Detroit Locker, ARB air locker, Easton e-locker

[loufish]

I just noticed that one of the Titans at the SEMA how has a Detroit TruTrack LSD in it...

http://www.nissannews.com/multimedia...04_sema013.jpg

Are these out yet?

[NorCal 4x4]

Hey Sammy,

I split up your responses so I could address your comments on an individual basis. Keep in mind that I know where you are coming from, and agree with most of what you stated, but I wanted to clarify my position.

Originally Posted by sammy sandbag

I was speaking strickly about the Titan, and I noted it was my personal opinion that I don't feel it necissary for a full size Truck, especially an IFS "new" type of truck.

I was in fact asking for your opinion, because you seem to be very knowledgeable, (from reading your posts on other threads. Plus in this case, (and maybe the others too), you backup your statements with articles, where many others make statements without any supporting evidence).

Originally Posted by sammy sandbag

As that author mentioned, it depends on your terrain you plan to cover. If I were building a trail rig right now, it'd definately have a user-selectable locker up front, as well as some sort of traction aid in the rear (either automtic-locker or user selectable.) But that's a trail rig, not my everyday hauler, the Titan.

Just like the rear E-LOCK®, the front E-LOCK®, would be only selectable in 4LO, and limited to 12 MPH, or less. As you know, for everyday use even 4HI is not used, so I don't see the difference here, other than worse for the front if misused.

Originally Posted by sammy sandbag

I'm sure the Titan's front end is beefy, as far as IFS's go, but that's still pretty weak compared to a SFA setup. Like I said earlier, I don't see why you'd ever want or happen to get your Titan into a situation where a front locker is needed.

This is new/good information for me on the front end strength. However, for some situations, the front E-LOCK® sounds like it would be a better choice. That is why I said that I wish I had the versatility dictated by the particular situation. For example the author mentions the front's better ability in sand and also:
"This is especially so for independent front suspension vehicles which easily lift a wheel even on modest terrain."

Originally Posted by sammy sandbag

If you already have the E-locker or ABLS, you should be covered well. My last 4x4 had open diffs front and rear and I rarely got stuck even on the nastiest mud holes (ground clearance was the usual constraining factor.) Regardless of any of this, I seriously doubt you'll ever see a user selectable locker for the front end of the Titan, but who knows. There are a few out there, ARB makes them for the H2, Jeep Liberty, F-150 (with 8.8" RG), all the IZUZUs and Mitsubishi and Toyotas.

Yes covered well, but again the versatility could be that much better with both.

Originally Posted by sammy sandbag

(earlier post, this thread) As someone mentioned earlier, you have too many people who don't understand the use and limits, and would be lined up at dealerships across the country wondering why they have snapped front-end parts. A independent front end setup can't take the amount of punishment that a locker and 300+ hp engine are capable of dishing out, especially when people would attempt to use them on high traction surfaces while turning.

At first glance this seems to be a good reason for a manufacturer to not offer it, but there are simple ways to protect against this. As an example a loud audible alarm if the steering wheel is turned, and a length of event time-stamp recorded to memory for litigation purposes when some idiot proceeds to turn it anyway.

I personally don't want, not to be able to purchase a product because of others' misuse, (just a personal responsibility thing/freedom issue with me), sort of like the way more idiots will accidentally blow themselves away with pistol than a rifle, but I don't ever want to see pistols banned because of clumsy people.

Anyway, thanks again for the information. I have learned a lot from your posts.

[Sammy Sandbag]

Just like the rear E-LOCK®, the front E-LOCK®, would be only selectable in 4LO, and limited to 12 MPH, or less. As you know, for everyday use even 4HI is not used, so I don't see the difference here, other than worse for the front if misused.

Well here's where you run into a problem. If a manufacturer were to offer a front end locker, they surely would speed limit it. But any one who's off-roaded before would know that you'll often need a whole lot more wheel spin than 12 MPH to get anywhere. Slick rock, mud, and sand all require liberal amounts of throttle. Your MTs won't clear at 12MPH, and sand usually requires a whole lotta wheel speed. So basically that front end locker will probably end up causing you to get stuck more than it will getting you unstuck. The Rubicon owners realized this and found a simple rewiring "fix" that allows for locked axles with any speed (although you are still limited by your engine rev limiter, which with a 4:1 x-case ratio and 4.11 gears is pretty low), which is how it should be (as long as you know what you are doing)

By everday use, I meant, do you really use your titan as a trail rig or in any capacity where a front end locker would be needed? If you do, then go for it. But I'm willing to bet the vast majority of Titan owners aren't too keen on rock crawling their $30K+ truck around Tellico. But I guess if I had money to burn, I'd be nice to have every add-on and doo-dad imaginable... just in case .

This is new/good information for me on the front end strength. However, for some situations, the front E-LOCK® sounds like it would be a better choice. That is why I said that I wish I had the versatility dictated by the particular situation. For example the author mentions the front's better ability in sand and also:
"This is especially so for independent front suspension vehicles which easily lift a wheel even on modest terrain."

Again, if the Titan (or any IFS vehicle) is your only option in a trail rig, then by all means, give it all the help you can. I'm just stating that it'd be better off if you were to use something else (preferably with SFA) to take on the serious trails. Yes a IFS vehicle will lift a wheel much easier, another reason not to use it for offroad, but there are alot of other factors that come into play. If you have the ABLS, it should work fine in "moderate" terrain.

At first glance this seems to be a good reason for a manufacturer to not offer it, but there are simple ways to protect against this. As an example a loud audible alarm if the steering wheel is turned, and a length of event time-stamp recorded to memory for litigation purposes when some idiot proceeds to turn it anyway.

Hey, you and me both, but I'd like to see it without any of the warnings or extra uneeded electronics. But vehicles (especially fullsize trucks) aren't marketed for people to use as pure off-road vehicles. The number crunchers spent lots of time and money to figure out the best package to satisfy the most customers. Adding a rear locker is a bonus, but a front locker is going above and beyond. The Jeep Rubicon is priced at $28k MSRP, now imagine the price of a similarly equipped Titan. Also remember that the Titan sports the standard affair of 1/2 ton running gear, not really beefy, just meeting the industry standards, in fact it shares the same rear axle that the 1/4 ton Rubicon comes with both front and rear (and the Titan probably weighs in about 2,000lbs more.)

I personally don't want, not to be able to purchase a product because of others' misuse, (just a personal responsibility thing/freedom issue with me), sort of like the way more idiots will accidentally blow themselves away with pistol than a rifle, but I don't ever want to see pistols banned because of clumsy people.

Welcome to America, the most litigious country in the world. Often our personal freedoms (as consumers) are lost for the protection of the uninformed masses.

[OnebadSE]

http://www.truckworld.com/Truck-Test...uperduty2.html

Only the 4X4 F-350s are SFA, otherwise they get IFS for 05. Seeing as most people don't really off-road, it seems like they're shooting for the smoother ride and better handling.

[Sammy Sandbag]

Ahh.. well I wasn't even considering the 2WD models. It's not suprising that they are going IFS for the rear wheel drives, since I believe Dodge has been on theirs. The '91 and earlier Chevys had SFA on the 4WD models and IFS on the 2WD models, nothing new.

Seeing as most people don't really off-road, it seems like they're shooting for the smoother ride and better handling.

Well off-road ability isn't even a factor considering it's 2WD models we're talking about. The only reason they've kept the way it has been is that it is much cheaper to maintain identical front suspension (leaf) between both models. I believe the new 2WD models will be twin I-beam however, much like the old Fords.

[pciley]

My neighbor just put a detroit locker in his lowered Tacoma. He says he can dump the clutch at a higher RPM to launch and not get embarassed by doing a one-legged burn out. That is, he now has two wheels burning instead of one and he can launch faster, he says...
His buddy that comes over often has the SAME locker in his LIFTED Prerunner Taco. He says, with 2wd, he can go in sand, etc without getting stuck "as much."

I want to ask you guys.. I am involved in both these situations. I am sick of one-legged burnouts at the track, and I also want to get around better at Glamis. Right now, I have to HAUL A$$ in the sand so I won't get stuck. My stock suspension obviously can't keep up off-road with the speed that is required to make it up a hill with an ineffective 'one-wheel-drive' truck.
From what they say, if you are going around a turn with little or no throttle, the locker WONT Lock, but if you hit the gas, it will turn the inside wheel just as fast and will throw you sideways. I like that. You just have to know how to drive responsibly.
Is their solution realistic for the Titan as well, or are they "FOS?"
I will ask the exact brand and name and get back on here tomorrow for more feedback. They were both skeptical that the same company offered anything for the Titan yet.

[Sammy Sandbag]

Detroit offers several different versions of auto lockers, from the very minimal that simply drops into the carrier, to full on carrier replacements. Their models vary in overall strength, smoothness of engagement, and noise. Like they said, with a traditional auto-lockers, gasing it in a turn can be very dangerous.

http://www.jpmagazine.com/techarticles/46598/
http://www.truckworld.com/How-To-Tec...ers-Diffs.html

[pciley]

... I was way off.
Its called a Power Trax they both bought from Richmond Gears in So. Carolina.
They just took their diffs apart and replaced a certain part on each side and put back together, not a new differential, reused factory ring and pinion.
I don't know what all the parts of a diff are called, I've only seen the inside of mine when I took the cover off to check it out.
I am told that the Titan's rear axle is very close in design to the Jeep Ribicon's rear axle. Does that mean we should be able to buy the upgrades available for the "Dana 44?" I'm guessing since Nissan tells us we have a Dana axle that it is not really. Kind of like the Rockford Foster stereo, and the nice thin "Linex" spray-in bedliner that bubbles.

http://www.powertrax.com/truckssuv.html

"Smooth, quiet operation"

[Sammy Sandbag]

The powertrax is by the same people who make the Lock-Right. Both are drop in type traction aids that basically drop into the case and replace the spider gears. Detroit makes the same thing, called the E-Z Locker. Neither of these are as stong as a "full" locker and are only recommended for "light" off road use or "occasional" use, which might be all you need, just keep in mind that the Titan is pretty hefty and powerful. I would think the Dana 44 version of either of those models would work for the Titan, as long as you had the right axle shaft size and spline count.

[markislive78]

Yea...

I think so many people should quit backing this ABLS bullish. If you are a true off roader or performance enthusiast you want as many tires turning as possible. You know that just because a tire is spining doesn't mean that it is not still pulling and should be shut down ABLS must have only been invented for saftey to keep goons from slipping off of the road...it will only alow for 1 tire front/or rear per differerential to really pull at a time unless you have the rear e-locker some 4wd only so what are you left with?....only 2 or 3 tires spinning..damn i thought yall bought a 4wd.

[OnebadSE]

Originally Posted by markislive78

Yea...

I think so many people should quit backing this ABLS bullish. If you are a true off roader or performance enthusiast you want as many tires turning as possible. You know that just because a tire is spining doesn't mean that it is not still pulling and should be shut down ABLS must have only been invented for saftey to keep goons from slipping off of the road...it will only alow for 1 tire front/or rear per differerential to really pull at a time unless you have the rear e-locker some 4wd only so what are you left with?....only 2 or 3 tires spinning..damn i thought yall bought a 4wd.

You need to understand how an open differential works before throwing the ABLS to the wind. The ABLS DOES allow for true 4WD traction (or two wheel on 4X2s). And is very effective. it doesn't STOP the spinning wheel, it slows it enough to allow power to be sent to the opposite wheel. No, it's no locker nor does it claim to be. It's a traction aid.
If you've ever gotten stuck in a RWD vehicle with an open differential, you've ben pissed watching that right rear spin and spin. If you had ABLS, that would not happen. Power would be transfered to the other wheel so both wheels now have power.
Now this is NOT meant for rock-crawling! For that you'd want a locker. But for 90 some odd percent of Titan drivers, on-road use will be most of Titans usage, the ABLS will do just fine. Just don't confuse it with a locker.

[calgary_redneck]

Originally Posted by pciley

... I was way off.
Its called a Power Trax they both bought from Richmond Gears in So. Carolina.
They just took their diffs apart and replaced a certain part on each side and put back together, not a new differential, reused factory ring and pinion.
I don't know what all the parts of a diff are called, I've only seen the inside of mine when I took the cover off to check it out.
I am told that the Titan's rear axle is very close in design to the Jeep Ribicon's rear axle. Does that mean we should be able to buy the upgrades available for the "Dana 44?" I'm guessing since Nissan tells us we have a Dana axle that it is not really. Kind of like the Rockford Foster stereo, and the nice thin "Linex" spray-in bedliner that bubbles.

http://www.powertrax.com/truckssuv.html

"Smooth, quiet operation"

Every type of limited slip or locker I can think of allows you to reuse your existing ring and pinion(assuming its the same series), what you are trying to say is that it allows you to reuse the carrier

[Sammy Sandbag]

You are right calgary. Detroit makes a similar product to PowerTrax's Lock Right that is called the Detroit E-Z Locker. They simply replace the spider gears within the carrier. The axle shaft's splined sections slide into either side of the "drop-in" locker. Keep in mind that these type of lockers will be weaker that a full automatic locker and still have the same negative side-effects.

[pciley]

Cool! Thanks for the help. I would consider my off-road usage to be light, no more than 2 to 4 days a month, and slow at that (speed limited by the factory suspension). I would be needing something similiar to a PowerTrax just as a traction aid in the sand, don't really go over 30-40 mph.
Again, would also be nice for the 1/4 mile track to have two wheels turning when you launch.

The PowerTrax is advertised as being "quiet.. unlike other locking diff kits.."