New Ethanol Study

zapak · 12-08-2007, 10:59 PM

I am not sure if this has been posted on the site yet. But with a lot of Titans being flex fuel it is interesting.
http://www.trucktrend.com/features/n...uel/index.html

70DATSUN · 12-09-2007, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zapak

I am not sure if this has been posted on the site yet. But with a lot of Titans being flex fuel it is interesting.
http://www.trucktrend.com/features/n...uel/index.html

I just got my copy of TT in the mail today, well have to check it out. They are getting ready too build an ethanol plant about two miles from my shop, so when it's in place maybe we'll have some reasonable priced (can always dream) e85 fuel around here.

todd92 · 12-09-2007, 06:35 AM

The source of this 'study' is an ethanol lobby group. Read it carefully, they aren't saying E20 and E30 get better MPG than gasoline. They are saying that E20 and E30 don't drop the mileage as much as expected based on the ethanol content. The resulting claims of improvement are meaningless.

BullGatorTitan · 12-09-2007, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todd92

The source of this 'study' is an ethanol lobby group. Read it carefully, they aren't saying E20 and E30 get better MPG than gasoline. They are saying that E20 and E30 don't drop the mileage as much as expected based on the ethanol content. The resulting claims of improvement are meaningless.

Then what does this mean?

Quote:

--E30 offered better fuel economy than gasoline (a 1% increase) in both the Toyota and the Ford.
--E20 offered better fuel economy than gasoline (a 15% increase) in the flex-fuel Chevrolet.

todd92 · 12-09-2007, 09:46 AM

It was written to mislead. Read it carefully, 1% better than the lower MPG predicited by the ethanol content. 15% better than the lower MPG predicted by the ethanol content. You have to read the whole thing carefully to understand. Ethanol is all about deception, it's a goverment subsidized scam.

Seranin · 12-09-2007, 10:19 AM

Though they do say that the blends gave better economy than the BTU rating would suggest in the beginning, below where they describe the improvements, they specifically say BETTER THAN GASOLINE. Also, the first part of the following sentence does not change the second part, which is quite clear.

"Contrary to Btu-based estimates of fuel economy for ethanol blends, three of the four vehicles tested achieved their highest fuel efficiency not on gasoline, but on an ethanol blend."

Though I do happen to agree with you regarding current ethanol production in the US being a scam, and wasteful when produced via corn (read two months' past issue of national geographic), this article is either dead wrong, lying or there truly are minimal gains with a higher blend of ethanol over straight gas. That in itself doesn't justify the energy wasted to produce the ethanol, but hopefully efficiencies will improve, and almost anything that starts to remove our dependancy on OPEC oil is a good thing!

Quote:

Originally Posted by todd92

It was written to mislead. Read it carefully, 1% better than the lower MPG predicited by the ethanol content. 15% better than the lower MPG predicted by the ethanol content. You have to read the whole thing carefully to understand. Ethanol is all about deception, it's a goverment subsidized scam.

Rick Guess · 12-09-2007, 11:01 AM

bottom line is, it is putting money in Americans hands, more than buying pure gasoline.

so you gotta decide what is more important
putting (some) money back into the country
or tossing ALL of the money into some Habib, Jafar, or Abdul's hands

todd92 · 12-09-2007, 12:37 PM

I can promise you that E30 cannot, will not under any conditions, get better MPG than pure gasoline. Again, it was written in a very misleading fashion.

As for putting more money in American hands, perhaps you should read up a little on the real economics of ethanol before you make statements like that. It also takes money out of American hands though higher food prices. It takes money out of American hands through higher diesel prices, since more diesel is used to grow/harvest/transport the corn and ethanol. It takes tax revenue away from the government, since the ethanol industry must be heavily subsidized to survive. This increases the budget deficeit, which again, takes money out of American hands.

uaintmw · 12-09-2007, 01:00 PM

I'm not privy to the economies of scale for ethonol, But, if the US were not so dependant on foreign oil, we probably wouldn't be spending billions on a war in the middle east.

Factor tha into the price of gasoline and I'm sure ethanol would start looking quite appealing

daptech · 12-09-2007, 02:10 PM

Well, here is a quote from the actual test rather than
Truck Trend's comments.
-
The three vehicles averaged 1.5% lower mileage with E10, 2.2% lower mileage with E20, 5.1% lower mileage with E30.
Just as expected....more ethanol, less fuel mileage.
The heading of the article is misleading. The only ethanol
blend that consistently gave better fuel mileage was
a special blend formulated for the test.
(E10AK) Unleaded with 10% ethanol denatured with iso-pentane and bio-diesel

*UDMTITAN* · 12-09-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Guess

bottom line is, it is putting money in Americans hands, more than buying pure gasoline.

so you gotta decide what is more important
putting (some) money back into the country
or tossing ALL of the money into some Habib, Jafar, or Abdul's hands

Where do you think we would start buying corn from if ethanol can ever be proven to be that reliable. We always buy from the cheapest places and that most likely would not be the U.S. My family is in the oil business, not a large oil company, but we do have a few wells. You ever think how many people over hear still make their living from American crude.

MuskyHunter · 12-09-2007, 04:46 PM

I log poorer mileage with E10. I don't see how E30 is going to be better. The numbers don't stack up. This looks like smoke and mirrors.

Buildwonder · 12-09-2007, 05:22 PM

Enough of the ethanol crap already! It's already proven not to be the answer for efficiency or to counter dependence on foreign oil supplies. Spend future research monies on gas/electric hybrid and eventually electric. Hydrogen fuel cells? NO! Hydrogen fuel production also uses fossil fuels so it's a wash. Hybrid technology is without a doubt at least worth a serious look. Not just manufacturing a few models from a few automakers. Ever notice which models are offered as hybrids? Just that particular automakers bread and butter is all. Right now it's all about marketing; nothing more, nothing less. Put forth some real effort and the outcome could surprise many! -My 2 cents

HemiETR · 12-09-2007, 07:54 PM

The US gets way more money than you think. If there wasn't oil over there we would never be there! US is only there for our benefit. If there was nothing to benefit from, we wouldn't have gone in the early 90's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Guess

bottom line is, it is putting money in Americans hands, more than buying pure gasoline.

so you gotta decide what is more important
putting (some) money back into the country
or tossing ALL of the money into some Habib, Jafar, or Abdul's hands

bigsal51 · 12-09-2007, 09:44 PM

I coulndt open it.