Nissan's Mississippi plant struggling.

[sonnytimes]

In Sundays "The State" paper here in SC, there is a big wright up about Nissan's Mississippi plant. The articale states "Consumer reports annual list of the most unreliable vehicles on the road includes four models produced at Nissans new Mississippi plant." Their survey included 1 million consumers. The vehicles included the Armada, Quest, Infiniti QX56 and the Titan pickup. A Nissan rep said "the the study does not reflect the inprovements made since the 4,200 employee plant opened." It said the Titan won "most satisfying" overall vehicle in september in the AutoPacific Vehicle Satisfaction Awards. The article goes on to talk about the Titans and Armada's faulty fuel system to defective windows, rattles, leaks, paint problems. They also mentioned the brake problems on the Titan ans Armada.The vehicles produced in this plant had half the number of problems this year as the previous year. Some of the problems seem to the new plant startup problems as well as new worker problems but some are design problems. They also talked about Nissan moving is headquaters from Los Angeles to surban Nashville.

Alot of talk. Some good and some bad.

[GO_VOLS!]

I think the data the media is concentrating on is the oldest data from when the plant first started. As you said, the data doesn't reflect any of the improvements made during most of '05 to present.

I've never heard of faulty fuel systems, I wonder what vehicle that's on. Also, I've owned 3 GMC Safari minivans that the rotors warped on ALL THE TIME. GM NEVER replaced them or countermeasured them throughout the 20+ yr life cycle of that vehicle model. Despite, they were still good vans.

[92TripleBlack]

Boy, that CR crap is really getting some legs. Too bad the data is junk, basing the reliability of the Titan, Armada, and QX on '04 repair records, and as the spokesman said, withouth consideration for the fixes and improvements Nissan has introduced into the models since. Why doesn't anyone ever expose these guys. They have been writing crappy reviews of cars using this junk journalism for 20 years. I can't believe anyone even reads them anymore.

[PHOEBISIS]

I don't get it.What is wrong with basing reliability on repair records??I'm sure that CR clearly states what they are basing it on-they always do.They just count and report.Did they count wrong?
What else can you base reliability on;Nissan's promise to do better?
Thanks.Charlie

[HudsonValleyTitan]

Old news. Lets see a test on more recent models. News about the 04s is played already.

[SKEET]

I Dont Understand Why These Different Groups Give Reliability Rateings For The Titan As Very Poor But Everybody Says Its Not True But The One Company That Does Give The Titan High Marks Was Hired By Nissan And Then Everybody Wants To Say See Their I Told You I Bought A Good Truck.come On.compare What You Will Get On Trade In For Your Truck Compared To 1 Of The Big Three And You Will See All The Crap Has Caught Up With Nissan And Myself Because Now Its Not Worth Anything

[92TripleBlack]

Originally Posted by PHOEBISIS

I don't get it.What is wrong with basing reliability on repair records??I'm sure that CR clearly states what they are basing it on-they always do.They just count and report.Did they count wrong?
What else can you base reliability on;Nissan's promise to do better?
Thanks.Charlie

It would be fine if
-they also take into account changes that fix the problems. If you have a bad widget, and get a good widget to replace it, don't say don't buy it because it has bad widgets. Remove the bad widgets from your stats and then judge. So if the bad widget was responsible for 90% of the problems, and the new widget fixed 90% of the problems, then they should give it a 10% problem rate as what you should expect.

-if they used the most up to date data available. This report was rushed out at the last minute just before the '05 stats came out, which reflect many of the fixes, and would have seriously upgraded their reliablility rating,

-if they qualified the seriousness of the failures and gave more serious problems a higher weighting. As it stands, a warped brake rotor is just as serious as blowing trannies. If we were talking about being bitten, they count a mosquito bite as strong as an alligator bite for example. Not fair.

-if they use the same standard for all vehicles. They don't. They said the Ridgeline was most reliable. But there reliability ratings are based on past vehicle performance. However, the Ridgeline hasn't even been out for a full year. What are they using as a basis for their claim? There isn't any, just personal bias and assumption.

CR doesn't do any of these. Junk rating system. The problems Titan etc. have had are minor, with the exception of the rears. They have also pretty much been addressed. This however, wasn't factored into the equasion.

[SKEET]

Originally Posted by 92TripleBlack

It would be fine if
-they also take into account changes that fix the problems. If you have a bad widget, and get a good widget to replace it, don't say don't buy it because it has bad widgets. Remove the bad widgets from your stats and then judge. So if the bad widget was responsible for 90% of the problems, and the new widget fixed 90% of the problems, then they should give it a 10% problem rate as what you should expect.

-if they used the most up to date data available. This report was rushed out at the last minute just before the '05 stats came out, which reflect many of the fixes, and would have seriously upgraded their reliablility rating,

-if they qualified the seriousness of the failures and gave more serious problems a higher weighting. As it stands, a warped brake rotor is just as serious as blowing trannies. If we were talking about being bitten, they count a mosquito bite as strong as an alligator bite for example. Not fair.

-if they use the same standard for all vehicles. They don't. They said the Ridgeline was most reliable. But there reliability ratings are based on past vehicle performance. However, the Ridgeline hasn't even been out for a full year. What are they using as a basis for their claim? There isn't any, just personal bias and assumption.

CR doesn't do any of these. Junk rating system. The problems Titan etc. have had are minor, with the exception of the rears. They have also pretty much been addressed. This however, wasn't factored into the equasion.

so how much longer before you see a reliability rateing that you will believe

[smoketitan]

I think this article is running everywhere, as it was front page business section in my local one (CA). My boss showed it to me yesterday. I think he was supsicious of all my days out, late reporting times with my ltitan lol--till he saw the article so thats good for me in one way

I have a 04, so obviousy the 05 and 06's are better, but I wll say that mine exhibits many of the reported issues in that article, and most of the reviews over the past few years

CR is not the bible as far as reliability but they do base there reports on consumer reporting data sheet that you get in the mail every year, so the data is annually changed and updated

so its not a fluke the 04-05's have very poor ratings look at jd power ratings--they also have the 04-05's rated rather poorly

In all cars its a small percentage that have failures and quirks, but its rather obvious in just a forum of over 8K members the number of vehicles with mutiple issues, mine included, and the fact that that plant has gone through two managers in only two years

[PHOEBISIS]

92triple-I can see you point on recommending a new vehicle(you mentioned the Ridgeline) that doesn't have a reliability record.However CR did exactly the same thing when they recommended the Titan after initial tests.I assume they did it on Nissan's past record of reliability(and on Honda's) Unfortunately,once the 2004 reliability numbers came in,the Titan was no longer recommended.CR isn't prejudiced against the Titan.
They will and do take into account improvements in reliability.They post numbers on a yearly basis.We are just a few days into 2006;the 2005 CR numbers aren't in yet.They send surveys to their members,and get the numbers from the surveys.
You can get their ratings and see which systems were below average in reliability.Make your own decision on what is important.
CR just counts.Thanks.Charlie

[Herbpov]

Man, just look at all the problems stated here on Titantalk. If I would have found this sight before I bought my Titan and read about all the problem people are having I would not have bought a Titan. By far this is the most problems I have ever had with a new truck. Goes in again tomorrow. Just seem like it never ends.

[92TripleBlack]

Originally Posted by SKEET

so how much longer before you see a reliability rateing that you will believe

I would believe one that took account changes the maker introduces. Right now you could do one. To use ficticious but easily understood numbers, if you see 75% of titans have had to be serviced, but 55% of those were related to a brake issue that has resolved the issue, then say the ones sold going forward, you should expect 20% to have issues, not 75%, which is extremely misleading and what CR does. And if you are rating a vehicle without a track record, i.e. a model year at least in production, don't hold this unproven commodity as the pinnacle of what the others should strive for. If/when it has problems, you look like a fool if you do.

[92TripleBlack]

Originally Posted by PHOEBISIS

92triple-I can see you point on recommending a new vehicle(you mentioned the Ridgeline) that doesn't have a reliability record.However CR did exactly the same thing when they recommended the Titan after initial tests.I assume they did it on Nissan's past record of reliability(and on Honda's) Unfortunately,once the 2004 reliability numbers came in,the Titan was no longer recommended.CR isn't prejudiced against the Titan.
They will and do take into account improvements in reliability.They post numbers on a yearly basis.We are just a few days into 2006;the 2005 CR numbers aren't in yet.They send surveys to their members,and get the numbers from the surveys.
You can get their ratings and see which systems were below average in reliability.Make your own decision on what is important.
CR just counts.Thanks.Charlie

Precisely. This is what CR will eventually do and goes to the heart of their lack of credibility.

1. They should never have recommended the Titan as reliable based on other Nissan vehicles. No first year vehicle should be. They are repeating this mistake again with Ridgeline, etc.
2. They are now doing the opposite by imposing the problems of the past on vehicles of the future, which are different. Again, its a head in the sand stance. If CR was really serious about being credible, they would look for repeating problems, then see what solution if any has been implemented, and take that into account when creating the rating. They also would never rate a vehicle reliable in its first year of production. Just counting is gathering data. But you are only gathering half the data for a future vehicle. The other half is what changes have been made. This is the difference between accounting and analysis and why CR is a joke.

[92TripleBlack]

Originally Posted by Herbpov

Man, just look at all the problems stated here on Titantalk. If I would have found this sight before I bought my Titan and read about all the problem people are having I would not have bought a Titan. By far this is the most problems I have ever had with a new truck. Goes in again tomorrow. Just seem like it never ends.

Is your vehicle a first year.

Never buy a first year vehicle from anyone. First rule of car buying. Let some other dupe figure out what's wrong, and then buy the fixed one the second or third year. One of the first things I learned about car buying when I was in grade school and asked my dad why he didn't buy that new hot car that had just come out.

[HudsonValleyTitan]

Originally Posted by SKEET

I Dont Understand Why These Different Groups Give Reliability Rateings For The Titan As Very Poor But Everybody Says Its Not True But The One Company That Does Give The Titan High Marks Was Hired By Nissan And Then Everybody Wants To Say See Their I Told You I Bought A Good Truck.come On.compare What You Will Get On Trade In For Your Truck Compared To 1 Of The Big Three And You Will See All The Crap Has Caught Up With Nissan And Myself Because Now Its Not Worth Anything

It looks like you've not compared trade-in values lately.