Ford's massive sales and Titan sales improve

[buzzkillwill]

I read about Dodge's plans for the Ram, and they are estimating ONLY 1 additoinal MPG.

I know years ago Cadillac had something similar that they called 4,6,8, and it sucked!! I know technology has come along way, and things are much improved, but I would have concerns too.

Honda has this feature now. I believe, in the Oddysey.

[skytop]

Negative on the Dodge estimate. No manufacturer would even bother with the overhead and work just to yield 1 mpg. It would never get off the drawing board or the testing bench. It's too pathetic.

Yes, the Caddiac V4-6-8 did suck but it was an idea way before its time. Kind of like rap music and hip hop clothing. Now the average vehicle today has more computational power than your home computer. Special housekeeping duties for combustion and fuel delivery control for an on board engine computer is a piece of cake. Yes, Honda has it and it works well.

We'll see lots more of this shortly.

[Bassomatic]

Originally Posted by skytop

Negative on the Dodge estimate. No manufacturer would even bother with the overhead and work just to yield 1 mpg. It would never get off the drawing board or the testing bench. It's too pathetic.

Yes, the Caddiac V4-6-8 did suck but it was an idea way before its time. Kind of like rap music and hip hop clothing. Now the average vehicle today has more computational power than your home computer. Special housekeeping duties for combustion and fuel delivery control for an on board engine computer is a piece of cake. Yes, Honda has it and it works well.

We'll see lots more of this shortly.

I think you are going to be surprised at how little gains the DOD offers. 1 MPG sounds right. The Odyssey gets 2 MPG better on the highway rating and that is a 6 cylinder. 1 MPG sounds about right. The cost of the DOD is negligible according to Dodge--that is why it is standard on the '06 Hemis. 1 MPG is 1 MPG though.....still better than not having it....

[flyguy]

Hmmmm...

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=106865

[acro]

I was wondering the other day which other manufacturers Nissan was stealing users from - and it is pretty evident from the numbers that it's Toyota! What the heck?

[Bassomatic]

Originally Posted by flyguy

Hmmmm...

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=106865

Good article. One has to ask themselves....when a company is FORCED to pay a union line worker $65k / year and up, how does a company compete in a global market? And....have absolutley NO cost sharing responsibility for health care? IMHO I think the UAW will either have to revamp everything and anything for the big three, or face completely destroying the companies' that employ them.

[skytop]

Bassomatic:
Understand your point but 1mpg is still pathetic. 2 mpg might on the face of it sound twice as pathetic but if you do some math you can see that the number 2 starts to become significant. Here's why:

The average truck in the REAL world gets but 11-12 mpg. That's what my truck returned and most of my friends report the same. This site also reinforces this mpg return (forget about the guyz who live on mountains and coast down to work and then brag how they get better mileage).

Now back to the number two. Mathematically, 2 is a stunning 17.3 % of 11.5 (average of 11 & 12). Anytime a manufacturer can reliably deliver that kind of mpg improvement, they have a right to toot their horn. Anything better than '2' will be a real triumph of engineering.

I believe the next race will not be for horsepower but for bragging rights to who has the best system to increase fuel mileage.

Excuse me for now, I have to go to the grocery store to buy a low tech mpg improvement device my grandpa developed back in the 1940's. Works better than anything Detroit has ever developed! It involves purchasing a raw egg and attaching it to the gas pedal. You know the rest!

[buzzkillwill]

Skytop,

What's the REAL world...I live in the real world, and I get 16 mpg around town and almost 19 on the highway, and I have a real truck.

And there was a link on a thread awhile back that showed only 1mpg gain for the Dodge "DOD". SO I didn't make the number up, I quoted it from a source-a source which escapes me right now...

[skytop]

16 mpg around town?
You must be a very thrifty drivin' person!
As I clearly stated, based on the vast majority of reports on this site, the return is 11-12 mpg. I stand by that.

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by skytop

16 mpg around town?
You must be a very thrifty drivin' person!
As I clearly stated, based on the vast majority of reports on this site, the return is 11-12 mpg. I stand by that.

Where in the world are you getting this info? I consistantly get between 17 & 19 mpg. I just returned from a trip to Montana where my speed with the cruise set was 75mph and I got 17 mpg - that was with a box full of camping and fishing gear. On trips with the cruise set at 60 mph I conistantly get 19 mpg. If your only getting 11-12 than you have other other issues. The sale tag on the window says 14 & 18. If you can't at least get that than I would be dropping my truck off at the dealer for some inspection work.

[Bassomatic]

Originally Posted by skytop

The average truck in the REAL world gets but 11-12 mpg. That's what my truck returned and most of my friends report the same. This site also reinforces this mpg return (forget about the guyz who live on mountains and coast down to work and then brag how they get better mileage).

Now back to the number two. Mathematically, 2 is a stunning 17.3 % of 11.5 (average of 11 & 12). Anytime a manufacturer can reliably deliver that kind of mpg improvement, they have a right to toot their horn. Anything better than '2' will be a real triumph of engineering.

I agree, 2 MPG is good if one measures it on "real world driving". However, in order to keep the playing field level, and not subjectivley pick MPG numbers, I think the standard baseline ratings are the EPA ratings. Therefore, 20% increase on say the Titan would be 2.8 and 3.6 MPG improvement on a 14 / 18 rated Titan. In my opinion, not going to happen. IN a number of studies we conducted at my former job, it was difficult, at best, for Hybrids to achieve that kind of performance. Yeah, the EPA ratings show it, but "real world" and a lot of the modeling we did showed something completely different. Hence, why the Big three are not grasping Hybrids as much as the import car companies.

I worked fuel efficiency on the new Army Future Combat System, and we ran into similar issues with fuel efficiency for that system. Interesting work, but about the best fuel efficiency we achieved over a standard power train system was between 10% and 25%. Once we started varying terrain, long road travels (like 250 miles), mud, sand, and unimproved surfaces, the efficiency really started to decrease. Sometimes, the efficiency was 0% over the standard power train. Now, we were modeling Diesel Hybrids , and turbine hybrind engines running a variant of Jet A-1 and not gasoline engines, but efficiency results virtually mirror gasoline engines.

Bottom line: The internal combustion engine is still an amazing piece of machinery. I think it is great that companies continue to push the envelope in order to make them better / stronger / faster / more efficent.....especially when gas is fricken' $2.50 / gallon.

BTW--I don't own a Titan yet, and I have to say that if gas prices stay where they are, I probably will not buy one in the near future.

[skytop]

Guyz: Don't think interminably locally, think globally or at least nationally. I am talking about the industry.
There is a world of trucks out besides our lovely Titan there that I am referring to. Please don't get so darn bent out'a shape if someone posts something that does not conform exactly to your experience. Myopia is not helpful at all. This is the WORLD WIDE WEB we are on. You are going to see and hear things outside of your backyard.

Again, my posts refer to the big three truck industry manufacturers here in the United States. Please, there is no intent to upset anyone here on the Titan board. I am engaging in a discussion concerning imminent fuel mileage improvement systems that are relevant to ALL of us. Hope this clears the air.

[05dr]

Negative on the Dodge estimate. No manufacturer would even bother with the overhead and work just to yield 1 mpg. It would never get off the drawing board or the testing bench. It's too pathetic.

isn't that exactly what gm's hybrid truck did in the real world?

not to drag this thread any more off topic, but 11-12 is a pretty darn low number....

my titan (with big tow/off-road) started out averaging 12mpg, now easily 13-14 in city driving, 16.2-18.2 on freeway. for me the cure was pretty simple, STAY OFF THE GAS + mobile 1. i was a horrible lead foot, and am still pretty bad, but with each tank my mpg continues to improve. i try to stay at less then 1600-1800 rpm's whenever possible, 2000 for getting on the freeway. not very fun but it helped a lot.... i can't help but think driving style is a huge part of all those averaging less than 12mpg... seeing as mine went from 12-14 as how i drove changed.

the poll in sticky certainly doesn't indicate everyone is getting 11-12mpg....

13-14 mpg is what my friends/family get with silverado's and f150's, heard the same for tundras. my titan and my father in laws old silverado both got 12 mpg TOWING (~3800lb uhaul) for crying out loud. don't know anyone with a hemi so i can't say....

regardless, if displacement on demand has NO downsides and adds atleast 1 mpg, sign me up!

[skytop]

If then some people are in fact obtaining elevated mpg ratings in the 16 mpg range then a 17% increase would yield 18.7 mpg. That would be exceptional. If they could deliver 20%, that would be 19 mpg.

Won't be long before we see the Dodge system and then the Chevy/GMC system will debut in the beginning of the new year. Should be interesting.

The magazines will be giving these systems maximum coverage so we'll all have the scoop from whatever we read. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that somehow the engineer 'geeks' God love'm, will come to our aid and deliver the goods!