2008 or 2009 Diesel 1/2 ton truck

tholmes · 10-02-2007, 01:33 PM

I forgot to mention this. About four months ago, I got invited to do a JD Power & Associates Study. I was actually getting out of my truck at a mall and was approached. I listened to the tag line and said sure. They were trying to gauge the interest of 1/2ton truck buyers (all brand type owners were there, about 20 of us) and we were given a 30 minute presentation about diesels and why they make power, how they are efficient and different from the old age of big rig motors, etc. and then on to a questionaire afterwards on computers. Essentially, they had us talk about our ideal truck and what we expected to pay for it with all the options included. Then it went on to say what if you could only get side airbags with sunroof, would you pay this amount, etc, etc. The first part on the computer took about 10 minutes. Then they drilled us for 20 minutes on optional engines matched to different brands at different price points. They would give you the big three plus Tundra and Titan and match it to a made up trim level with different motors. These motors were different gas models out there plus 2 "imaginary" diesel options, one NA V8 that had 320hp and 450 tq. (14mpg City and 19mpg Highway) and one twin turbo 3.5l v6 that had 250hp and 395 tq. (18mpg City and 26mpg Highway). From the way they kept badgering and "building" or offerring the vehicle types, it seems like it was a Ford they were pushing with this 3.5l v6 twin turbo. Might be interesting to see how this pans out.

I ended up getting a free meal at the food court and a $20 gift card to the mall for my time. That makes me think that this was a little more than just a half@$$ed waste of my time and could be leading to something.

TallTexan · 10-02-2007, 01:58 PM

I see where GM will be comming out with a new 4.5 litre diesel. Probably for 1/2 ton trucks and SUVs. It is a Duramax. Might be interesting. Can you imagine the goodies that will come out for that engine.

Vegas04 · 10-02-2007, 03:14 PM

When you think about it is NUTS that nobody has made a Diesel 1/2 ton Pickup truck in the past fifteen years or so. Even VW New Beetles are available with Diesels.

Seranin · 10-02-2007, 04:32 PM

If Nissan had offered a turbo diesel with even the same performance of the gas V8, at a 4,000 premium I would've bought it. More than that and it would've been out of my price range.

99% Bio diesel is available at the pump locally for the same cost as petro diesel... much less if I wanted to bother with gathering and filtering my own. Having a turbo for power potential, driving a vehicle without making the princes of saudi arabia richer and not having to drive a Big 3 P.O.S? Sign me up!

**Carbeaux** · 10-02-2007, 04:38 PM

Since diesels are catching on more here in the states with the newer, cleaner technology you can bet that someone will have one soon. I wish it would be Nissan!

BuckyBadger · 10-02-2007, 05:07 PM

I have noticed quite a jump for Diesel fuel at the pump, 3.12 here. Is this because more people are using diesels?

dksfowler · 10-02-2007, 05:18 PM

chevy was still making a 1/2 deisel around 98. was news to me but ran across it it down here by circleville when i was shopping.

tholmes · 10-02-2007, 05:21 PM

If I had to guess as to why diesel is on the rise, it would be because the oil percentage in diesel is higher than that of gasoline. With oil prices at these high numbers and diesel having the higher percenage of oil content, hence the reason for higher diesel prices.

Honestly, I a don't know for certain if diesel does have a higher content of oil than gas. I know it isn't refined as much... I assume that means a higher oil content, but don't take that to the bank. I think someone else on here is known as the googlewhore.

eightballsidepocket · 10-02-2007, 06:02 PM

Actually the oil companies use the excuse that they are gearing up for heating oil production for the Winter, and that usually triggers a "spike" in diesel prices.

If we get more diesel powered cars as well as light duty p.u.'s bought and driven in the U.S., it may bring the diesel price down, as refineries will have to convert or do some changes to create more diesel production.

Initial prices may go up until the oil companies recoup their infrastructure expenses for the added diesel output.
*****
I'm really interested in this upcoming small displacement Cummins V8 diesel that is planned for the 1/2 ton Dodge Ram P.U.'s.

I'd take a Cummins engined p.u. over a Navstar (International) engined p.u. in a wink of an eye.

The Navstar 6.0 used in the most recent F series Fords was plagued with so many problems. I wouldn't trust the new 6.4 navstar in the new F series Fords either.

Ford spent over billions in warranty work claims on the 6.0 Powerstroke.

Also, recent dyno tests by a diesel P.U. magazine showed that the new Duramax 6.6, and the Dodge/Cummins 6.7 were nearly identical in h.p. and torque, but the new 6.4 Ford Powerstroke was measurably down on h.p. and torque compared to the first two mentioned diesels.

Even the Ford Navstar Powerstroke 6.4 was much lower in fuel mileage than the Cummins and Duramax.

It sure concerns me if Nissan is going with the Navstar diesel.

Diesel World Magazine

So, here's the numbers.

Chev 2500HD 6.6L Duramax
Power at the rear wheels: 327hp/583tq
1/4 mile: 14.69s
0-60 unloaded: 7.18s
0-60 w/9850# trailer: 20.69s
Observed average mpg**: 14.6 mpg (best tankful 14.79 mpg, worst 13.88 mpg)Vehicle weight as tested: 6609#

Dodge 2500 6.7L Cummins
Power at the rear wheels: 321hp/582tq
1/4 mile: 15.2s
0-60 unloaded: 7.8s
0-60 w/9850# trailer: 20.75s
Observed average mpg**: 14.5 mpg (Best tankful 16.55 mpg, worst 12.38 mpg)Vehicle weight as tested: 7165# (note - longbox, the others were shortboxes)

Ford F350 (SRW) 6.4L Powerstroke
Power at the rear wheels: 274hp/539tq
1/4 mile: 15.58s
0-60 unloaded: 8.7s
0-60 w/9850# trailer: 22.22s
Observed average mpg**: 11.06 mpg (Best tankful 13.36 mpg, worst 8.27 mpg)Vehicle weight as tested: 6698#

desertruner09 · 10-02-2007, 11:37 PM

I don't think Navstar is as bad as everyone thinks. From what I've heard, most of the problems with Ford's 6.0's are basically because Ford designed it their way and didn't let Navstar have much input in the design phase. I may be completely wrong on that, but that is my understanding on the whole thing.

Juday · 10-03-2007, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertruner09

I don't think Navstar is as bad as everyone thinks. From what I've heard, most of the problems with Ford's 6.0's are basically because Ford designed it their way and didn't let Navstar have much input in the design phase. I may be completely wrong on that, but that is my understanding on the whole thing.

I agree with you on that. I think with Nissan's history with building diesel engines (very good ones from what I understand), that Nissan would not let Navistar build them a poor performing diesel. Also, isn't Nissan having a major part in helping design of the new diesel? The significance of them building a 1/2 ton diesel (for the U.S. market) in this very competitive market is huge. Nissan cannot afford to build a lousy, poor performing engine if they expect to gain a piece of the market. Out of curiousity, you don't think Nissan will put the 6.4L (currently in the Ford) into the Titan do you?

P.S. I cannot wait until the day the Nissan Titan HD (or 2500) comes onto the market. If any of you "insiders" know anything about the production of this, please let me know.

mtofell · 10-03-2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juday

P.S. I cannot wait until the day the Nissan Titan HD (or 2500) comes onto the market. If any of you "insiders" know anything about the production of this, please let me know.

I'm there too... I almost didn't want to open this thread... I'm so sick of just hearing rumors from the manufacturers with no results of plans. Ford has stopped just short of announcing a date several times only to then backtrack on the whole thing... It's just been rumors by all of the manufacturers..... It's crazy.

I'm pretty seriously thinking of a Duramax since I tow a 7000 travel trailer pretty regularly. I REALLY don't want to buy a GM product though.... I suppose their cars/trucks are nice these days but I just remember how many total POS they made.

CoeCEO · 10-03-2007, 10:17 AM

I was browsing the Nissan UK site when I first started researching the Titan (1.5 years ago) and they had a diesel Frontier that was offered in that market. Anyone familiar with that?

Side - Bio-Diesel is also on the rise for autos and home heating. I have actually seen some local heating companies advertising "made in the USA" biofuel for home heating systems. Thats a nice trend there. ANd Bio-diesel is slowly getting more effiecient, I think DuPont is working on a high performance version and in fact a bio diesel fueled motorcycle recently broke the motorcycle speed record.

Wi$h · 10-03-2007, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertruner09

I don't think Navstar is as bad as everyone thinks. From what I've heard, most of the problems with Ford's 6.0's are basically because Ford designed it their way and didn't let Navstar have much input in the design phase. I may be completely wrong on that, but that is my understanding on the whole thing.

Actually the only part on the 6.0 engine that is from ford is the pcm. Being a Ford tech I've heard rumors hear and there about why the engine is so crappy, but nothing is solid. Fact of the matter is, that engine is crap, I don't know why it is, but it just is. And at one point the injectors were failing on them so much you couldn't even order a replacement, they stopped producing them until they could engineer a better design. Crazy stuff. Now the 6.4 I havn't really seen alot of problems. Couple things here and there with the EGR and DPF system, just normal stuff really. People do complain about the mileage, but that is because there is an injector that sprays fuel into the DPF to "purge" it. But Internationals really aren't that bad, go find anyone with a DT 466 and they will probably tell you good things about it.

And on bio-diesel, like everything there is good and bad with it. Good thing is that with the new ULSD that is out now, which doesn't have near the lubrication properties as LSD, bio diesel adds alot of lubricity to the fuel, which is good for a diesel. But it is also a solvent, and if you have a truck that is older, you might find that after you run it your fuel filters get clogged pretty quick, which is not good. Thats why Ford only says B5 max in the powerstrokes, cuz what happens is they run B20 or B50 or whatever, it cleans out their whole fuel system and all that crap collects on the filters, clogs em and then your fuel pressure goes way down. And thats when the injectors fail, cuz they don't like to be run dry. Another problem with bio, it has a lower energy content than diesel, so fuel mileage is less with bio. And lastly bio gells alot easier than diesel, especially ULSD, as it gets colder. So like i said good and bad with it.