Ghosn hints at killing Nissan Titan

[2007 TITAN LE]

Just realized the new Rogue only outsold the Titan by 649 units in Nov. The Rogue is heavily advertised and brand new. Sales should only drop after the newness wears off. Just imagine if they advertised the mighty Titan like that. the only way Nissan will sway any domestic loyal buyers is with heavy, heavy advertising like the Tundra and stating that it is made in the good ol USA. The only reason the Tundra is a success in my opinion is because of the cool commercials. I even like to see the Tundra commercials. They have a redneck sounding guy with redneck music showing how " bigger, faster, stronger, tougher and superior" the Tundra is to the domestics. That appeals to the rednecks in the boonies who brag about what their trucks can do. The one with the dad and kid in a Tundra looking at a house and the dad saying "I built that" (the house). Then it goes to the dad and kid outside the house with the dad saying "I built that" (the Tundra). That speaks to the people who feel bad buying a foreign vehicle. Nissan needs to start paying attention to the obvious. It may cost $ to advertise, but it takes advertising to get into a new game and be profitable. Nobody can buy the best truck if they do not know it exists.

[MuskyHunter]

Originally Posted by BigA

I agree, but the Titan is Nissan fifth best selling vehicle out of the 13 models they offer, so while the Titan has sold much less then the competition, compared to other Nissan models its not to bad. Where Nissan is losing the money right know I'm guessing is in the huge 5K rebates.

And... Nissan is not nearly spending the advertising dollars needed to get more market share. With Toyota slated to spend over $100 million for promoting the Tundra, $290 million for advertising the Chevy Silverado, and about $100 million for the GMC Sierra. Going back to Toyota, hitting a 200,000 sales target, that comes to about $500.00/truck for advertising.

The 2008 Titan was an opportunity to address previous issues. Paying attention to complaints of interior quality, breaks, and payload capacity, they have not fully addressed drivetrain durability to current owners.

If Nissan does decide to bag the Titan from it's line up, it will be a sad day. They have a great truck that still needs a few tweaks yet. For 2010, they need to relaunch the truck aggressively if they want the market share.

Thank goodness for the resignation of their marketing VP, Jan Thompson later this year. Too much money was wasted on Titan image ads that did nothing to really drill into the memory of consumers of the features/benefits of the Titan, and the value of the Titan against competitors. Those ads were all quick glances creating a curiosity of the truck, but those quick glances did not leave a lasting image in the mind of the consumer.

The front grill of the Dodge Ram during its first launch was the image that everyone remembered and part of it's success, a semi-truck kind of look, and a focus point of all its ads. Shoot, I still remember the Ford "Twin I-Beam suspension ads." I can't say I can remember a Titan ad. Maybe that is why Nissan is seeing the Titan sales numbers as they are today and why consumers don't think about giving consideration to one, because they forgot about it.

[ttg]

hey guys, I have read a few threads on here mentioning that nissan might be doing away with the titan. I have not heard/read this. I was just wondering what the scoop is on this. Thanks

[2007 TITAN LE]

No anouncements at all, just speculation. I doubt it myself that Nissan will cut the Titan before the next generation. I think they will give it at least one more try, especially with the possible collaberation with Dodge.

[whiteLE]

As much I have ripped on the rig for its rear end, I still love the damn thing. It is still the best value proposition out there.

Nissan needs to take it's head out and speak to the Titan's strengths. Even in its third year (2006), the Titan was the best overall value in terms of power and room relative to its size (not a boat) and price. The only thing that was close was the Vortec Max and the Titan's chassis is far more versatile and the 5.6 has proven at least as strong and in many cases stronger than the 6.0. The Titan was slightly lower priced than a GMC SLT with a 5.3, not to mention a 6.0! According to one of the boating publications, the Titan outpulls the Tundra to 60!

GM got smart and finally started marketing their strength--gas mileage with the 5.3. Nissan needs to do the same. Get some people at the dealers that will acknowledge the Titan's past weaknesses and what Nissan has done to correct them as well as their current strengths (get rid of the slimely urban types and have a Titan expert like Toyota has). I still do not think you can fine a vehicle this strong (engine), this sharp (looks), and versatile (big cab, handy box, strong puller/tower, easy to handle in urban areas (short nose), with leather for $30K + TTL.

At a minimum, we should email Nissan as current Titan owners speaking to strengths of the Titan.

white

[niceun]

Originally Posted by HudsonValleyTitan

Remember how well the Quest/Villager venture went?

Yep. Basically, it was Ford-built with a Nissan drivetrain. I think it lasted about 5-6 years. Then, FMC debuted the Windstar and NMC debuted the new '04 Quest. I wonder how many were sold per year as a joint venture? And how many units of any vehicle really need to be sold to justify it? Of course, limited or low-number vehicles are different. I agree with another post here. Infiniti numbers are way under Nissan's, yet you don't see an M35 or G35 with Ford Five Hundred underpinnings.

[niceun]

Doesn't look like it will be the first collaboration after all...

THE 1977 DODGE TITAN.....

[HudsonValleyTitan]

Originally Posted by niceun

Yep. Basically, it was Ford-built with a Nissan drivetrain. I think it lasted about 5-6 years. Then, FMC debuted the Windstar and NMC debuted the new '04 Quest. I wonder how many were sold per year as a joint venture? And how many units of any vehicle really need to be sold to justify it? Of course, limited or low-number vehicles are different. I agree with another post here. Infiniti numbers are way under Nissan's, yet you don't see an M35 or G35 with Ford Five Hundred underpinnings.

No idea what the sales numbers were on the Quest/Villager back then. Ford built, but Nissan designed I should add.

Lest anyone forget this very lethal fact.....The big 3s trucks are sold worldwide. Titans are built for, designed for, and sold ONLY in North America. That has to also account for a lot. That alone tells me that Nissans selling 65k units a year isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

[niceun]

Originally Posted by HudsonValleyTitan

That alone tells me that Nissans selling 65k units a year isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

I agree 100%. But what gives Ghosn the idea that a collaborated product will sell more units? I just don't think most people would buy the product if you tell them 'It's designed by Nissan with a Dodge Ram drivetrain' or vice versa.
Take the product you have now, tweak it, and advertise the heck out of it's potential. Don't leave it up to the curiosities of consumers to cross the line from another brand and check your product out, hoping to sell it. Flaunt it!!

[daptech]

Originally Posted by ttg

hey guys, I have read a few threads on here mentioning that nissan might be doing away with the titan. I have not heard/read this. I was just wondering what the scoop is on this. Thanks

It comes from an interview Newsweek did with Ghosn.
.....comes from this paragraph:
"Which in this case is in a cold conference room, full of skeptical analysts. Ghosn stresses Nissan's recent success with small cars, and hints he may kill the slow-selling Titan pickup (though Nissan officials say there are no such plans yet). "The name of the game is going to be more fuel-efficient cars," he says. "And when you make your product plans for the future, you can't say, 'I've always had a pickup truck, so I'll just keep improving it.' If you can't make it profitably, you have to get out." Afterward, analyst Steve Usher of Japaninvest switches his neutral rating on Nissan to a buy. "He's back," says Usher. "But it's not the return of the conquering hero. He's got to deliver again."
http://www.newsweek.com/id/78147/page/1

[eightballsidepocket]

Tell me this isn't happening!!!! Just read this tonight (Sunday 12-16-07 on Autoblog.com .

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/16/g...-nissan-titan/

http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/news...slertitan.html

No one doubts that selling full-size trucks in the U.S. is a tough racket. Nissan knows this firsthand, as it's sold only 60,961 units of its Titan pickup so far in 2007. Compare that to the third best-selling truck in the U.S., the Dodge Ram, which has sold 326,177 units, or the new-for-2007 Toyota Tundra, which has sold 177,336 units.

In a Newsweek article profiling Carlos Ghosn, the CEO of Nissan-Renault reportedly hinted that he may kill the Titan pickup. The fact is, it's becoming less and less profitable to compete in a full-size truck segment that's shrinking and becoming more competitive by the day. While Ghosn is far from hammering the last nail in the Titan's coffin, his reported comment simply highlights the fact that a smart company will build what it can sell for a profit.

Producing a pickup profitably is clearly on Ghosn's mind, and considering last Friday's rumor that Nissan is in talks with Chrysler on a possible collaboration, a Dodge Ram-based Titan that's cheaper to produce than the current truck is definitely a possibility going forward. Either that, or there won't be a Titan at all if Ghosn can't figure out how to make a buck off it.

Here's the Pickup.com article from Newsweek:

Update #1: 12-15-07 21:24 PT

Newsweek is reporting that Nissan's CEO, Carlos Ghosn, recently hinted at killing the Titan because of slowing sales.

From the Newsweek story:

"Ghosn stresses Nissan's recent success with small cars, and hints he may kill the slow-selling Titan pickup (though Nissan officials say there are no such plans yet). "The name of the game is going to be more fuel-efficient cars," he says. "And when you make your product plans for the future, you can't say, 'I've always had a pickup truck, so I'll just keep improving it.' If you can't make it profitably, you have to get out.""

End Newsweek excerpt.

Connecting Ghosn's statements, above, with recent news, below, about an alliance with Chrysler, and it looks like the odds may have increased for the next Titan to be tied in some manner to the new Dodge Ram.

60,961 Titans have sold year-to-date, through November. That number may not be economically worth a dedicated production line at Canton, Mississippi, where the Titan is built (along with the Armada and Infiniti QX56 full size SUVs), but it's still large enough to consider keeping the truck alive if economies of scale can be leveraged elsewhere to reduce development and manufacturing costs. Cerberus Chrysler is sure to want to squeeze every unit of production it can out of its truck plants, by all avenues possible, to recoup its costs and build profits.

Now, if we carry this line of speculation out further, the real loser here could be Navistar - Nissan's long rumored partner for a diesel V8 for the Titan.

Navistar's current feud with Ford likely means we'll never see another Navistar produced Power Stroke engine again after the current 6.4-liter V8. Nissan could have picked up some of the slack from the end of that relationship. But if Nissan were to tie-up with Chrysler, it's likely that many, if not all, of the same engines used in the Ram would also power the Titan. That means a future Titan could receive a Cummins-sourced diesel motor, like the upcoming light duty Cummins V8 diesel expected for the Ram.

Whether the Titan is killed by Mr. Ghosn or there's an agreement between Chrysler and Nissan, it sounds like bad news for Navistar diesel fans.


Bloomberg and the Detroit Free Press are reporting that Chrysler LLC and Nissan Motor Company are in discussions to share each other's expertise building small cars and sedans (Nissan's specialty) and pickup trucks (Chrysler's specialty). An agreement between the two auto manufacturers could lead to the exchanging of vehicles and engines with each other.

For over a year it's been reported that Nissan's CEO Carlos Ghosn has been interested in a tie-up with a U.S. vehicle manufacturer, to split supplier and production costs. Last year Mr. Ghosn held resource sharing discussions with General Motors that didn't pan out.

Nissan introduced the Titan in 2004. It's the only U.S. full size truck with fewer than 100,000 sales a year. Titan sales are about about one-third the volume of its next-biggest rival, Toyota's Tundra.

The Dodge Ram is ranked third in sales, behind Ford's F-Series and GM's Chevrolet Silverado. An all new 2009 Dodge Ram will debut next month at the North American International Auto Show and is expected to go on sale in late 2008.

By the end of 2008, the Nissan Titan will be the oldest full size truck in the segment, with all other models having undergone major revisions or received all new designs. A new Titan is expected for the 2010 model year.

Leveraging production economies of scale, similar to Nissan's agreement with Suzuki to produce the upcoming Equator midsize pickup, leads to speculation that the next Titan could be based on the all new Ram.

[eightballsidepocket]

Think on the bright side.

A 3/4-1 ton Titan with a big nasty old 6.7 Cummins diesel with 350 H.P. and 675 Ft./lbs. of torque would put the "slammer" on the Tundra.

Right now, Toyota's big chance is with a Hino Diesel, and there isn't much talk about going into that realm yet.

Nissan could get a big jump in model variety for the American P.U. buyer.

That Cummins 6.7 is the only big 3 diesel that's met the 2010 CAFE standards!

Also Dodge now has that new silky smooth 68RFE 6 speed automatic with standard Jake Brake on all their Automatic tranny Cummins trucks. They are also offering the 6 Speed Aisin Automatic with PTO on their Cab Chassis 1 ton 3500 Cummins trucks.

Those two trannys are equal to GM's Allison in every way.

Dodge is also just starting to offer the 4500 and 5500 Cab chassis models with the Cummins power plant.
******
For those that say Ford has'em beat with an F-150 smaller diesel, Dodge's 1500 Ram will have for 09, a Small V8 Cummins to for their 1/2 ton. That's confirmed! GM is likewise getting ready to offer a 1/2 ton medium sized diesel too.

Mecedes still has a very minor ownership in Chrysler, and their Bluetec diesel technology that's the most advanced emissions, or clean exhaust technology is rumored to be used on future Dodge diesel applications.

Right now, Bluetec stands the best chance of meeting California's clean diesel standards, and what will inevitably become the remaining states requirements shortly after.
******
Joining or sharing technology with Chrysler and sharing platforms could be of great mutual benefit for both Nissan and Chrysler. This can give Nissan a great advantage or foothold in the 3/4-1 ton P.U. market, and even a chance to jump into the commercial cab chassis market.
*****

[hooligan]

i'm sure this has been posted elsewhere but even Nissan has pulled out of all Nissan Motorsports in North America. which means NO MORE CORR RACING Titan, which Carl Renezeder dominated CORR with in the PRO2 circuit with his P2 2wd Titan. now that Nissan is no longer in the mix, Renezeder must revert back to his old brand he raced with... a chevy silverado. THANKS A WHOLE LOT NISSAN! YOU F***ING A**HOLES!!!!!!!!!!

[The Pawnbroker]

I think a big problem has been advertising. You can't turn on the TV without seeing a Tundra commercial. I have been an auto/truck fan my whole life. I have to admit, I didn't even realize that Nissan made a full size truck until very recently. They just weren't even on my radar. The only reason at all that I am driving one today is that I drove an Altima for a few days. That is a great car. At the same time, I was looking for a pickup truck so I went to look at the Nissans because of the Altima. It has nothing to do with advertising at all. I simply wasn't aware of what Nissan had to offer. I have been driving cars and mostly trucks for over thirty years now. My Titan is such a great truck that I am more excited about it than anything I have owned in many years. I hope they keep making it and I certainly hope that they don't do anything with Chrysler. How about matching at least 1/2 of the Tundra TV ads for a year or so and see what happens??

[Riverratt]

I don't think you would "hint" at something like this if it wasn't already in the plans. Otherwise, what would be the point? Like first impressions, reputations are hard to overcome. I agree that the Titan could use more advertising, but probably too late to make a difference. All it really takes is a test drive to appreciate the truck.