Titan to get Diesel and a V6 - Page 2

Titan4mde · 10-10-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitanEngineer

For those who don't already know Navistar=International its the parent company, and yes I too have heard the Heavy-duty project was on hold (although I have also heard a grumbling that this wasn't entirely true) but that the Diesel in the half-ton was still a go, since all major manufacturers plan on doing this by 2009, I find this easier to beleive since this would require very minimal tooling changes in the plant itself whereas the HD project would require several new separate assembly linses and a major retooling of the plant

You are absolutely correct. The initial investment is the kicker. You are also correct on the half ton diesel. I think that would suit my world pretty well!!

D'TITAN · 10-10-2007, 03:58 PM

I am not so sure that a diesel in a 1/2 ton is such a good idea. I know that the option for the diesel is pretty expensive, I believe that the option is about $8,000 extra for the new Ford Super Duty, not sure how much the option would be in a 1/2 ton. It seems the reason why the option is more now is because of all the new emission controls on these new motors and the new diesels seem to be less fuel efficient. The fuel is more expensive at this time. In general the 1/2 tons are rated to tow about 10,000 lbs, I can't see them increasing that rating with a diesel, because how much are you really going to safely tow with a 1/2 ton. If they put a diesel in a 1/2 ton, it would have to provide some really impressive fuel mileage in order to make it worth while in my opinion.

LandShark · 10-10-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titan4mde

You are absolutely correct. The initial investment is the kicker. You are also correct on the half ton diesel. I think that would suit my world pretty well!!

I think come 2010/11 I'll be seriously looking at a 1/2 diesel. Been waiting forever for a diesel friendly U.S market.

LandShark · 10-10-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D'TITAN

I am not so sure that a diesel in a 1/2 ton is such a good idea. I know that the option for the diesel is pretty expensive, I believe that the option is about $8,000 extra for the new Ford Super Duty, not sure how much the option would be in a 1/2 ton. It seems the reason why the option is more now is because of all the new emission controls on these new motors and the new diesels seem to be less fuel efficient. The fuel is more expensive at this time. In general the 1/2 tons are rated to tow about 10,000 lbs, I can't see them increasing that rating with a diesel, because how much are you really going to safely tow with a 1/2 ton. If they put a diesel in a 1/2 ton, it would have to provide some really impressive fuel mileage in order to make it worth while in my opinion.

We will probably see a 15-20% increase in fuel economy based on current diesel options. Fuel economy, engine longitivity plus increase towing capacity will be the big selling points.

TitanEngineer · 10-10-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titan4mde

One other thing, not to hi-jack, but the entire diesel world is getting flipped on its lid according to a source that I CANNOT confirm. Again, so there is no confusion; this source is unconfirmed===the rumors are: Dodge lost their lifetime rights to Cummings when the introduced a non-Cummings diesel product, the Jeep Diesel. When that happened, Ford stepped in with their controlling part of Cummings and pressured the pull of the Cummings from Dodge. The source claimed that Cummings was going in the Ford??? He also stated that the Isuzu based diesel in the GM's was the reason that Nissan did not have that option(Isuzu's are TERREFIC diesel's-work with them every day and we would be lucky to get them in a Titan). Nissan was also skeptical about the isuzu name badge deterring sales-don't really know why cause I love 'em!!! BTW: if the Ford-Cummings thing is true, Dodge will have no worries because right now(and this is fact) Benz has a RV based diesel that is making 490HP and 1132ftlbs. of torque!!!!! The amazing thing is its only a 7.? L.

Dodge has not lost rights to Cummins, as they dont have exclusivity except on the motor already being used, you can already get a cummins in a ford 550+. And for the last time please do not keep spreading the rumors that Ford has controlling interest in Cummins, they dont own one solitary share, there was even a FAQ entry on Cummins website about it at one time because this rumor is so rampant.

here I found the FAQ, top of page:
http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.j...x=3&index=5#Q2

Putting a Diesel in a half ton will more than likely be a 4000+ premium but will more than likely have 20% better mileage. Will it pay for itself in mileage? probably not unless you tow a lot. What are the other benefits of having a diesel, well look at it this way, not too many companies are making performance parts for the 5.6, but if there was a diesel that already has similar programming you will see more performance options, is that worth the premium, well thats a judgement call

wvtitan08 · 10-10-2007, 04:57 PM

I work at a diesel shop. And i can tell you this much the powerstrokes are junk. The 7.3 was ok, but you cant make the power like you can in the cummins. The 6.0 are junk and the 6.4 are not any better. But i own a titan. I work on all the big three. Take my titan any day over the crap the big three make.

Titan4mde · 10-10-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitanEngineer

Dodge has not lost rights to Cummins, as they dont have exclusivity except on the motor already being used, you can already get a cummins in a ford 550+. And for the last time please do not keep spreading the rumors that Ford has controlling interest in Cummins, they dont own one solitary share, there was even a FAQ entry on Cummins website about it at one time because this rumor is so rampant.

here I found the FAQ, top of page:
http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.j...x=3&index=5#Q2

Putting a Diesel in a half ton will more than likely be a 4000+ premium but will more than likely have 20% better mileage. Will it pay for itself in mileage? probably not unless you tow a lot. What are the other benefits of having a diesel, well look at it this way, not too many companies are making performance parts for the 5.6, but if there was a diesel that already has similar programming you will see more performance options, is that worth the premium, well thats a judgement call

Thanks for clearing that up, like I emphasized; unconfirmed rumors!!!! I have heard for years that ugly rumor about Cummins/Ford. I, myself, have always loved the Cummins engine and would hate to see it go into that cheaply put together truck! and yes I am speaking from experience. Of the eight that I have had dealings with, there is a LOT more wrong with those superduty's than a poorly designed engine. The whole deal with Benz/Chrysler has always puzzled me though. Why not go with their proven, Kick-Azz performers???

Titan4mde · 10-10-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvtitan08

I work at a diesel shop. And i can tell you this much the powerstrokes are junk. The 7.3 was ok, but you cant make the power like you can in the cummins. The 6.0 are junk and the 6.4 are not any better. But i own a titan. I work on all the big three. Take my titan any day over the crap the big three make.

You preach it brother and I'll stomp my foot!!

powdercoat · 10-10-2007, 08:39 PM

That'd be cool but I would wait at least a year after introduction to buy (sound familiar ). Of course, International is Navistar and they have built the old powerstrokes for a long time. They know how to build a great diesel engine. I traded my F250 in on my Titan and was glad to get away from the diesel a while.

TitanBlue · 10-10-2007, 08:46 PM

Cost to consumer for Diesels, is steadily going down. It is now just 2,000 more, for in cars. The 1/2 ton Pickup is bigger than a car, but not by a long stretch. I'd expect a cost of 3K, mileage to be 24-25 highway, instead of 17-18. We're back to cheaper fuel again (was higher than 93 Octane, now like mid grade around here). Maintenance can be cheaper, but isn't always. Some of us would just love to own a small diesel! Diesels make a lot of sense. the entire market is moving to modern diesels, and gas/hybrids, and then diesel/hybrids. It'll help move people from cars, and into trucks for the first time, if mileage looks so much better. 6 mpg increae is huge.

Delta15 · 10-10-2007, 09:04 PM

I wish we could have a small duramax in our titans!!

mtofell · 10-10-2007, 10:20 PM

The diesel upgrade in the big 3 runs around $7500... that's a bit misleading because that's msrp which is typically discounted HUGELY... My local Dodge dealers run weekley ads with 10,000 or more off msrp. So, in reality it's about a $5000 upgrade.

I can't take the wait any longer.... I'm looking pretty seriously at the Duramax 2500.... As mentioned on this thread, the Fords are having HUGE issues..... The Cummins is a great engine but rumor has it the truck falls apart around the engine. The Duramax/Allison 6spd tranny is a pretty sweet combo.

I'd love to get a Titan diesel... I'm starting to think I'll be an old folks home by the time that's possible.

RockyMtnMechanic · 10-10-2007, 10:22 PM

I was taught that a inline 6 cylinder is the most durable engine . if it was a turbo diesel that would be one hell of a half ton!

TitanEngineer · 10-11-2007, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvtitan08

I work at a diesel shop. And i can tell you this much the powerstrokes are junk. The 7.3 was ok, but you cant make the power like you can in the cummins. The 6.0 are junk and the 6.4 are not any better. But i own a titan. I work on all the big three. Take my titan any day over the crap the big three make.

I always heard rumors that Ford's Electrical side of the powerstrokes was causing all the problems and it was Ford's lack of quality that made the newer motors so bad. However I have done a lot of contracting with an international plant in the last year, and I hate to say it but they make Ford look like a Mercedes comparably. Time will only tell if Nissan sticks with them.

cneary812 · 10-11-2007, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyMtnMechanic

I was taught that a inline 6 cylinder is the most durable engine . if it was a turbo diesel that would be one hell of a half ton!

inlines are always better. the pistons are going up and down and there is no uneven wear on the sides causing ovaling. That is the main reason that the cummins is superior. They took a big diesel and made it smaller, so until the other diesel manufacturers learn that...

diesels in 1/2 tons is an easy way for the manufacturers to get their average mpgs up overall considerabally. Remember they are mandated to get them up, short from getting rid of full sized trucks (never happen) this is the only way to reallistically get mpgs up.