MPG fanatics-latest lame plan.

PHOEBISIS · 08-07-2005, 08:16 PM

Ok,I know there are mpg fanatics out there,so give me some feedback on this latest lame plan to improve my MPG.
Oh,for all you"but if you wanted good mpg you shouldn't have bought a truck,and if you wanted fast you should have bought a sports car etc"-just take a pass on this thread.
I have a set of Centerline 17x8" wheels coming in-they are supposed to be 20 lbs-about 11.5 less than steel XE wheels,and 5.5 lbs less than the Offroad 17' I use now.
I'm thinking about putting some small 235/65 17 Michelin tires on the front.They are the "Energy series" which are supposed to be lower rolling resistance-so it should improve mpg by decreasing rolling resistance,and by being lighter(I'll get them used off Ebay).It will also drop the front end by a bit over an inch,since they are a bit more than 2" shorter than the 245/75 tires.I'm hoping that the drop might reduce drag a tiny bit.I might get one of the Armada front spoilers-but this 1st.I'll use the regular stock 245/75 X17 on the rear because I don't want to "lower" the gearing.I also might put some PRG 3/4" SHACKLES on to decrease the dropped nose look a bit(maybe drop the drag a little also.Now,I don't expect to get a measurable increase in mpg,but....
Ok,why is this a bad idea?Thanks.Charlie PS Any other mpg maxing ideas out there??

markinho · 08-07-2005, 08:57 PM

As far as your idea goes: I like it.

I just got a Titan and am loving it for all it can do.

Oh yeah, and the first official mod I actually paid money for (the first was a cathartic debadging of all the door and bumper chrome emblems) was that Armada air dam that goes under the bumper.

This is the kind of out-of-the-box thinking that helped created the Titan's strong points and this is exactly what will keep Titan drivers getting the most out of the truck.

Saving weight around the wheels has got to help decrease rolling resistance on some level. From my bicycle racing days I remember it being said that a wheel with a larger diamer will take longer to get up to speed and slow down (that's why those dudes with the 22's and spinners encounter control problems) but will be easier to maintain speed once they've accelerated. A smaller diameter wheel is easier to control, but is less stable or efficient at higher speeds.

If you can maintain the 17" wheels but at the same time reduce their overall weight (lighter materials) and decrease rolling resistance (higher tire pressure, efficient tread design) then how could you not have a truck that gets better MPG while at the same time retains its supreme TITAN FUNCTIONALITY?

Let us know how things work out!

Oh yeah, speaking of bicycle racing days, here's a good one for you. Some guys would do anything to get a weight advantage on a bicycle because the more weight you have to haul, the harder it is to pedal. At least with a large truck, the only pain is watching the dial continue spinnin at the gas pump.

Anyway, some guys would spend $200 on a fancy seat that weighed just ounces, among other ridiculous things. The funny thing was that some people fussed and obsessed over their bicycle's weight instead of doing what mattered: TRAINING! Some guys would even go out on long competitive rides on blistering hot days with ONLY ONE WATER BOTTLE-not two. It gets even better: some guys would only carry HALF A WATER BOTTLE.

So anything we can do to enjoy our trucks more or to get them to function better, I am all for it.

But the day I see a Titan owner advocating driving around with only a half a tank of gas or less just to save weight . . .

aww forgetaboutit!

Bayou Titan · 08-07-2005, 09:01 PM

The thing that everyone needs to keep in mind is the fact that the difference between good gas mileage and the mileage that the Titan gets is only about $700 a year. Figure out how to cut $700 a year somewhere else and you won't have to worry about gas mileage.

PHOEBISIS · 08-07-2005, 11:07 PM

markinho,funny you should mention bicycles.I became close to a weight nut with the bicycles.I still have a Mercian frame with the Reynolds super light 5-3-1 tubing that you could squeeze(and feel it dent inward) with you finger.I think they recommended no one oer 150 and no frame more than 52 cm or something like that.I don't make the weight anymore,so I ride a carbon fiber Trek Y-22(old fashioned suspension,but I like the light weight).
Bayou,yeah,the mpg mission isn't really practical,I doubt the lighter wheels,dropped nose,airdam, would get me 1/10 mpg,but it is like making your truck faster,or lower,taller,different looking-not practical,no real payoff-just fun.Thanks.Charlie

**P's Titan** · 08-07-2005, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayou Titan

The thing that everyone needs to keep in mind is the fact that the difference between good gas mileage and the mileage that the Titan gets is only about $700 a year. Figure out how to cut $700 a year somewhere else and you won't have to worry about gas mileage.

Very good point. Also, I know it's very hard to do but if you don't gun it at every stop light/sign, freeway, etc.. and drive it like it is slow you will get a lil better mileage. I have done this experiment myself and noticed I got alot more miles to the tank that when I race and gun this bad boy.

tnbowhunter · 08-08-2005, 08:50 AM

No offence Charlie but it sounds like your going to spend over a grand to save $500.00. If in deed you do save $500.00. Yeah I know that's just for one year and it will probably pay for itself in time. But I also think you are compromising the looks of your truck with the skinny tires and the lowered front. I don't think your truck is a 4X4 so lowering it won't make it look too bad. And I also realize that some people like "that look." But not me.
But hey it's your truck, you may be on to somthing. Good luck to ya and keep us posted as to how it works out.

GETSOMZ28 · 08-08-2005, 09:37 AM

I am the only one that thinks the different sized tires could cause other problems (2.5 inches difference in tire height)?!?

If it is a 4x4, you will have diff gearing from front to rear.

scr38 · 08-08-2005, 09:40 AM

Bad idea. You shouldn't have different diameter tires installed. The wheel rotation sensors will see that the wheels are turning at different rates. The systems such as ALBS will think that you are skidding or spinning the tires and try to correct for it. This could lead to some very undesired actions by the ALBS, VDC, etc.

PHOEBISIS · 08-08-2005, 10:02 AM

scr38-getsomez28,I do have ABS,but not VDC-hmmm,I really hadn't thought about that.I suspect the ABS just looks at one wheel at a time,so I couod probably get away with it.
tnbowhunter,hey I wish it would save any gas-wow-if it would ever payback,I would be happy.It won't.
I am glad I posted here.I actually don't like the nose down look,but I would put up with it if I thought it was worth 1/10 mpg.I understand 1/10th mpg would never payback(over 200,000 miles 15 mpg vs 14.9 mpg saves 90 gallons-$200-maybe).
The Centerline wheels are really something I have wanted for a while;they will make the Titan accelerate faster(no I won't be able to measure that either,but they will-enough for me),and they are "cool".I like light stuff-as long as it doesn't break of course!
markinho-speaking of breaking-do you remember a company called "HIGH E".They were a mid late 70's super light weight bike part producer.I still have a 95 gram front hub of theirs(the alloy spindle added about 10 grams).A lot of their stuff broke-but it was still waaay cool back then.
powderp240-right about driving technique.I have gone from about 13.5 to 15 by heavily modifying my driving technique.I drive like a candy azz now-off the gas early-avoid brakes-dc CC when going up overpasses-coast down etc.
The Titan motor-trans are very efficient.I would love to see them in a sedan like Dodge does with the Hemi.It would beat the Hemi in acceleration and mpg.The Hemi does have cyl shutdown which will occasionally "kick in" on a lighter sedan-I doubt the cyl shutdown would do much for the Titan because of the 5000 lbs weight.
Well thanks all.I'll pass on the shorter tires;I do wish I could find some 235/80's or 225/85's but there is no such thing in a "street" car type tire-(except for some mudders-but they would be pointless).
I'll just use the Centerlines-airdam,and maybe the PRG 3/4" rear drop.Thanks.Charlie ps(glad I pass my lame ideas thru here-saves me some grief)

Titan XE · 08-08-2005, 10:57 AM

markinho, you mentioned your first modification was the Armada air dam that goes under the bumper. Can you tell me a little about it? Where did you get it? How much $? Is it easy to install and is it for LE SE XE? Thanks

markinho · 08-08-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

the Armada air dam that goes under the bumper. Can you tell me a little about it? Where did you get it? How much $? Is it easy to install and is it for LE SE XE? Thanks

You can check out the genesis of that air dam idea here

Mine hasn't arrived yet but should be here any day now.

Trucks aren't really designed to have a low drag coefficient, but every little bit helps. The bottom of any vehicle is an aerodynamic nightmare as one encounters lots of drag as the air brushes up against that bare undercarriage apparatus of tires, pipes, differentials, hoses, etc.

juma · 08-08-2005, 11:26 AM

charlie - look for a deeper spoiler that will give you more aero in the front and it probably will pay back and they only cost 25-50. the wider wheels may cause more drag just due to the cross section being wider - but they will look good. you could also reduce friction in the intake by taking out the tube to the fender well and replacing with a bigger diameter plastic piece from home depot- exhaust won't do much because the system handles the 1500-2000 rpm very well as is. those big mirrors are a real drag but its probably no feasible to change them. add 5 pounds to what ever tire pressure you are running. you can probably safely go as high as 50 pounds with no load. juma

PHOEBISIS · 08-08-2005, 11:30 AM

I like that airdam idea.Maybe someone can get some dry ice and a fan and see what the change in flow looks like??We are hoping to see the air go laterally and around the vehicle rather than undeneath?Or are we hoping that the air going underneath will be smoother??
We could probably even extend it downward with some very flexible rubber plastic,so when it touches something it won't break itself and shred the bumper cover.Thanks.Charlie

scr38 · 08-08-2005, 02:58 PM

Phoebisis, look at this from the Service Manual:

PHOEBISIS · 08-08-2005, 03:42 PM

scr-thanks for posting that.Do all Titans have EBD or just the ones with anti skid control.I think the cheapo XE's come with just ABS.
Juma-yeah,the new wheels will be 1/2" wider,but I'm sorta hoping that the little bulge of side wall that extends outside the wheel will just be less and I'll have the same tire width.I will try to get a good installed tire width with the OFFROAD and the Centerline wheels.I should be able to measure within 1/10" or so.I'll post once they are installed.
I'll probably get the airdam that is mentioned here since it is so cheap-maybe $35 delivered with hardware.We have so much crap on the roads here-mattresses,bicycle wheels,rocks,buckled pavement that I would be scared to go too low with something rigid.Besides,I curious to see just what it does.I'll get some dry ice and a fan and check it on the edges to see if the air is being directed laterally.Thanks.Charlie PS I have the "small" XE mirrors,but even those are not exactly small.No surprise that the BT folks get poor mpg-those big mirrors don't help.