I know maybe beaten beyond DEATH... but any update on Turbo?

[dkhl]

I've been reading as much as I can, and I am definitely at a crossroad right now. I've been looking into getting a performance sport truck, and I don't really like what Chevy has to offer with the SSR, right now.. Fords SVT Lightning isn't around anymore which leaves Dodge's SRT-10 Ram.. which is pretty kick butt.

But I did a bit of searching on this forum and I saw a thread about Twin-Turbo regarding Banks. If this is TRUE, let me be the first (well not the first) to say what a BAD *** truck that would be..

Anyways :P I'm sorta basing my decision to buy a Titan whether or not a Turbo kit coming out .. anybody here any news onthis?

[jpdude999]

What do you want, a sports car, or a truck?

[dkhl]

Umm..

I want a truck with twin-turbo.. that can do 13's flat in mild stock form. That's what I want, that doesn't answer my question.

[jpdude999]

So far I haven't seen anything firm, just rumor. I don't know what to tell you. Nissan trucks, while having a history of having great powerplants, have been grossly under-represented by the aftermarket manufacturers. That being said, for just starting it's third model year, there is already an impressive amount of stuff out for the VK56DE. You might get lucky. I guess it all depends on how soon you want to get your truck. You could always go to an independent speed shop.

[docopharm]

Originally Posted by jpdude999

What do you want, a sports car, or a truck?

What he probably wants is an answer from someone who isn't being a smart-a$$.

I would say you're best bet right now is the supercharger. Not sure if you've seen that thread, but it looks like about 140hp gain or so. I wouldn't bet much on the turbo. Even if it does happen, it will be a good while before it's available (I would guess at least 6months to a year).

[kartman]

Question: What makes a turbo or TT more appealing to you vs a supercharger? They seem to have almost identical gains in HP.

As I recall both trucks are about $50K-55K. To me that is a ridiculous price for a truck. For that money you can get an M3, S4, trick mustang, vette maybe and a lot of other fast performance cars. Bad value for the dollar.

I drove the SSR on an auto-x course and I was able to push it as hard as I wanted. Lots of power, light rear end and easily able to melt tires. It was a lot of fun but overpriced and ugly. I would call it the ultimate Rental Car but I would never buy one.

[the head]

There is no turbo kit in development. That was the Banks speculation and they are not doing a kit for the titan. Buy a used syclone if you are wanting a turbo truck, it will not disappoint.

[92TripleBlack]

Originally Posted by kartman

Question: What makes a turbo or TT more appealing to you vs a supercharger?

Answer: Not much except hype. People cite the efficiency, but this isn't a complete view.

Turbo vs. Supercharger
4/3/2002 11:31:00 PM

It's one of the most common questions we are asked - the answer to which is almost impossible to find
"What is better - a supercharger or a turbo?"

We only wish the answer were that simple, but unfortunately it is not. The simple answer is:
"It depends."
But don't worry, we'll go into more depth than that here. Both superchargers and turbos have distinct advantages and disadvantages. Selecting the right kind of forced induction for your vehicle will depend upon your particular vehicle, your driving habits, your power preferences, and your needs.

Clearing Up Confusion



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According to Merriam-Webster's dictionary, a supercharger is defined as:
"a device (as a blower or compressor) for pressurizing the cabin of an airplane or for increasing the volume air charge of an internal combustion engine over that which would normally be drawn in through the pumping action of the pistons".
A turbocharger is defined as:
"a centrifugal blower driven by exhaust gas turbines and used to supercharge an engine".


According to Webster's, a turbocharger is included in the definition for superchargers - it is in fact a very specific type of supercharger - one that is driven by exhaust gasses. Other superchargers that do not fall into this category - the kind that we are all used to hearing about - are normally driven directly from the engine's crankshaft via a crank pulley. So in reality, it is not fair to compare all superchargers to turbochargers, because all turbochargers are also superchargers. For the purpose of this discussion, however, a supercharger will be considered all superchargers that are are not driven directly by the engine, while turbochargers will be considered all superchargers that are driven by engine exhaust gasses.

Similarities



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Both superchargers and turbochargers are forced induction systems and thus have the same objective - to compress air and force more air molecules into the engine's combustion chambers than would normally be allowed at atmospheric pressure here on Earth (14.7 psi at sea level). The benefit of forcing more air molecules into the combustion chambers is that it allows your engine to burn more fuel per power stroke. With an internal combustion engine, burning more fuel means that you convert more fuel into energy and power. For this reason, supercharged and turbocharged engines normally produce 40% to 100%+ more power (depending on the amount of boost - check out our horespower calculator) than normally aspirated engines.

How They Work


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A supercharger is mounted to the engine and is driven by a pulley that is inline with the crank (or accessory) belt. Air is drawn into the supercharger and compressed by either an impeller (centrifugal-style supercharger), twin rotating screws (screw-type supercharger), or counter-rotating rotors (roots-type supercharger). The air is then discharged into the engine's intake. Faster crank speed (more engine rpm) spins the supercharger faster and allows the supercharger to produce more boost (normally 6 to 9 psi for a street vehicle). Typical peak operating speeds for a supercharger are around 15,000 rpm (screw-type and roots style superchargers) and 40,000 rpm (centrifugal-style superchargers).

A turbocharger operates in much the same way as a centrifugal (internal impeller) supercharger, except it is not driven by pulleys and belts attached to the engine's crank. A turbo is instead driven by exhaust gasses that have been expelled by the engine and are travelling through the exhaust manifold. The exhaust gas flows through one half of the turbocharger's turbine, which drives the impeller that compresses the air. Typical operating speeds of a turbocharger are between 75,000 and 150,000 rpm.

Head to Head Comparison


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Now it's time to evaluate the turbocharger versus the supercharger according to several important factors.

Cost
The cost of supercharger and a turbocharger systems for the same engine are approximately the same, so cost is generally not a factor.

Lag
This is perhaps the biggest advantage that the supercharger enjoys over the tubo. Because a turbocharger is driven by exhaust gasses, the turbocharger's turbine must first spool up before it even begins to turn the compressor's impeller. This results in lag time which is the time needed for the turbine to reach its full throttle from an intermediate rotational speed state. During this lag time, the turbocharger is creating little to no boost, which means little to no power gains during this time. Smaller turbos spool up quicker, which eliminates some of this lag. Turbochargers thus utilize a wastegate, which allows the use of a smaller turbocharger to reduce lag while preventing it from spinning too quickly at high engine speeds. The wastegate is a valve that allows the exhaust to bypass the turbine blades. The wastegate senses boost pressure, and if it gets too high, it could be an indicator that the turbine is spinning too quickly, so the wastegate bypasses some of the exhaust around the turbine blades, allowing the blades to slow down..
A Supercharger, on the other hand, is connected directly to the crank, so there is no "lag". Superchargers are able to produce boost at a very low rpm, especially screw-type and roots type blowers.

Efficiency
This is the turbo's biggest advantage. The turbocharger is generally more economical to operate as it as it is driven primarily by potential energy in the exhaust gasses that would otherwise be lost out the exhaust, whereas a supercharger draws power from the crank, which can be used to turn the wheels. The turbocharger's impeller is also powered only under boost conditions, so there is less parasitic drag while the impeller is not spinning. The turbocharger, however, is not free of inefficiency as it does create additional exhaust backpressure and exhaust flow interruption.

Heat
Because the turbocharger is mounted to the exhaust manifold (which is very hot), turbocharger boost is subject to additional heating via the turbo's hot casing. Because hot air expands (the opposite goal of a turbo or supercharger), an intercooler becomes necessary on almost all turbocharged applications to cool the air charge before it is released into the engine. This increases the complexity of the installation. A centrifugal supercharger on the other hand creates a cooler air discharge, so an intercooler is often not necessary at boost levels below 10psi. That said, some superchargers (especially roots-type superchargers) create hotter discharge temperatures, which also make an intecooler necessary even on fairly low-boost applications.

Surge
Because a turbocharger first spools up before the boost is delivered to the engine, there is a surge of power that is delivered immediately when the wastegate opens (around 3000 rpm). This surge can be damaging to the engine and drivetrain, and can make the vehicle difficult to drive or lose traction.

Back Pressure
Because the supercharger eliminates the need to deal with the exhaust gas interruption created by inserting a turbocharger turbine into the exhaust flow, the supercharger creates no additional exhaust backpressure. The amount of power that is lost by a turbo's turbine reduces it's overall efficiency.

Noise
The turbocharger is generally quiter than the supercharger. Because the turbo's turbine is in the exhaust, the turbo can substantially reduce exhaust noise, making the engine run quieter. Some centrifugal superchargers are known to be noisy and whistley which, annoys some drivers (we, however, love it!)

Reliability
In general, superchargers enjoy a substantial reliability advantage over the turbocharger. When a a turbo is shut off (i.e. when the engine is turned off), residual oil inside the turbo's bearings can be baked by stored engine heat. This, combined with the turbo's extremely high rpms (up to 150,000rpm) can cause problems with the turbo's internal bearings and can shorten the life of the turbocharger. In addition, many turbos require aftermarket exhaust manifolds, which are often far less reliable than stock manifolds.

Ease of Installation
Superchargers are substantially easier to install than a turbos because they have far fewer components and simpler devices. Turbos are complex and require manifold and exhaust modifications, intercoolers, extra oil lines, etc. - most of which is not needed with most superchargers. A novice home mechanic can easily install most supercharger systems, while a turbo installation should be left to a turbo expert.

Maximum Power Output
Turbos are known for their unique ability to spin to incredibly high rpms and make outrages peak boost figures (25psi+). While operating a turbocharger at very high levels of boost requires major modifications to the rest of the engine, the turbo is capable of producing more peak power than superchargers.

Tunability
Turbochargers, because they are so complex and rely on exhaust pressure, are notoriously difficult to tune. Superchargers, on the other hand, require few fuel and ignition upgrades and normally require little or no engine tuning.

Conclusion


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While the supercharger is generally considered to be a better method of forced induction for most street and race vehicles, the turbo will always have its place in a more specialized market. Superchargers generally provide a much broader powerband that most drivers are looking for with no "turbo lag". In addition, they are much easier to install and tune, making them more practical for a home or novice mechanic.

We hope you have found this discussion informative and unbiased. Sometimes when we explain this to our customers, they say that we are biased towards superchargers because that is all we carry. We remind those customers that a turbo is a kind of supercharger and that we truly hope to carry turbochargers someday. The reason we do not currently sell any turbochargers is because we have not yet found a turbo system that is suitable for mail-order / e-commerce sale. We are not prepared to sell a turbo system that is difficult to install and requires the attention of a professional engine tuner or mechanic. If any turbocharger manufacturer makes such a system, please send us the details as we would love to carry such a product.

[dkhl]

I know how turbo's work, If I wanted something supercharged, I would have bought a SVT Lightning, which are nice, but like I said.. I like Turbo for several reasons. It's more efficient, I can adjust boost levels to whatever I like, so I don't have to be running X amount of PSI all the time, not to mention.. I've always liked the Turbocharged blow off sound, although a supercharger whine is pretty nice too.

I don't want to sound liek an idiot, but I will probably come off sounding this way, but Nissans been making a lot of progress within the last few years, I love Nissan :P I currently drive a '05 Sentra SE-R Spec V as my little daily driver.. which is fun as heck.. but obviously I want to move on to something big..

I got roughly 6 months to 1 year to decide :P Not to mention the new Skylines coming out in 28 days hehe.. not that I can afford it but yeah.. damn.. Nissans getting pretty cool.

[Vegas04]

this is, actually, what you need. I would consider trading my Titan and my Labrador Retriever for this: enjoy

http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/...lit/index.html

[jpdude999]

Originally Posted by docopharm

What he probably wants is an answer from someone who isn't being a smart-a$$.

Gee, doc, take a chill pill. I was just askin' a question. I'm one of those old fashioned backward thinkers who feel that trucks are for thrashing about in the boonies and hauling stuff (Usually someone elses!) around. I'd no more set up a truck for the drag strip than I'd take a Corvette, jack it up, fit it with four wheel drive and take it out in the mud. And I've seen it done! Don't get me wrong, I respect anyone's right to do what ever they want to their vehicles, but if you open a thread saying you know you'll get slammed, I'll throw a small shot.

[Cominatcha]

Not that ive ever done it but from what i understand, it shouldnt be extremely hard to fab up the pipes/headers and throw turbos in yourself adapt an intercooler and oil system and youll be good to go. Hardest part would be the headers and pipes

[docopharm]

Originally Posted by jpdude999

Gee, doc, take a chill pill. I was just askin' a question. I'm one of those old fashioned backward thinkers who feel that trucks are for thrashing about in the boonies and hauling stuff (Usually someone elses!) around. I'd no more set up a truck for the drag strip than I'd take a Corvette, jack it up, fit it with four wheel drive and take it out in the mud. And I've seen it done! Don't get me wrong, I respect anyone's right to do what ever they want to their vehicles, but if you open a thread saying you know you'll get slammed, I'll throw a small shot.

That's cool, just sounded a little harsh when I read it.