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Premium Gas?

45K views 300 replies 52 participants last post by  HudsonValleyTitan 
#1 ·
The Oct 2004 edition of Truck Trend states that Titans require premium fuel. Is this true? Maybe I should have checked, but I've been putting 87 octane in mine since I bought it in Nov 05! Mmmm.....:crybaby:
 
#52 ·
times are too close.. i doubt both tanks were exactly 3/4 full and that it was exactly 78 degrees both days. also are you sure you did not forget to take that elephant out of your bed? how about wind? I doubt that wind was in exact same direction both days. this just proves my theory that the Titan does not need premium :upsidedow

on a motorcycle (on a dyno) it is a lot easier to prove power cause you can take out the tank and empty it yourself, also it is in a controlled environment (heated room with no wind).
 
#53 ·
Well, i have two problems with that. one, its G-tech. Go to the track and then well talk.

two- Even if the Titan did see a gain in performance on premium, to pick up aprox. 1/2 second from that alone is rather a ridiculous claim.
 
#54 ·
EricCartmann said:
on a motorcycle (on a dyno) it is a lot easier to prove power cause you can take out the tank and empty it yourself, also it is in a controlled environment (heated room with no wind).
And you think the Dyno gives you true road times and horsepower? Get real, Im no genius but the G tech does factor those in. Beside the G tech is the only thing there is to show true times other than the trac. Given my G tech times and your Premium regular THEROY Ill take the G tech.
 
#55 ·
#56 ·
dyno shows you were the power is shows you where the dips are.. only thing would change is the peak and the overall curve would be higher on cool days.. nothing beats a dynojet dynometer... it will not give top speed but it will give you accurate HP. Speed is also dependent on aero dynamics.. the dyno does not factor that.. pure and simple it measures the engine performance.. lets see $300 device vs. a $5000 device ... hmmmmmmmmm
 
#57 ·
mach1 said:
Not always the case. Some brands filter thier premium more than the regular, and some even go as far as to make it much cleaner in the refining process. Amoco used to do this, now they sell thier gas at BP
the majority of refineries may or may not go through additional refining processes but according to the FTC:

As a rule, high octane gasoline does not outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your car's engine. In fact, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires that all octane grades of all brands of gasoline contain engine cleaning detergent additives to protect against the build-up of harmful levels of engine deposits during the expected life of your car.

this is an older article from USA Today about premium gas. this guy seems to know his stuff but chooses regular over premium.

"I personally use regular even though my owner's manual says you'll get better performance with premium," says Lewis Gibbs, consulting engineer and 45-year veteran at Chevron oil company. He's chairman of Technical Committee 7 on Fuels, part of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Fuels & Lubricants Council
 
#58 ·
EricCartmann said:
dyno shows you were the power is shows you where the dips are.. only thing would change is the peak and the overall curve would be higher on cool days.. nothing beats a dynojet dynometer... it will not give top speed but it will give you accurate HP. Speed is also dependent on aero dynamics.. the dyno does not factor that.. pure and simple it measures the engine performance.. lets see $300 device vs. a $5000 device ... hmmmmmmmmm
Where did you read that I would take the G tech over the dyno??? I said the G tech will simply give you very close readings on REAL conditions thats it. I dont care what you say about the Dyno it does'nt. After you pull your vehicle, what ever it is, off the machine and drive it down the road dont expect those #'s to go to your tires. You have to factor in alot more conditions. Not saying the Dyno is'nt a superior machine at all. But what else is out there besides the trac that will give you close to true readings? Go on......Educate me !
 
#59 · (Edited)
Listen....I am not trying to prove that any is better than the other. IMO I think that premium does give more power that is only my opinion based on what my G tech reading were. I didnt hype anything I just posted what it was reading.
 
#60 ·
Helinut1970 said:
Where did you read that I would take the G tech over the dyno??? I said the G tech will simply give you very close readings on REAL conditions thats it. I dont care what you say about the Dyno it does'nt. After you pull your vehicle, what ever it is, off the machine and drive it down the road dont expect those #'s to go to your tires. You have to factor in alot more conditions. Not saying the Dyno is'nt a superior machine at all. But what else is out there besides the trac that will give you close to true readings? Go on......Educate me !
lets stick to the original topic.. you claim that premium is better performance.. i say your numbers does not prove anything. 1/2 second off does not mean anything, a lot gets factored into 1/4 mile times which I already mentioned (such as wind, grade, temp, surface temp, surface condition, etc) .. also your reaction might have been even slower the day you ran 87 because you did not have your wheaties....who knows? :dunno:

all I am trying to say is 87 octane is all u need for the Titan, put her on the dyno to prove me and show it to me in writing :readclose to prove me otherwise.

i know u can do anything to your 5600 cc Titan and I will still whoop your *** around a track on my wimpy 600cc R6 :haveredfl

Jessica in the pits maxin and relaxin




me and Jessica... practice practice practice




me and kate




kate at home showing off trophies.


ok that last part about how i would whoop yo azz around dee track was unecessary but I had to add it anyways

:haveredfl
 
#61 ·
"The posted AKIs are lower in the Rocky Mountain states. These altitude gasolines historically provided the same antiknock performance as higher-AKI gasolines at sea level. The octane requirement of older-model engines decreases as air pressure (barometric pressure) decreases. Barometric pressure is lower at higher elevations.
Since 1984, vehicles have been equipped with more sophisticated control systems, including sensors to measure, and engine management computers to adjust for changes in air temperature and barometric pressure (see Chapter 5, Gasoline Engines). These vehicles are designed to have the same AKI requirement at all elevations and the owner’s manuals specify the same AKI gasoline at all elevations."

http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/motorgas/1_driving-performance/pg3.asp
 
#62 ·
EricCartmann said:
i know u can do anything to your 5600 cc Titan and I will still whoop your *** around a track on my wimpy 600cc R6 :haveredfl

Jessica in the pits maxin and relaxin


ok that last part about how i would whoop yo azz around dee track was unecessary but I had to add it anyways

:haveredfl
You've got to be kidding. I could beat that bicycle with my kids electric jeep!!!!!!:jester: :cheers:
 
#63 ·
f00dstamps said:
the majority of refineries may or may not go through additional refining processes but according to the FTC:

As a rule, high octane gasoline does not outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your car's engine. In fact, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires that all octane grades of all brands of gasoline contain engine cleaning detergent additives to protect against the build-up of harmful levels of engine deposits during the expected life of your car.

this is an older article from USA Today about premium gas. this guy seems to know his stuff but chooses regular over premium.

"I personally use regular even though my owner's manual says you'll get better performance with premium," says Lewis Gibbs, consulting engineer and 45-year veteran at Chevron oil company. He's chairman of Technical Committee 7 on Fuels, part of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Fuels & Lubricants Council

this is a great article and even though that chemical engineer (who probably knows more about car gasoling properties more than any of us combined) states all you need is 87, it will not matter because there are people here ingrained to think that they need premium... (cough cough helinut and pi3yeargrad). Thats why marketers love these guys.. all the marketers have to do is put "premium" on the box and these guys will believe it.
 
#64 ·
Helinut1970 said:
You've got to be kidding. I could beat that bicycle with my kids electric jeep!!!!!!:jester: :cheers:
:jester: :jester: :jester: :jester:
 
#65 ·
EricCartmann said:
this is a great article and even though that chemical engineer (who probably knows more about car gasoling properties more than any of us combined) states all you need is 87, it will not matter because there are people here ingrained to think that they need premium... (cough cough helinut and pi3yeargrad). Thats why marketers love these guys.. all the marketers have to do is put "premium" on the box and these guys will believe it.
One thing is for sure. If I use 87 oct. I get a spark knock when I hammer it and all the time when I am towing stuff. When I put premium in no more spark knock. That is proof enough for me. Besides my All mighty, all knowing, Far superior, G for God tech told me so!:jester:
 
#66 ·
Helinut1970 said:
One thing is for sure. If I use 87 oct. I get a spark knock when I hammer it and all the time when I am towing stuff. When I put premium in no more spark knock. That is proof enough for me. Besides my All mighty, all knowing, Far superior, G for God tech told me so!:jester:
what color is your Titan? I got a black one and for the black ones 87 octane has worked for me flawlessly with no knocks or pings. I am sorry to hear you got an inferior one.
 
#67 ·
EricCartmann said:
you must be like 67 yrs old. sound like my gradnpa, "this is how i do it"... forget that people are trying to help educate you. Titan runs better on 87, and that 87 is cheaper. Than again marketers love people like you... all they have to do is put a "premium" label on things.
I refuse to once again get into this stupid back and forth education of facts so...I'll say this only once and then....do a search here....all the info has beaten to death and all the facts gone over. You're not educating anyone because you are dead wrong. No, the Titan does not run better on 87, it runs better, smoother, and has 10 more HP on 91 octane fuel. The Endurance engine IS in fact a high compression (9.8) motor. But it's the fact that the ECU advances/retards timing with octane that causes more or less power. On that note, I'll let you do the research either here or elsewhere because quite frankly, it's like teaching a middleschool class.....once you get one class to understand, their done and another new class comes in.:huh:
 
#68 ·
HudsonValleyTitan said:
I refuse to once again get into this stupid back and forth education of facts so...I'll say this only once and then....do a search here....all the info has beaten to death and all the facts gone over. You're not educating anyone because you are dead wrong. No, the Titan does not run better on 87, it runs better, smoother, and has 10 more HP on 91 octane fuel. The Endurance engine IS in fact a high compression (9.8) motor. But it's the fact that the ECU advances/retards timing with octane that causes more or less power. On that note, I'll let you do the research either here or elsewhere because quite frankly, it's like teaching a middleschool class.....once you get one class to understand, their done and another new class comes in.:huh:
all i can say is hehehehe i told ya so hehehe:upsidedow :upsidedow
 
#69 ·
HudsonValleyTitan said:
I refuse to once again get into this stupid back and forth education of facts so...I'll say this only once and then....do a search here....all the info has beaten to death and all the facts gone over. You're not educating anyone because you are dead wrong. No, the Titan does not run better on 87, it runs better, smoother, and has 10 more HP on 91 octane fuel. The Endurance engine IS in fact a high compression (9.8) motor. But it's the fact that the ECU advances/retards timing with octane that causes more or less power. On that note, I'll let you do the research either here or elsewhere because quite frankly, it's like teaching a middleschool class.....once you get one class to understand, their done and another new class comes in.:huh:

Again let me see some dyno charts! So because you say so I am suppose to believe you?
 
#70 ·
HudsonValleyTitan said:
The Endurance engine IS in fact a high compression (9.8) motor.
huh? 9.8 is high compression? The Corolla has higher compression and only requires 87 octane. So more than compression comes into play when it comes to fuel octane requirement. FYI: Here are some compression numbers for you:

titan 9.8:1

accord 9.7:1

corrolla 10:1

corvette 11:1

porche 911 11.8:1
 
#71 ·
how do you like me now? :upsidedow

FYI: I don't know anything about anything I just present the information presented to me. :haveredfl
 
#72 ·
EricCartmann said:
huh? 9.8 is high compression? The Corolla has higher compression and only requires 87 octane. So more than compression comes into play when it comes to fuel octane requirement. FYI: Here are some compression numbers for you:

titan 9.8:1

accord 9.7:1

corrolla 10:1

corvette 11:1

porche 911 11.8:1
uh.........the QX56 has the same CR of the titan and it requires premium soooooooo its a moot point really.......its all about timing
 
#73 · (Edited)
You got it Titano, timing also comes into consideration.

And again we can argue this all we want but if you say there is a 10hp increase show me. Is it 10 HP in 5th gear at redline? or is it 10hp all accross the spectrum? Show me the money! (in this case the dyno charts!). Again I am not doubting you I just want to see solid proof as I do not believe it because I get worse gas mileage with higher octane.

I think Hudson Valley needs a little education:

"Many vehicle owners believe that higher octane fuels are better for their vehicles since they are labeled "PREMIUM." The logic is that since it is a premium fuel it must be better. In reality, the premium label originates from the higher cost to refine and the resultant higher retail cost. Some refiners label their high octane fuels "SUPER." Some owners think that these fuels will make their vehicles more powerful. Only engines with high compression ratios can deliver all the potential energy from higher octane fuels! Always consult the manufacturer's octane recommendation to determine the proper octane requirements for any given vehicle. Generally, engines with compression ratios of 9.3 : 1 or less will safely operate with unleaded 87 octane fuel. Engines with higher compression ratios usually require higher octane fuels."

A Coralla is 10:1 so the 9:3:1 above is just a rule of thumb.

Now here is the entire link, I like it because it is in simple layman terms.
http://www.leeric.lsu.edu/bgbb/7/ecep/trans/b/b.htm
 
#74 ·
Helinut1970 said:
Listen....I am not trying to prove that any is better than the other. IMO I think that premium does give more power that is only my opinion based on what my G tech reading were. I didnt hype anything I just posted what it was reading.

dont worry bout it...were right and theyre wrong...lol...life goes on guys...too bad :upsidedow :jester:
 
#75 · (Edited)
One of the Mods has this in his Sig. And it has become one of my favorite lines. I just hope I dont screw it up so here it goes..............."Don't argue with Idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"

Hudson that 10 HP diff. explains the 1/2 sec diff. in my 1/4 mile times!
 
#76 ·
Helinut1970 said:
One of the Mods has this in his Sig. And it has become one of my favorite lines. I just hope I dont screw it up so here it goes..............."Don't argue with Idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"

EXACTLY! Thats why I want to see curves on dyno charts. Proof is in the pudding! :cheers:
 
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