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Old 12-18-2006, 02:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Alignment - Does Anyone Know What They Are Talking About?

I installed my PRG mini lift kit (2" front, 1" rear) on my 2007 Crew Cab Titan LE (has BT and OR plus every other availabe option except for the power folding mirrors) Saturday. Since then I have been trying to get it aligned without any luck.

The first shop I took it to said that because the truck has been lifted their alignment software will not work. The alignment software is only good for standard trucks. They recommended that I take it to an alignment specialist.

Now that I had learned my lesson, I explained to the next outfit that my truck was lifted and asked them if that would be a problem. No problem they said, we just put the calibration equipment on and make sure it is within specs. Great, so I drop my truck off with them on Saturday. This morning they called and said well we can't do it because your truck is a 2007 and we our software can only handle 2006 Titans.

Now I decide to call a bunch of different shops and see what they all say and compare their answers. Another shop says that they can do it because they happen to know that the specs for the 2007 have not changed from the 2006 model so they can use the old software, the fact that it is lifted does not matter. Now I am confused because the first shop said they can't use the software because it is lifted, but this shop is telling me that it doesn't matter. Other shops tell me that their software has the 2007 information in it and that the lift doesn't matter. Still another shop told me that I can't adjust caster, just camber and toe and that only the front tires can be adjusted. To adjust the rear tire you would have to bend the axles, which, of course, is not an option.

My question is who is right? Do I need a four wheel alignment? Is it even possible to align the rear wheels (without bending the axles)? Are toe, camber and caster adjustable on the wheels? Does my lift render most alignment software useless? If so, who do I take it to?

I would appreciate any insight you have.
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Old 12-18-2006, 07:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Alignment - Does Anyone Know What They Are Talking About?

The alignment specifications would be the same for stock as lifted. Your 2007 should have the same specifications as all previous years. The rear alignment is not normally adjusted on a vehicle with a straight rear axle as it does not change unless damaged. When adding the leveling kit the Toe is what is affected the most, this is adjusted with the tie rod ends. Toe is the angle of the tires front to front rear to rear, like so if we were to look at them from above ||. Camber is the angle of the tire top to bottom. Negative Camber is when the top of the tire is leaned in toward to center of the vehicle. Positive Camber is when the top of the tire is leaning away from the center of the vehicle. Caster is the angle of the centerline of the upper and lower ball joints front to rear, so if we were looking from the side of the vehicle and this was the angle / with the top more rearward this would be called positive caster. Positive is good it helps the wheels return to center after a turn, too much positive caster increases steering effort. So the way the Titan is built, like most every other vehicle, when you adjust the camber you also adjust the caster, because they are adjusted by the SAME set of eccentrics. 2007 Titan's come from the factory with a non adjustable eccentric that attaches the lower control arm to the frame. If the caster and/or camber need to be adjusted the lower eccentrics must be replaced with the adjustable eccentrics from the dealer. I hope this helps.
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Alignment - Does Anyone Know What They Are Talking About?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dblagent007
My question is who is right?
Let's go point by point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dblagent007
The first shop I took it to said that because the truck has been lifted their alignment software will not work. The alignment software is only good for standard trucks. They recommended that I take it to an alignment specialist.
They are wrong (and not very bright) when they say that their alignment rack can't be used to align your truck. It can.

They are right when they recommend that you take it to another shop. If they're too stupid to do it, be glad that they're telling you to go elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dblagent007
This morning they called and said well we can't do it because your truck is a 2007 and we our software can only handle 2006 Titans.
Because there has been no change in alignment specs (which they could have easily verified using their computer specs and the specs listed in your owners manual), they are wrong. Their 2006 specs would have worked fine on your 2007.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dblagent007
Another shop says that they can do it because they happen to know that the specs for the 2007 have not changed from the 2006 model so they can use the old software, the fact that it is lifted does not matter.
Correct. Sounds like a good place for you to take your truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dblagent007
Still another shop told me that I can't adjust caster, just camber and toe and that only the front tires can be adjusted.
Correct, you can't adjust front or rear caster.

Correct, you can adjust camber & toe on the front wheels.

Correct, you can't adjust rear camber or toe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dblagent007
Do I need a four wheel alignment?
It's the only kind you're going to get, and yes, you need a four wheel alignment. The front wheels are adjusted in relation to the rear wheels for thrust angle. If the rear axle is too out of whack (meaning one side is too far forward or rearward in relation to the other side), you'll have to adjust the rear axle to get the thrust angle in spec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dblagent007
Are toe, camber and caster adjustable on the wheels?
Nothing is adjustable on the wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dblagent007
Does my lift render most alignment software useless?
No, not at all. The alignment of your truck is still adjusted in the same manner and to the same specs as a stock truck (unless you wish to specify your own alignment angles).

It is possible to render alignment racks worthless if your tires are too large to fit the sensors to - but the software still wouldn't be an issue. If you end up lifting more and getting 37" or larger tires, you may have to put different wheels/tires (smaller) on to get an alignment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dblagent007
If so, who do I take it to?
Take it to the shop that said they could do it. Out of all the shops you mentioned, they're the only ones who have a clue.
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Alignment - Does Anyone Know What They Are Talking About?

Also make sure they can align your size and type of rim. I am an alignment tech at a Goodyear store and my alignment heads that mount to the wheel will not fit. There are add ons that will allow them to but some shops will try to work around it and possibly scratch your rims so watch for this.
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:38 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Alignment - Does Anyone Know What They Are Talking About?

I appreciate everyone's help with this. I agree that the one shop that said they could do it using the 2006 Titan specs is the place to go. The others are idiots. Both the dealer and the one shop that knew what they were talking about said that the only thing on a stock 2007 Titan that is adjustable is the toe on the front wheels. If the camber is off on the front wheels, then I have to order and install a part to make it adjustable. The caster is not adjustable period.
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