Air vs. Nitrogen filled tires - Page 2

**HudsonValleyTitan** · 11-07-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titan Pete

Remember it is all in PV=nRT or P=nRT/V......

Who you calling a pervert?!

master_1011 · 11-08-2007, 01:07 AM

Nitrogen is not the end all be all. In fact, if you pay for it...well....the word idiot comes to mind.

Nitrogen is, in fact, susseptable(sp) to ambient air temperature changes. The pressure will go up and down depending on tire temp. It may not be as drastic as air, but it does move. I work with nitrogen every day on helicopter tires and accumulators that are all precharged with nitrogen. There are very specific and calibrated charts that display the temp changes.

Anyways, I would not ever pay for it. Even if Costco uses it "for free" I would be to lazy to go there just for tire servicing...especially since I have an air compressor in my garage.

What are you buying tires at costco for, anyways??

**HudsonValleyTitan** · 11-08-2007, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_1011

Nitrogen is not the end all be all. In fact, if you pay for it...well....the word idiot comes to mind.

Nitrogen is, in fact, susseptable(sp) to ambient air temperature changes. The pressure will go up and down depending on tire temp. It may not be as drastic as air, but it does move. I work with nitrogen every day on helicopter tires and accumulators that are all precharged with nitrogen. There are very specific and calibrated charts that display the temp changes.

Anyways, I would not ever pay for it. Even if Costco uses it "for free" I would be to lazy to go there just for tire servicing...especially since I have an air compressor in my garage.

What are you buying tires at costco for, anyways??

If you work with Nitrogen, you know that no....Nitrogen is NOT susceptible to ambient temperature changes anywhere NEAR regular air. Which is why race cars teams can adjust as little as a 1/4 LB at each corner to change handling. Your line of work must be a LOT more precise than needed for automotive use. I personally wouldn't pay for Nitrogen but unlike air filled tires, which can lose between 1 and 2 PSI a month, Nitrogen filled tires hold their pressure. Nitrogen also won't corrode rubber or rims like regular air can.

helomech · 11-08-2007, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HudsonValleyTitan

If you work with Nitrogen, you know that no....Nitrogen is NOT susceptible to ambient temperature changes anywhere NEAR regular air. Which is why race cars teams can adjust as little as a 1/4 LB at each corner to change handling. Your line of work must be a LOT more precise than needed for automotive use. I personally wouldn't pay for Nitrogen but unlike air filled tires, which can lose between 1 and 2 PSI a month, Nitrogen filled tires hold their pressure. Nitrogen also won't corrode rubber or rims like regular air can.

We also use nitrogen in our helicopter tires, and they still need serviced every now and then. Nitrogen pressure does fluctuate with temp and altitude, just not as much as regular air. I can get all the free nitrogen I want and I don't use it in my tires, just no real advantage for regular use. Like master 1011 said, there are charts near the wheels on all aircraft that will tell you what the pressure should be at a certain temp. We also use nitrogen in our emergency float systems, and I will fluctuate quite a bit on real hot days, and cold nights.

cneary812 · 11-08-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgbdwlf2500

you should check for leaks, no matter what is filling them it should never go down unless theres a problem or you drop pressure on purpose

this time of year here in MD we have very high swings in temperature and it plays havock on tire pressure. I don't have any leaks it just is what it is.

cneary812 · 11-08-2007, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_1011

What are you buying tires at costco for, anyways??

so closed minded are we?

costco is the bomb but they don't carry the tires I would use on my truck anyway, if they did, I would look at them just like I would any other tire shop.

another note on nitrogen vs air. Air has alot of moisture in it and that moisture is affected by tire temperatures. Nitrogen is moisture free so the nitrogen environment is dry thus helping keep the tire insides dry and clean.

helomech · 11-08-2007, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cneary812

so closed minded are we?

costco is the bomb but they don't carry the tires I would use on my truck anyway, if they did, I would look at them just like I would any other tire shop.

another note on nitrogen vs air. Air has alot of moisture in it and that moisture is affected by tire temperatures. Nitrogen is moisture free so the nitrogen environment is dry thus helping keep the tire insides dry and clean.

Yes, but the tire is filled with air when it is seated to the rim, so you are still running lots of air in your tire even if filled with nitrogen. So you will still have moisture in the tire no matter what you put in the tire.

cneary812 · 11-08-2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helomech

Yes, but the tire is filled with air when it is seated to the rim, so you are still running lots of air in your tire even if filled with nitrogen. So you will still have moisture in the tire no matter what you put in the tire.

so they still set the bead with air? thought they did that with the valve stem off? and yes there will always be moisture in there but not as much as from straight air.

helomech · 11-08-2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cneary812

so they still set the bead with air? thought they did that with the valve stem off? and yes there will always be moisture in there but not as much as from straight air.

I should have said it differently, I am not sure how they seat it, but the tire will still have lots of air in it either way. I didn't mean to say seat it, I should have said when they install the tire on the rim.

atlas808 · 11-09-2007, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helomech

I should have said it differently, I am not sure how they seat it, but the tire will still have lots of air in it either way. I didn't mean to say seat it, I should have said when they install the tire on the rim.

the way it works at costco is that, after installing the tire to the rim, it is hooked up to an tire inflator. it is an automatic inflation system. when the desired inflation is punched in a button is pressed and starts to inflate. when the desired inflation has been reached, it then purges the inflation from the tire. it does this, to remove the remaing air that is left in the tire when it has been mounted to the rim. the reason of doing this is that supposely the air will purge out first before the nitrogen. after it has been purged out a certian amount of mixture, the inflator then agains inflates the tire to the keyed in setting.

i work there and i have nitrogen in my in all of my cars, i really don't see much of a difference on my cars. the one thing i can see nitrogen helps, is for the chrome plated rims, less mositure means less corrosion. i have seen many rims where the chrome, flakes off the bead due to corrosion. whether if its air or nitrogen, the main thing is just to check your pressure regularly.

Quartz · 11-09-2007, 04:25 AM

Noooooooo! Not nitrogen again. Save your money, buy a compressor, and don't give money to con men.

Orion · 11-14-2007, 03:09 PM

Go with the Nitrogen!!! I have made the switch and it has solved my slow air leak problems on the aluminum alloy wheels. Water vapor in the air causes corrosion that slowily creeps under the tire bead seal causing a slow leak. Also nitrogen volume stays pretty much the same regardless of temperature. Plain old air changes volume more due to the water vapor. Regarding the cost it should be less than $5 per tire: Dunn Tire in New York does it for free with a purchase and $2 per tire to change over. Good luck.

Yahooligan · 11-14-2007, 03:32 PM

I don't really care either way as long as it's free. For the Titan, does it really matter? Probably not, the tires are going to wear out before the oxygen rots the inside of the tire.

I *may* use it on my TT when we get one as the tires tend to last a lot longer since they are not drive or steering tires, so the primary concerns are rot. Cover the tires on the outside to guard against sun rot and use nitrogen to protect against oxygen rotting the inside out.

TxsTitan · 11-14-2007, 09:04 PM

I spent some years in the Air Force and understood that the main reason that they used nitrogen in aircraft tires is because nitrogen is an asphyxiant (removes oxygen from the air). This removes one major component of the fire triangle therefore reducing the risk of fires caused by blowouts during high pressure landings. I don't see that really coming into play in automobiles.

Yahooligan · 11-14-2007, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxsTitan

I spent some years in the Air Force and understood that the main reason that they used nitrogen in aircraft tires is because nitrogen is an asphyxiant (removes oxygen from the air). This removes one major component of the fire triangle therefore reducing the risk of fires caused by blowouts during high pressure landings. I don't see that really coming into play in automobiles.

The big thing is the moisture. The last thing a pilot wants is moisture condensing and then collecting at the bottom of the tire, then freezing, only to cause a severe imbalance upon landing that could tear the tire apart.

Dry nitrogen helps prevent wheel corrosion on the inside and prevents introducing moisture. I don't buy the notion that it reduces the risk of fire. Afterall, what is the airplane surrounded by that allows it to fly? Oxygen isn't flammable, so a blowout that results in sparks or excess heat is going to be fanned by all the air passing by as the plane lands anyway. Whatever oxygen was in the tires is not going to be sufficient to support a fire of any size and, again, is dwarfed by all the oxygen in the atmosphere.