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Old 12-01-2006, 05:44 PM   #1
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Nissan Titan Information - Best of Titantalk

Work in Progress...Feel free to reply to this thread...it will keep it near the top for people to see and add there 2 cents.

This will be my attempt at consolidating some of the best information on Titantalk. Please PM if you have any good tidbits for me to add and I will edit my posts.

Here is an example of information that I will be posting:

Performance Mods:



Two Degree Timing Advance Instructions (For Dealers w/ Consult II)

Warm up vehicle.
On CONSULT 2 screen choose ENGINE
After communication with Convertor will display a bunch of choices.
Press WORK SUPPORT
See more choices, press TARGET IGN TIMING
Press UP x2 for 2 degrees, correction which you should be able to see.
Press UPDATE.
Now press BACK
On the menu screen find IDLE AIR VOL LEARN.
Press, and perform to correct your idle since you just raised it 75rpm with timing advance.

Having these instructions in hand greatly increases the chance that your dealer will do it. Prices usually ranges from $0 - 1hr Labor.

And now...for you cool bastard with 08 titans which need the consult3 for the timing advance:

Yes, I was able to get it to programm, I did mine & 3 others.
Tricky cause our Consult 3 did not have 08 options so i accessed through a
2007 350 z
After consult3 has connected to car :
1. Press Wrench sign upper Right side of screen.
2. Press ECM/Wrench sign just below Large Wrench sign
3. Press Engine / OK
4. Work Support
5. Engine timing at bottom of list
6. Fallow prompts to +2
!!!!!! make sure they actual hit the UP-DATE BUTTON !!!!!!
or it will not save..
Make sure engine is at normal operating temp. & also good to reset
Idle air volume relearn to @ 650 rpm with a/c off & steering wheel straight..



Cold Air Intake (Big Props to SHAILEY @ CT for this information...he bought and tested all these intakes himself tell 'em thanks)

Intakes are: The Airaid, Volant w/Ram Air Scoop, AFE Stage 2, AEM Brute Force, TrueFlow and the stock intake and filter with the top cut off the collector that connects to the fender.

TBS: Helix Power Tower and Poweraid

My current mods are as follows: 18* Timing advance, 116% air/fuel ratio (very lean), NO throttle body spacer for the intake tests, JBA ceramic shorty headers, JBA Exhaust system (single exit with 2.5" Y-Pipe flared to 3" on the drivers side bend, 3" dual collector at the Y, 3.5" tailpipe), 2.5" dynomax racing muffler bullets to replace rear resonators, intake manifold O-ring screen removed and with stock 18" 5 spoke wheels with Michelin 265/70/18's.

This is what I will say so far about the tests. I will not give the hp and torque total, just what the gain is over stock airbox with my current mods. The reason for this is because I do not want the numbers to be misleading and making people think that they will reproduce these numbers strictly by adding a CAI. Also, your gains could be less due to what else I have done to the ecm to maximize my mods. These numbers are peak to peak, NOT picked out at a certain rpm. I will also say that ALL of the intakes produced better gains in the mid range over stock and were almost all similar numbers early on.

Stock box: produced the lowest numbers just as expected. The stock box was starving the engine of air for the mods that I have done. My times were the worst with it and the power suffered greatly.

Trueflow: Gains were very mild, but gains were present. So for those of you looking for the ultimate filtration without wanting top performance, this is your intake kit. Gains of 4 hp and 9 lbs of torque were the find.

Airaid: This is the system that I had installed in my truck for quite sometime. The top is open and it uses the stock intake tube, BUT the box does seal to the hood. This is evident by the worn spot on the insulation under my hood, so it DOES SEAL. This system did quite well with the testing. It also produces a sucking sound when feathering the throttle. I know that this system has even been called "A Joke" by some members, but that is not true. I think it could be better though if the intake tube were replaced. Gains were impressive though, 8 hp and 12 lbs of torque.

AEM Brute Force was the best so far. It had a more aggressive tone than the Airaid and produced a similar sound when feathering the throttle. You could tell that the tube was metal, it almost had a slight ringing to it. But it was not loud or annoying. For those worried about the tube being metal...DON'T. At 9 hp and 14 lbs of torque gain over stock, I don't think that the steel tube is warming any air like some have claimed. If it is warming air, I would hate to see what the gains would be with a plastic tube. LOL

The Volant that I installed I got from got_titan and it is the generation 2 and I bought the ram air system separately. By the way, I want to say thank you to John for helping me out and getting it to me quickly. He included a couple of extra parts for me and I greatly appreciate it. The install was very simple since I only had to put one bolt in the bottom of the box, the hardest part was stretching the new silicone connector over the intake tube. LOL Now then, the sound is very loud! It also had a pretty good vibration when accelerating a little faster than normal. Under WOT it had some serious volume and the truck responded quickly. Results: 10 hp and 14 lbs of torque.

The AFE was also a very easy install. There was an extra bolt to put in, but at least the windshield washer fluid reservoir did not have to be removed to get to it. The sound was not as loud as the volant, so I think that the volume may have a lot to do with the intake tube and a resonator box similar to the factory box. There was a slight vibration around 2900 rpms but not as bad as the Volant. Results 9 hp 13 lbs of torque.

The results are in and you cannot go wrong with the Airaid, AEM, AFE or Volant. AND I will remind everyone again, these gains may be more on my truck due to the other mods that have been done. If you just have an exhaust and have not had your computer remapped, it may not do as much for you. It may do more for you, I do not know.

So just as many of us have stated before, most CAI's are pretty similar as long as you stay with the name brands. It is just what style that you like the best and what you want your engine compartment to look like. The volant did have the highest hp, but the difference is not enough to "feel". I can say that I have produced the best times with the volant on but that could be due to outside variables that I have no control over.

Now then, who wants to buy a Helix throttle body spacer? Everything else has been spoken for and since the results of all of the CAI's were so close, I truly feel as if I have wasted a serious amount of money. LOL


Cat-Back Exhaust

Cat-Back exhausts offer an opportunity to toughen up your truck's sound and add a few ponies. **Warning** adding exhaust is known to increase HP @ the top end at the expense of lowend hp & ft/lbs. Also, many after market exhausts (Flowmaster 40 series, Banks) are extremely loud. Please choose carefully and search the board for reviews. Below are some common exhaust setups and the pros cons as well as basic sound info:

i cannot get the link to work so im gonna cut a paste, but in know way do i take credit for any of this. It is due to "shailey" of club titan, and many others



Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:10 am Post subject: My exhaust findings!

I have received quite a number of PM's lately asking about exhaust. I do not mind them, in fact I enjoy helping people out and answering their questions. If you have questions after this post, still feel free to ask them, I will answer.

I know that there are many peole on here who know more about exhausts than I do as far as the technical stuff. But, in the last two months I have done around 40 dynos with many different combinations of modifications and exhausts. The systems that I have had include the following now:

1) Full Stock set-up with 22" magnaflow muffler
2) Magnaflow Catback
3) Gibson swept side
4) Borla Dual
5) Flowmaster 40 series
6) Flowmaster 70 series
7) JBA single exit

I will provide what I observed during the whole process to try and help others determine what is best for their needs. When I mention drone, I am extremely sensitive to the frequency that exhaust emits. So your level of hearing may be different than mine.

1) The full stock set up with the 22" magnaflow provided great numbers. The hp and torque increase from stock was 8 and 14. Sound was a little louder than stock and there was noticeable drone to me at 58 to 62 mph. Bang for your buck can not be beat here. Once again I ONLY changed out the muffler.

2) Maganflow catback single exit provided the best gain period with the STOCK titan. The numbers on the website of 18 and 22 were factual peak to peak numbers. Not a play on numbers like many manufacturers do and show how much you gained at a certain rpm when you actually gained on 2 or 3 peak horsies. One odd thing that needs to be realized with this set up is it uses the STOCK Y-PIPE. I tried this set up with a custom 3 1/2" Y-pipe and lost a lot of torque. drone once again, is pretty noticeable at speeds mentioned above.

3) Gibson Swept Side is in my opinion a great all around exhaust for a couple of reasons. One it does provide medium gains in hp and torque. But two it has a great sound with almost no drone. It is louder than stock at WOT, but at start up it is just a deep tone that sounds great. But if you want something that is loud and mean, this is not for you.

4) Borla dual. It sounds really good to me. Cruising speeds had no drone, drone was only around 45 mph. the gains in hp were comparable to the gibson (12), but the toque gain was very minimal. But it is a very clean sounding exhaust that will please MANY and the finished look is very nice.

5) Flowmaster 40 series did not stay on for an entire day. Drone felt like my head was going to cave in. I greatly apologize for not being able to tolerate it to give a full evaluation, but the drone was heavy between 40 and 70 mph to me. And that is where I drive 90 percent of the time.

6) Flowmaster 70 series. Very good sound. Not to loud, drone was minimal around 1600 rpms. Provided nice hp gains that were equivalent to Gibosn and Borla, but once again the torque gain was very minimal. This exhaust at wot was definitely able to turn some heads with its volume and I did notice a couple of pops after going WOT and then letting completely off the gas. So it performs like the Gibson and Borla but has a little more agressive sound than both of them.

7) The JBA provided the best gains AFTER the header install. I do not have perforamnce numbers with the stock exhaust manifold, because I purchased this system AFTER headers. Previously the Magnaflow had the top gains hands down, but after the headers, this one etched out on top by 4 hp and 6 pounds of torque. I think that JBA did a good job matching their systems up. One thing that is interesting though is the muffler that came with it was a K & N muffler. The Y-pipe is smaller than ALL OTHER catback systems at 2.5"...EXCEPT where the bend in the tubing is and at the Y. The bend in the tubing on the drivers side expands to a little under 3" and then shrinks back down and it seems to act like a velocity channel. And the Y has two 2.5" pipes that come together to a 3" collector. There is some drone at 1600 rpms does not matter the speed, but it is definitely tolerable to me. This is a fairly loud agressive exhaust but is still not up with the Flowmasters or Bnaks.

So one conclusion that I was able to come to is that the 5.6 loves back pressure. That is where the low end torque comes from as does the max torque. It is funny that the 3 systems that produced the best numbers (hp and torque) used the smallest diameter Y-pipe and 2 of those were with the STOCK Y-PIPE and the other has the same diamter as the stock y-pipe. The dual systems lost speed in the lower range (below 40 mph) and I am convinced that is because of the minimal torque gains and I believe loss of back pressure. So if you want pure sound, the duals are the way to go. But if you want performance, the single exits with the smaller Y-pipe proved to be the best.

I will also be installing and dynoing the bassani system soon. I know that they are big into vette's, but I heard one on a friends Z06 and it had a great sound and provided pretty good gains on his vette.

Now please do not start writing in and bashing me because of my findings. All of this was done on the dyno and the on road findings were times with a Bel FX2 and my ears. Times can be affected by humidity, temperature and wind.:

Banks: Link Stainless, Loud, Huge Tip. Reduces Back pressure. Vid1
Flowmaster: Link Dual Outlets, "old school look" fairly loud.
Gibson: Link Various Configurations. One of the Quietest. See site for Details.
Stillen: Link Also has several variations, check the link.
Borla: Link Quiet Growl, Solid Stainless, Known for quality.
Zoomers: Link Special exhaust tip promises to be drone free.
MagnaFlow: Link

Programmers

If you are interested in a programmer, there are a couple of options:

Uprev ECU Flash: uprev.com *Warning you have to send them your ECU
Stillen Programmer: Stillen Chip *Warning not yet released as of 5/09/07


Resetting your ECU

Resets to factory settings. Also clears some error codes that pop after a CAI or Stereo install.

Give it a try, but be patient....it may take a couple (or more) tries with your stopwatch to get it right.....timing is extremely important here!
Timing is extremely critical. If it is NOT DONE within the specify time, the ECU will not reset and the Check Engine Light (CEL) will continue to remain ON. A stop watch or an analog clock with a second’s needle will be useful.

Operations Procedures

1. Confirm that accelerator pedal is fully released, turn ignition switch “ON” and wait 3 seconds.
2. Repeat the following steps (2a and 2b) procedures quickly five times within 5 seconds.
a. Fully depress the accelerator pedal (HARD).
b. Fully release the accelerator pedal.
3. Wait 7 seconds, fully depress the accelerator pedal and keep it for approx. 10 seconds until the CEL starts blinking.
4. Fully release the accelerator pedal (while the CEL is still blinking)
5. Wait about 10 second.
6. Fully depress the accelerator pedal and keep it for more than 10 seconds.
7. Fully release the accelerator pedal (The CEL light will continue to blink).
8. Turn ignition switch to “OFF” position and now you can start the car. The CEL light should be gone.
9. If the CEL light continues to remain ON, repeat the above steps. Timing is EXTREMELY critical to resetting the ECU.

Reset the AirBag light (For you audio installers)

1. Turn the key from off to on.

2. Watch the airbag light closely. It will stay on for a few secs. and then as soon as it blinks off (the start of the flashing), turn the key off instantly.

3. Count to 5 (1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi . . . .)

4. Repeat steps 1-3 two more times until you have done the cycle three times.

5. Now turn the key on and watch the light. It will start blinking in a different, slower manner. This is diagnostic mode. You can watch this for a little while, no hurry.

6. Now turn the key off again, Count to 5 like in step 3 again, and turn back on. If the procedure worked, the airbag light will not be flashing.

If it does not work the first time, just repeat the steps again.
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Click Here for some useless Titan information from some idiot.

Adam AKA GoogleWhore™
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Last edited by adavis99 : 01-29-2008 at 09:54 PM. Reason: Update Title.
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Old 12-01-2006, 05:45 PM   #2
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Re: Best of Titantalk

Suspension:

One of the most popular modifications owners make to their titan is lifting it. There are a variety of choices available to users ranging from serious baja capable to kits that don't add any travel just height. Also for those looking to lift and spend just a little, spacer lifts (aka leveling kit, 2" lift, mini-lift) are available.

Spacer Kits
See Attached Tire Guide...for those of you with 18" wheels.
See Attached Installation Guid for PRG Mini-lift: It's not that hard! (Thanks Carbeaux)
PRG: Link Greg's kit are the orignal, and most would agree the best. He offers 2.5" kits for 2wd & 2" kits for 4wd. If you try to achieve 2.5" lift with 4wd you will be hitting the coil bucket a lot on bumps, so he has two kits. Also, Greg is known for offering the best customer service around. I've yet to see a bad review of his work or products. Offers a trade in credit if you decide to buy a full lift from him after buying the mini lift.

NCD


Lift Kits

Summary:

The following is a summary on lifting a 4x4 titan posted in june'06 by PRG (PreRunnerGreg). I have edited it for formatting, spelling etc as it was a quick response from PRG not meant as an official guide. PRG has not reviewed/approved this and it has been edited. Please remember this is still a work in progress.

Shops:

When you are talking to a shop, ask what companies they buy direct from, the answer will most likely be who they are pushing the most due to higher margins. I have also seen every kit botched by different shops, and the shop blames the kit and the customer believes the issues are the kits fault, but really the shop is to blame.

Kits (4wd):


That being said, here is my latest opinion on the kits being made now. My opinion is that the Procomp and CST are the best bang for the buck. It you were blindfolded and put in 4 different trucks, each with a different lift, with new factory shocks they would all ride and handle the same. The CST and Fabtech will allow more overall height when using a different upper a-arm than the pc or rancho. And all but the Fabtech use just a block in the rear (Fabtech uses a 2" block and an aal). All these kits can be changed drastically with use of coilovers and/or upper a-arm and PROPER spacing (NOT just adding a leveling kit!!) and with different rear springs or blocks. Listed in Bang-for-the-buck order:

Procomp:
I was never a big fan of PC, but their titan STAGE 1 kit is very, very nice and you get a nice fitment and easy installation for a good price (includes billet rear blocks, brake lines, rear shocks, and a slightly better sway bar connecting system than the Fabtech or rancho kits). 5” in front 3” higher in rear. Should sit about level to slightly higher rear.

CST: The nicest titan kit on the market, you pay for it too. But when it’s all over you will spend about the same price to add the things that come in the CST kit to any other (Hiem jointed sway bar end links, aluminum skid plate, Bilstien rear shocks). The CST kit is by far the most labor intensive to install, so there may be more cost as there is cutting and welding to do (unless you get the TC upper a-arms as you will not need to weld). 6-6.5” up front, 4 inch lift in the rear. Rear sits 1 inch higher than front.

Rancho: This is a very nice kit, but requires you to get their struts just to use the basic kit, so it adds more cost. It is also a bit shorter and has a bit less potential to grow (height wise) compared to the others. Still, it is a very nice kit with nice hardware. 5" in front, 2" rear block, front will sit level or a tad taller than the rear (unless OR package, then about 1/2" taller in back).

Fabtech: I typically only use this kit on 2wd (we mod the sub-frames so there is a lot of clearance and it looks great like that). It the least expensive kit but it doesn’t have braided brake lines (all the others do) and it uses a very stiff add-a-leaf (I hate those). I sell all the kits but mostly CST and Procomp. Any of the kits can be made to work with a quality coilover and a good rear shock 6” lift up Front, 3.5” lift in the Rear.

Bulletproof: This is such custom kit that I will leave it out of this discussion. All this info is generalized too and just for the 4wd titans. 2wd is a different ball game.

Kits (2wd):

The attachments below have a listing of tires that fit, as well as instructions for a spacer lift
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Copy of Tires for Titan.pdf (23.2 KB, 623 views)
File Type: pdf Mini-Lift Install Instructions Carbeaux.pdf (400.8 KB, 330 views)
File Type: pdf General Tire Informatin.pdf (400.6 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by adavis99 : 07-18-2008 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 12-01-2006, 05:45 PM   #3
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Re: Best of Titantalk

Purchasing Tips (New Vehicle):

1. Do your Homework. Buying a vehicle is probably the 2nd biggest purchase you will make. Research and comparison shopping can save you thousands of dollars.

2. Know Dealer invoice price for the truck you are buying. You should be able to buy @ or slightly under dealer invoice Link. They still make 3% dealer holdback.

3. Buy based on vehicle price not monthly payment amount.

4. If financing, find out the best rate your local credit union will offer, Only use dealer financing if they beat the credit union.

5. Don't be concerned when a dealer says this deal is only good for today, it's BS.

6. Dealers (Salesman) have monthly quotas, end of the month can sometimes be bargain time.

7. Will you be reselling in a few years? If so, buying a last years closeout hurts resale value. Also, BigTow package can really help resale (warning: worse mpg with BigTow).

8. Just say no to dealer add-ons such as etching, paint protecting, rust proofing etc. These are profit drivers for the dealership. If you want it done, negotiate it with shops afterwards and I bet you they beat the dealer by about 50%. Watch out for paperwork fees. Transport fee is a real cost and is usually acceptable ($500).

9. Watch out for document fees. These can be excessive and are often tacked on after you sign...Tricky Salesman!

Last edited by adavis99 : 12-12-2006 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 12-01-2006, 05:46 PM   #4
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Re: Best of Titantalk

Frequently Asked Questions:

What is the difference between VDC and ABLS? What are they? How do I turn them off? What do they do?

VDC: Is designed to keep your truck moving forward as opposed to sideways. It's an "intelligent" system that does some complex things. If you have this, you have the option to turn it on off via a button in the center/bottom of your dash under the a/c knobs next to tow mode.

ABLS: This applies brakes to a slipping wheel. If you see the "slip" light flash, ABLS was engaged. This cannot be turned off.



It just got cold out...My truck is beeping at me and a (_) symbol warning light is on my dash. What is this?


This is your TPS or tire-pressure sensor. Odds are you need to air up for the winter.


I just installed an intake/stereo and Check Engine/Air Bag light came on...What the heck?

First, try doing the ECU reset above, if that doesn't work...figure out what the heck you did wrong with your install.

What's some random stuff I might not know

Hold unlock to roll down the windows.
Don't pull things in reverse.
Don't us 4x4 on dry pavement and don't do hard turns while stopped.
Tint scratches easily on the titan, clean your window cracks (especially the bottom) to minimize. 20% tint matches nice.
Stock speakers are 2ohm...and suck.
6.5" mounting depth is the VERY most you can ever hope to get for a sub under rear seats (more like 6").
Beware of backspace on your aftermarket wheels...the titans wheels are rather narrow and tucked in.
Changin the fluid in the rearend is easier than changing the engine oil.
The search button on titantalk works wonders...almost every question has been asked several times over.

Last edited by adavis99 : 05-01-2007 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 12-01-2006, 05:46 PM   #5
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Re: Best of Titantalk

Snatch

Thinking of Wheelin (aka Off-Roading, 4 byin etc etc) know what to do in case you get stuck. Remember Stuck Happens. (thanks to J. Harden)

Adavis99, here's a quick primer. You can find quite a lot of stuff out there on the internet that will help guide you. One thing I'd add would be that in most all situations, I would rather use my winch to get someone out versus snatching them with a strap. A snatch is a very fast method, but involves huge amounts of forces and stresses that hit all at once. Winching someone out involves a nice, steady increase of tension that gently and slowly frees the vehicle.

Do's:

Do use a high quality snatch strap or rope that is designed for this purpose.

Do tug and snatch in a straight line with the other vehicle.

Where possible, snatch or tug using a receiver shackle in a class III or IV tow hitch.

Make sure the strap is not all twisted prior to strapping. Lay it out flat.

If strapping at a slight angle, it sometimes helps to use two clevis shackles together in a line as this helps avoid twists in the strap.

When trying to free a stuck vehicle, start with a tug. Slowly put tension on the strap, then steadily increase tension. This may be enough to free the stuck vehicle. If the towing vehicle begins to experience wheel spin, stop and attempt a snatch.

To snatch, back up about 3-5 feet and drive straight forward at a crisp pace, similiar to how you would pull away from a stop light. You may need to repeat this multiple times, but it will more than likely, eventually free the vehicle. Avoid the temptation to back up further and take off faster.


Dont's

Don't use tow straps or straps with metal hooks on the end to snatch vehicles. These are not designed for snatching and will likely break, making the metal hook a missile.

Don't snatch or pull at a sharp angle as this will put undue stress on both vehicles.

When snatching, remember that tremendous forces are placed on both the strap and vehicles. Don't back up to where there is 10 feet or so of slack in the strap, then take off at dragster speed as this will very likely damage one or both vehicles.

Here's a great article that demonstrates that not all straps are made equal. It's interesting to note that even the ARB straps broke significantly below their stated breaking strength.

http://offroadrecovery.zoovy.com/cat...rystrapcomparo

Hope this helps

Regards,

John

Last edited by adavis99 : 02-13-2007 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 12-01-2006, 05:50 PM   #6
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Re: Best of Titantalk

Okay last one by me. These will be filled with tons of information.

I Plan to have information about:

Warranty Stuff
Performance Mods
Lifting
Tire Fitment
Purchase Price Info
Audio


Thanks To:

Carbeaux, Swarren1, PreRunnerGreg, BKW, DMan

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Old 12-01-2006, 07:24 PM   #7
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Re: Best of Titantalk

Thanks davis, i should be gettin my first new Titan within 30 days. SWEET! No more callin the towtruck for my chevy's! ...knock on wood
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Old 12-02-2006, 06:08 AM   #8
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Re: Best of Titantalk

Great summary, excellent layout, accurate and concise. Need MagnaFlow and Muffler only info if you can. This is an extremely useful little project you have undertaken, many thanks.
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AEM BruteForce CAI; PowerAid TBS; MagnaFlow 3" x 24" Muffler; UpRev 93 Tuned; Detroit TrueTrac
Stillen Front and Rear AntiSway Bars, Diff. Cover, Front Rotors & Pads
PRG 2-1/2" and 1" MiniLift, Street Traction Bars
DYNO: 308 RWHP & 380 RWTQ
~CRANK: 360 HP & 450 TQ
Born June 12, 2006
Adopted June 27, 2006

14.792 secs at 91.04 mph prior to TrueTrac

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Old 12-02-2006, 03:16 PM   #9
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Re: Best of Titantalk

figured I'd bump this up in case anyone has contributions they wanna make.
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Old 12-02-2006, 03:50 PM   #10
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Re: Best of Titantalk

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Originally Posted by adavis99
Purchasing Tips (New Vehicle):

1. Do your Homework. Buying a vehicle is probably the 2nd biggest purchase you will make. Research and comparison shopping can save you thousands of dollars.

2. Know Dealer invoice price for the truck you are buying. You should be able to buy @ or slightly under dealer invoice Link. They still make 3% dealer holdback.

3. Buy based on vehicle price not monthly payment amount.

4. If financing, find out the best rate your local credit union will offer, Only use dealer financing if they beat the credit union.

5. Don't be concerned when a dealer says this deal is only good for today, it's BS.

6. Dealers (Salesman) have monthly quotas, end of the month can sometimes be bargain time.

7. Will you be reselling in a few years? If so, buying a last years closeout hurts resale value. Also, BigTow package can really help resale (warning: worse mpg with BigTow).

8. Just say no to dealer add-ons such as etching, paint protecting, rust proofing etc. These are profit drivers for the dealership. If you want it done, negotiate it with shops afterwards and I bet you they beat the dealer by about 50%. Watch out for paperwork fees. Transport fee is a real cost and is usually acceptable ($500).


May I add the Doc Fee...a total rip off designed by dealers to make up more profit after all the negotiations are done. This rip-off only appears on the contract...I've seen fees from $45.00 to over 2 grand. Most people just sign and go.

A Document Fee is what the dealers want to charge YOU the buyer to have their dealership personnal write up the various paperwork.

I've never paid it, and you shouldn't either. Someone posted that a $50.00 fee is acceptable....to them maybe, not to me.

Threaten to walk unless dealer removes/lowers it.
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Old 12-02-2006, 07:15 PM   #11
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Re: Best of Titantalk

Quote:
Originally Posted by BKW
May I add the Doc Fee...a total rip off designed by dealers to make up more profit after all the negotiations are done. This rip-off only appears on the contract...I've seen fees from $45.00 to over 2 grand. Most people just sign and go.

A Document Fee is what the dealers want to charge YOU the buyer to have their dealership personnal write up the various paperwork.

I've never paid it, and you shouldn't either. Someone posted that a $50.00 fee is acceptable....to them maybe, not to me.

Threaten to walk unless dealer removes/lowers it.

I agree with BKW here. The dealer pays the salary of the individual doing all the paperwork. We don't need to give them pure profit to cover their overhead.

Oh, and Adavis, did you grab the tire fitment spreadsheet someone had worked up? Swarren1 (I think that's his TT name) has a lot of info on tire fitment and what works/doesn't work.

Great job! Can't wait to see the rest! This is a great idea!
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Old 12-02-2006, 10:38 PM   #12
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Re: Best of Titantalk

great info!!!
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Old 12-03-2006, 01:58 PM   #13
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Re: Best of Titantalk

Thanks BB

Carbeaux sent me a pm that was supposed to have a link to the spread sheet but it was missing.
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Old 12-03-2006, 05:57 PM   #14
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Re: Best of Titantalk

Thanks for the info. Ill have my dealer look at the 2 degree timing advance info.
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