Interesting tid-bit

GO_VOLS! · 06-30-2005, 06:23 AM

I just read this. It's surprising how well GM is doing, but they are perceived to be the worst. They also have the 4 most efficient plants in N.A., but you never hear about that either. Granted, the models that are built in those plants are ancient and well established, but they're still on top. Just goes to show that the media can paint any picture they want and make everybody believe what the media wants. Kinda like the war in Iraq.

"Toyota's Lexus brand is once again the top finisher in J.D. Power's annual Vehicle Dependability Survey, the company reported on Wednesday. The survey, which measures the owner-judged reliability of three-year-old vehicles, also shows that General Motors and Ford have made big improvements in the dependability of their vehicles since the last study. For the 2002 model year, the industry as a while improved by 12 percent, with an industry average of 237 problems per 100 vehicles, down from 269 problems per 100 in the prior year. Almost every manufacturer scored an improvement, the survey showed, with Lexus posting 139 problems per 100 vehicles, the best in the report. In individual categories, General Motors posted the best vehicle in eight of 19 categories, including the Geo Prizm, Buick LeSabre and Chevy S-10; Ford won five segments and Toyota, four. The most improved brand in the survey was Hyundai, which went from 375 to 260 problems per 100 vehicles; however, cousin Kia had the worst showing in the survey, at 397 problems per 100."

**HudsonValleyTitan** · 06-30-2005, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GO_VOLS!

I just read this. It's surprising how well GM is doing, but they are perceived to be the worst. They also have the 4 most efficient plants in N.A., but you never hear about that either. Granted, the models that are built in those plants are ancient and well established, but they're still on top. Just goes to show that the media can paint any picture they want and make everybody believe what the media wants. Kinda like the war in Iraq.

"Toyota's Lexus brand is once again the top finisher in J.D. Power's annual Vehicle Dependability Survey, the company reported on Wednesday. The survey, which measures the owner-judged reliability of three-year-old vehicles, also shows that General Motors and Ford have made big improvements in the dependability of their vehicles since the last study. For the 2002 model year, the industry as a while improved by 12 percent, with an industry average of 237 problems per 100 vehicles, down from 269 problems per 100 in the prior year. Almost every manufacturer scored an improvement, the survey showed, with Lexus posting 139 problems per 100 vehicles, the best in the report. In individual categories, General Motors posted the best vehicle in eight of 19 categories, including the Geo Prizm, Buick LeSabre and Chevy S-10; Ford won five segments and Toyota, four. The most improved brand in the survey was Hyundai, which went from 375 to 260 problems per 100 vehicles; however, cousin Kia had the worst showing in the survey, at 397 problems per 100."

What's been said lately is that GM can't sell their products. I don't recall anyone claiming they made complete junk. They're building old, out of date vehicles that the public isn't buying. GM doesn't want to spend the money to update or keep up with technology like other manufacturers are doing. The article claiming that their products have gotten better quality-wise, means nothing. Besides...how old is that article?.....GM doesn't even make the GEO brand name anymore.

GO_VOLS! · 06-30-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HudsonValleyTitan

how old is that article?.....GM doesn't even make the GEO brand name anymore.

This article was posted TODAY at thecarconnection.com. Look it up if you want.

My point was, people perceive GM as building junk. Talk to your co-workers about it, you'll see. Again, I agreed, already, that GM's stuff is out of date. It just surprises me that people have such a poor perception of their quality. Even I though it was all crap, but aparently, they're doing pretty well quality wise.

HackinHound · 06-30-2005, 11:17 AM

It was GM's quality and a dealership that refused to address the problems that put them on my Never Buy Another GM Product Again list. So far my Nissan dealer has been good.

GETSOMZ28 · 06-30-2005, 12:46 PM

Tell the person who has a broke car that their model is the most dependable. My wife had a Malibu and I made her get rid of it since so many things went wrong with it. It is rated as the most reliable car in its class. I would still buy a GM (Corvette, Camaro, truck), but not any of the passenger cars.

I am not loyal to any maker since they all make crap in one form or another.

What kind of metric is "plant efficiency" It sure isnt a measure of quality.

GO_VOLS! · 06-30-2005, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GETSOMZ28

What kind of metric is "plant efficiency" It sure isnt a measure of quality.

There's a few different types of measurements for Plant efficiency. One of them is the measure of how long it takes to build a vehicle. Nissan's Smyra plant has usually been the one to beat for as long as I can remember for that one. Another is output (QTY of vehicles) vs. assembly workers. Then another is the measure of inventory (JIT or Lean Manufacturing). I'm not sure which this was, but that's what JD Power is reporting about GM and they're quoting it in their comercials now-a-days.

I used to drive a GMC Safari minivan when I was 16 - 18. I beat the living crap out of that thing and it somehow survived it all. We got rid of it when it had 120K on it and my parents got a Dodge Durango - boy what a mistake! That thing was in the shop more than the old van was.

GETSOMZ28 · 06-30-2005, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GO_VOLS!

There's a few different types of measurements for Plant efficiency. One of them is the measure of how long it takes to build a vehicle. Nissan's Smyra plant has usually been the one to beat for as long as I can remember for that one. Another is output (QTY of vehicles) vs. assembly workers. Then another is the measure of inventory (JIT or Lean Manufacturing). I'm not sure which this was, but that's what JD Power is reporting about GM and they're quoting it in their comercials now-a-days.

I used to drive a GMC Safari minivan when I was 16 - 18. I beat the living crap out of that thing and it somehow survived it all. We got rid of it when it had 120K on it and my parents got a Dodge Durango - boy what a mistake! That thing was in the shop more than the old van was.

Understood. I was just making a point that the "plant efficiency" metric has nothing to do with the quality of vehicles that are produced. I have had pretty good luck with most makes of vehicles that have lasted and never had problems (Ford, Pontiac, Chevy, Nissan, and Honda). On the other hand, the worst vehicles I had have been Dodge, Chevy, and Nissan.

I would equally consider all makes (other than Kia and Suzuki).

vw1972bugs · 06-30-2005, 03:50 PM

Gentlemen...please let me demonstrate why people don't buy GM products.

Ok lets see here...

In 1998 all of Chevys interiors (Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, Cheyenne etc.) looked like this.

In 2005 all of the same vehicles STILL have very similar interiors including new models such as the Avalanche and the Escalade that look like this.

This is why people don't purchase GM vehicles. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

4x4creature · 06-30-2005, 06:52 PM

Well the same can be said for all manufactors, the basic's are the same overall. I' mean how much can you change it and not look like you are not copying someone elses look?

Look at the nissian path finder, It still has the same basic looks. Dodge is the same way

keiffers · 06-30-2005, 07:14 PM

What I found kinda funny about that news story (that showed up on just about every news outlet) was that Nissan was not mentioned at all. Yeah it mentioned the Geo and all, but never said anything about Nissan. Just found that kinda interesting

**HudsonValleyTitan** · 06-30-2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GO_VOLS!

This article was posted TODAY at thecarconnection.com. Look it up if you want.

My point was, people perceive GM as building junk. Talk to your co-workers about it, you'll see. Again, I agreed, already, that GM's stuff is out of date. It just surprises me that people have such a poor perception of their quality. Even I though it was all crap, but aparently, they're doing pretty well quality wise.

We got the point and I wasn't so much disagreeing with you as I was pointing out that the article seems outdated. (also, initial quality doesn't mean longevity)

"In individual categories, General Motors posted the best vehicle in eight of 19 categories, including the Geo Prizm, Buick LeSabre and Chevy S-10;"

Geo hasn't existed for some time so how can it newly be best in any catagory? lol. GM isn't known for their high quality...no, but again it's their refusal to update their vehicles, as other manufacturers have, that's causing buyers to go elsewhere. That is GMs problem. Other than maybe watercooler heresay, there's never been accusations of GM building substandard vehicles. At least not in the industry.
BTW, it should be easy to build a vehicle right....lets face it, these vehicles have been the same for MANY years. They should be getting it right by now....nothing changes at GM.

TOK · 06-30-2005, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keiffers

What I found kinda funny about that news story (that showed up on just about every news outlet) was that Nissan was not mentioned at all. Yeah it mentioned the Geo and all, but never said anything about Nissan. Just found that kinda interesting

I saw the article in the paper, but didn't read it yet. Am I understanding correctly that this is a 3 year survey? If you told me 3 years ago that I was going to be driving a Nissan, I would have laughed at the notion. There was no Titan, a pathetically supercharged Frontier that was ugly as hell and wheezed along slower than the normally aspirated Tacoma, and the cars were an absolute snoozefest.
Nissan was just waking up after years of crappy sales and near bankruptcy. The current generation V6 Altima was the first car that got so much as a second glance from me since the demise of the 300ZX.

If this is the survey I'm thinking of, 3 years ago, Nissan was just waking up from nearly 10 years of making boring, ugly, underacheiving cars. It doesn't surprise me they weren't even a blip on the report. Watch the next one!