braking distance to insure you stop straight.

- I think 5 point safety harness, roll cage and wearing helmets is a lot safer than air bags, which can also kill you.

- Anyone still living has probably gotten by fine without VDC as well.

I think VDC, which works all the time, is going to save more people than E-locker which only works in low-range, my $0.02. But I'm glad consumers (mostly) have a choice. E-Locker sounds like a better offroad choice, and VDC a better choice for foul weather driving on streets.

JerseyDirt · 09-15-2004, 08:32 AM

On a side note; I hope no one (especially Nissan) considers the e-locker to be a safety device as it IS NOT. The e-locker is an off-roading aid designed to get you out of a mudhole or some other sticky situation while in 4Lo. The VDC is designed to regain vehicle control during regular highway driving on slippery surfaces. Only the VDC can be considered a safety feature. The two devices have very different functions and should not be mutually exclusive.

JD

rickp · 09-15-2004, 09:36 AM

Does this mean my 04 2WD LE CC with BT/VDC/Airbags is worth more.

SupraTitan · 09-15-2004, 10:08 AM

Lets not forget in the late 90's when VDC was introduced on the R34 Nissan Skyline GT-R that car set the production car lap time record at the Nurburgring. I remember reading about it and how the directly attributed the success to the "yaw stability control". I'm not sure the record still stands but it was a huge suprise to all auto makers when the skyline pulled this off, after all any automaker serious about making sports cars pulls laps at the ring. Its a pretty trick system, don't fool yourself into thinking you can make the titan handle better with it off, unless your dead set on drifting you can't. If you find it to be intrusive chances are your to abrupt with the throttle. I can't believe people complain about it, its benefits novice drivers as well as experienced drivers it just takes a little getting use to.

Quad T · 09-15-2004, 10:21 AM

Well if these changes are actually true, and I'm not doubting richardminco so much as I'm doubting Nissan really knows exactly what they are doing in '05, I'm not so sure I'm unhappy about not getting VDC because I must have a 4x4.

What I will eventually want to know is if I can get the Big Tow without the Off-Road and still be able to get the rear locker....

Will I be able to get a sunroof in an SE...

Will I be able to get the rear side compartment without utili-track and spray in bed liner...

Will I be able to get the rumored electronic rear window in an SE KC...

Titanoholic · 09-15-2004, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriKKy

I wouldn't go blowing things out of proportion here. There is NO substitution for a safe driver...period. VDC is a heck of a lot less important than airbags, abs, etc. Think of all the people that manage to get by without it. I don't think something like VDC should sway you one way or the other. It's a nice feature, true, but there are more things to weigh.

Well if indeed nissan is not going to offer VDC, then it just shows me Nissan doesn't have their priorities straight. If they want to take a safety feature away, then I will take my busness elsewhere. I have never had a ticket in my life nor have I caused an accident, but I know when I was in my wifes accord and we got cutoff by a jackass causing use to turn very quickly, I know the car would have gone into a spin without VDC. We ended up sliding sideways for at least 50 yards, but that was all and the car was very easy to regain control while the VDC light was on during the whole skid. My next truck WILL have it.

TriKKy · 09-15-2004, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quad T

Well if these changes are actually true, and I'm not doubting richardminco so much as I'm doubting Nissan really knows exactly what they are doing in '05, I'm not so sure I'm unhappy about not getting VDC because I must have a 4x4.

What I will eventually want to know is if I can get the Big Tow without the Off-Road and still be able to get the rear locker....

Will I be able to get a sunroof in an SE...

Will I be able to get the rear side compartment without utili-track and spray in bed liner...

Will I be able to get the rumored electronic rear window in an SE KC...

I was under impression that the CC only would get the down window.