Ethanol/FFV a scam? - Page 2

lowlypawn · 11-14-2007, 03:28 PM

On the global warming subject, I saw on TV the other night about how there are natural heating and cooling cycles of the earth. But right now we are suppose to be in one of those cooling cycles yet we have increased out temperature by 1 degree over the last 15 years I believe.

Is this caused by cars and people? Who the hell knows BUT. To say that humans burning 50 billion tons of fossil fuel has NO, ZERO & NILL effect on the earth is JUST as ridiculous as stating we for sure are the caused of global warming.

We might only contribute to .0001 degrees or maybe the full degree. The earth is such a complex system we will probably never know for sure. Only when all our coast land is flooded, mass famine and ½ the population is dead will the hard core conservatives (witch I lean towards much more then the left) admit that just maybe they were wrong. But the other side’s solutions to the problems don’t seem to be much better and seems to be in “image” only.

I think we need to invest in solar energy now while we have the cash. If solar cells were installed and covered just 10% of Nevada that would be enough to power all of the USA. But that would cost 5000+ billion dollars and it’s much cheaper to keep using fossil fuels, especially since the evidence is hardly concrete. You’re not going to get the massed to spend that much cash on something that most consider unnecessary.

But for everyone that reads this don’t worry! It wont effect you, probably wont even effect your kids. But your kid’s kids might have a real situation on their hands. Since I don’t have any kids (or plans to) it really makes no difference to me if global warming is real or not. It just kills me how people can be so sure that it’s NOT (or that is is). But at least the tree huggers are on the safe side of the bet. If there wrong they just spend 50 zillion dollars that would of probably been wasted on national health care. If the burn baby burn crowd is wrong, well we all die in 100 to 1000 years….

neverlate · 11-14-2007, 04:50 PM

FFV capable or not, I have a feeling E85 is no good for the Titan in the long run. So I run gas most of the time. I do have to admit, I have compared mileage, and with approximately a 50/50 blend of E85 and gas(90% gas w/10%ethanol) and strictly highway driven miles, I have averaged 16-17 mpg.
Coupled with a heavy subsidy here in Minnesota for the E85 (60 cent discount per gallon vs gas), I could save a few bucks. But as I said above, I don't trust the stuff.... I have read that it cannot be transported via pipeline because it is too corrosive. What does that tell you about what it might do to your truck in the long run. Screw E85 ! It's only making farmers rich at consumers expense.

450xDaD · 11-14-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by master_1011

Al gore is an idiot. End of story.

Global warming is a fact, but it is NOT caused, or accelerated, by man. It is a natural occurance.

amen brother! I know I'm hijacking my own thread but this is a great video on your exact point......Get the popcorn, it's long....but pretty good.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=8

**HudsonValleyTitan** · 11-14-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450xDaD

amen brother! I know I'm hijacking my own thread but this is a great video on your exact point......Get the popcorn, it's long....but pretty good.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=8

Now why couldn't Al Gore see that!? That ****in' moron follower!

cneary812 · 11-15-2007, 12:04 PM

man I wish I was half the idiot Al Gore is. Hmm lets see... vice president of the United States for 8 years, Senator before that... making boukou money now too. Everyone knows who he is. Sounds like he knows what he is doing to me...

What is so wrong with trying to help keep preserve our environment for ourselves and our future generations. My job is in Environmental Compliance and I deal with environmental issues all the time. I may not agree with all the environmental laws but they are there for a reason. We can't just destroy this planet its the only one we got...

E85 is only a pinky size bandaid on a bazooka wound for the manufacturers. Hydrogen fuel cells are the forseen future for all autos big and small. So if you have E85 and are able to use it and want to then use it... if not don't worry about it just use gas.

**HudsonValleyTitan** · 11-15-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cneary812

man I wish I was half the idiot Al Gore is. Hmm lets see... vice president of the United States for 8 years, Senator before that... making boukou money now too. Everyone knows who he is. Sounds like he knows what he is doing to me...

What is so wrong with trying to help keep preserve our environment for ourselves and our future generations. My job is in Environmental Compliance and I deal with environmental issues all the time. I may not agree with all the environmental laws but they are there for a reason. We can't just destroy this planet its the only one we got...

E85 is only a pinky size bandaid on a bazooka wound for the manufacturers. Hydrogen fuel cells are the forseen future for all autos big and small. So if you have E85 and are able to use it and want to then use it... if not don't worry about it just use gas.

I was refering to the movie he was involved in based on completely incorrect information. Click the link above and listen to the experts show FACTS, not some dull ex VP looking to make a buck.....yeah, I guess on the money making issue, he's no moron. On global warming facts, he's one helmet away from licking windows!

450xDaD · 11-15-2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HudsonValleyTitan

On global warming facts, he's one helmet away from licking windows!

MuskyHunter · 11-15-2007, 05:02 PM

Back to ethanol. The price of ethanol (E85) needs to be about 20% cheaper than gasoline to break even on mileage. I have extensively logged this myself and will spare readers of my previous rants about how ridiculous and short sighted this ethanol movement is. At $3.00 a gallon, E85 will need to be about $2.40 a gallon to break even. At $3.50, E85 will need to be around $2.80. Others will argue the supposed emissions reductions, but that is very debatable.

Most states are adopting development of the ethanol industry, mostly in the Midwest. Many Midwest states are in severe budget deficits, even after they spent their tobacco settlements on non tobacco related programs. they still are short. Ethanol to the Midwest is a huge tax opportunity, hence the welcome mat. Our governor for example was recently quoted that "ethanol is the future." That definition of the future doesn't look too far over the hill.

Our country is capable of achieving what is deemed the impossible. We have done it in the past when we put our minds and money into it. Putting money into a band aid solution that has minimal impact to our energy needs is wasting precious time and money that is needed to move to the next level....okay, so I ranted again, sorry.

**HudsonValleyTitan** · 11-15-2007, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuskyHunter

Back to ethanol. The price of ethanol (E85) needs to be about 20% cheaper than gasoline to break even on mileage. I have extensively logged this myself and will spare readers of my previous rants about how ridiculous and short sighted this ethanol movement is. At $3.00 a gallon, E85 will need to be about $2.40 a gallon to break even. At $3.50, E85 will need to be around $2.80. Others will argue the supposed emissions reductions, but that is very debatable.

Most states are adopting development of the ethanol industry, mostly in the Midwest. Many Midwest states are in severe budget deficits, even after they spent their tobacco settlements on non tobacco related programs. they still are short. Ethanol to the Midwest is a huge tax opportunity, hence the welcome mat. Our governor for example was recently quoted that "ethanol is the future." That definition of the future doesn't look too far over the hill.

Our country is capable of achieving what is deemed the impossible. We have done it in the past when we put our minds and money into it. Putting money into a band aid solution that has minimal impact to our energy needs is wasting precious time and money that is needed to move to the next level....okay, so I ranted again, sorry.

Amen. If global warming was the issue these dolts claim it is, why doesn't the government make all auto makers offer something like the Prius?! Toyota is the ONLY company here making a car like it. Wanna know why?...there's no money to be made! No corn, no ethanol...nothing! Yet the Prius gets better mileage and pollutes less than anything out there. What a bunch of hypocrates lawmakers are. It's all about the mighty buck!

450xDaD · 11-15-2007, 07:08 PM

I'll tell you what....I rented a suburban a couple weeks back and it had that new technology in which it swiched between 4 and 8 cylinders, depending on the power demand. It rode nice and I could not tell when it was running on 4 cylinders, other than the light on the dash.

The downside was that the fuel mileage was not that far off from my Titan. But, if they could find a way to make that technology more efficient, and increase that margin, that could be a great solution to better fuel economy. I just didn't understand the point, based on the marginal-better fuel economy.

**HudsonValleyTitan** · 11-15-2007, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450xDaD

I'll tell you what....I rented a suburban a couple weeks back and it had that new technology in which it swiched between 4 and 8 cylinders, depending on the power demand. It rode nice and I could not tell when it was running on 4 cylinders, other than the light on the dash.

The downside was that the fuel mileage was not that far off from my Titan. But, if they could find a way to make that technology more efficient, and increase that margin, that could be a great solution to better fuel economy. I just didn't understand the point, based on the marginal-better fuel economy.

That's the problem. None of those engines that shut off cylinders make much difference, if at all. Even the new "hybrid" from GM is a joke. These companies do it because on paper they look better than they are in reality, besides, they get huge tax breaks for offering them.

nissan72 · 11-15-2007, 08:58 PM

I'm with you. E85 is a joke. We got one station in MS anyway, it's at Stennis Space Center and not available to the public.
Sorry for the hijack but I got alot questions about fuel cell/hydrogen cars, sounds good for lower emissions, but can you guess what the names of the "hydrogen filling stations are going to be? I bet you'll recognize all of them when you finally see them. I bet all the engineers figured out to build these cars efficiently, their probably just stalling so all the refineries can build hydrogen plants?????

Sorry for the rant.....I'm just tired of all the hype with no real results or solutions for the consumer.

cneary812 · 11-16-2007, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450xDaD

I'll tell you what....I rented a suburban a couple weeks back and it had that new technology in which it swiched between 4 and 8 cylinders, depending on the power demand. It rode nice and I could not tell when it was running on 4 cylinders, other than the light on the dash.

The downside was that the fuel mileage was not that far off from my Titan. But, if they could find a way to make that technology more efficient, and increase that margin, that could be a great solution to better fuel economy. I just didn't understand the point, based on the marginal-better fuel economy.

im sorry but when you propel something with the size and weight of a suburban on 50% of its power it is going to use more gas to keep it moving than running it on 100%. Plain and simple

**HudsonValleyTitan** · 11-16-2007, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cneary812

im sorry but when you propel something with the size and weight of a suburban on 50% of its power it is going to use more gas to keep it moving than running it on 100%. Plain and simple

I agree. So why do they bother? Government kickbacks has to be the reason.

Jim Padget · 11-16-2007, 10:31 PM

Quote:

I was thinking that the cost for the oil companies to produce, and retrofit the existing infrastructure to accommodate ethanol…

Ethanol is not a band-aid, it is a flat out scam, a government funded rip-off boondoggle. Ethanol sucks up water, you can’t stop it. Just look at the ingredients on a bottle of Heet gas line anti-freeze. Sucking up water is what ethanol does best. Everything comes to you through a pipeline; the tank truck just brings it the last 50 miles or so. Ethanol can’t go through a pipeline at all, because the water that it carries along with it will cut the 30-year life span of a pipeline in half, plus it doubles the maintenance. This is why they are talking about building ethanol plants every 500 miles. The existing infrastructure cannot be retrofitted. If you factor in the fuel that it takes to produce the corn, (not to mention much of the fertilizer and insecticide comes from? That’s right, petroleum) then get the corn (or what ever) to the ethanol plant, then truck the ethanol all the way to your local Quick Trip. It takes well over 3 gallons of petroleum to get one gallon of ethanol into your tank. Capturing cow farts would make more sense.