E85 and Ethanol

[cohee3]

After reading a few threads, I decided to research myself. I normally use Exxon because of the UPromise deal and all of the pumps in my area have a sticker on them that says, "contains ethanol". My 2004 Titan does not have an E85 sticker, so...
According to this web site http://www.e85fuel.com/information/vin.php , 2005 and greater Titans are E85 compatible only if they have a 'B' in the fourth character of the VIN. No 2004's are.
Here is a map of the areas of the country where the federal government requires oxygenated, reformulated or ethanol added to the gasoline. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/GFM...soline_Map.pdf
If the gasoline contains ethanol, that alone does not mean it is E85. I think that all regular gas vehicles should be able to use regular gasoline, even if it contains ethanol (i.e. reformulated, oxygenated, or California fruity gas) - but not necessarily E85.
E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.

[anmut]

Where you going with this?

E10 is the mixture in most gas right now.

E85 is 85% evil ethanol and will run in so-called "FlexFuel" vehicles.

ANY gas that contains ethanol will rob you of power and mpg's. E85 and it's lower price right now is a complete scam. The price of E85 has to be ~ $1 less a gallon to even compete with standard E10 because of what you lose in mpg's.

[Carbeaux]

The difference in E85 as compared to straight gas is about 28% in it's energy density. As long as the E85 is more than 28% less than straight gas, you should break even or better.

[anmut]

I'll let someone else be the test of that...

28% of 3.10/gallon = 86.8c, so E85 has to be around $2.24 to break even with just the efficiency of regular. Around here E85 is at 2.65.

The power loss itself is enough to turn me away. Also - who knows really what the long term effect of running that junk could be? I'll be if there is something bad happening to your engine running E85 that it'll show AFTER your warranty is up.

[BigA]

From what I've heard you lose MPG, but you gain a slight power advanatage using E85 because it has a much higher octane rating.

[Carbeaux]

We can't even find the stuff much down here. I think there are a couple of stations that sell it, but I'm not going out of my way to buy it. I'm not sure I would even if it were convenient. I don't even think that down here we run 10%.

[joeinstl]

I live in the Midwest, you know - that large part of the country where they grow corn? I have yet to see an E85 pump. I will not be putting that crap in my Titan unless it's way lower than regular gas.

[1bigredtitan]

Originally Posted by cohee3

After reading a few threads, I decided to research myself. I normally use Exxon because of the UPromise deal and all of the pumps in my area have a sticker on them that says, "contains ethanol". My 2004 Titan does not have an E85 sticker, so...
According to this web site http://www.e85fuel.com/information/vin.php , 2005 and greater Titans are E85 compatible only if they have a 'B' in the fourth character of the VIN. No 2004's are.
Here is a map of the areas of the country where the federal government requires oxygenated, reformulated or ethanol added to the gasoline. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/GFM...soline_Map.pdf
If the gasoline contains ethanol, that alone does not mean it is E85. I think that all regular gas vehicles should be able to use regular gasoline, even if it contains ethanol (i.e. reformulated, oxygenated, or California fruity gas) - but not necessarily E85.
E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.

Hey cohee, I'm in your neck of the woods. Looking at the map I noticed that Jefferson and Shelby counties required 7.0 RVP in their gasoline mix. So what does that mean? Would I be better off trying to purchase gas in another county that didn't have this requirement? Anybody?

EDIT: After some hunting around I found that RVP stands for Reid Vapor Pressure, and the more ethanol added to the fuel mix, the higher the RVP. The Birmingham area of Alabama has a requirement of 7.0 RVP for the summer mix, and all other counties in the state requires 9.0 RVP. So sounds like I'm better off buying in my area since the RVP level is lower, and thus, less ethanol. Apparently the requirement is because of ozone related concerns in the Bham metro area. I guess a blend with more conventional gas is better for the environment?

More info in the link below. The 'Background' section towards the bottom of the page has some helpful information.
http://www.npradc.org/issues/fuels/boutique.cfm

[ten~39]

Originally Posted by joeinstl

I live in the Midwest, you know - that large part of the country where they grow corn? I have yet to see an E85 pump. I will not be putting that crap in my Titan unless it's way lower than regular gas.

You might be using fuel with some degree of ethanol right now and not know it.

The first post by anmut, in the other main ethanol thread right now, has a link to a site which has a pdf that has all kinds of nifty pertainant ethanol info in it. Suffice to say, there are many states right now that have zero requirements calling out the use of an ethanol mixture in your gas, in the form of a sticker above the pump. I know for a fact that ALL regular in at least IA and NE right now is E10 due to ethanol subsidies by those states, but it's also stickered to tell you.

The amount of subsidies happening right now here in the midwest, at both a federal and state level, is huge. So if you live in a plains state that doesn't require a sticker at the pump, there's probably a pretty good chance you've ran E10 at some point in the past and just not realized.

[07cajuntitan]

It looks like the parish (county) I live in only sells 7.8 RVP. All of the parishes around me sell conventional. I wonder if I should start going outside of the parish to fill up?

[anmut]

Originally Posted by BigA

From what I've heard you lose MPG, but you gain a slight power advanatage using E85 because it has a much higher octane rating.

WAY LESS power than regular gas...

[joeinstl]

Originally Posted by ten~39

You might be using fuel with some degree of ethanol right now and not know it.

The first post by anmut, in the other main ethanol thread right now, has a link to a site which has a pdf that has all kinds of nifty pertainant ethanol info in it. Suffice to say, there are many states right now that have zero requirements calling out the use of an ethanol mixture in your gas, in the form of a sticker above the pump. I know for a fact that ALL regular in at least IA and NE right now is E10 due to ethanol subsidies by those states, but it's also stickered to tell you.

The amount of subsidies happening right now here in the midwest, at both a federal and state level, is huge. So if you live in a plains state that doesn't require a sticker at the pump, there's probably a pretty good chance you've ran E10 at some point in the past and just not realized.

I realize that most stations are using an E10 blend. I was referring to E85.

[ten~39]

Originally Posted by joeinstl

I realize that most stations are using an E10 blend. I was referring to E85.

I see that now.

Sorry, speedy forum reading and work duties sometime don't mix well.

[1bigredtitan]

Originally Posted by 07cajuntitan

It looks like the parish (county) I live in only sells 7.8 RVP. All of the parishes around me sell conventional. I wonder if I should start going outside of the parish to fill up?

I'm not sure. I found another article that seems to contradict what the map says. Its a county by county breakdown on RVP levels for all states. This is where I was basing the 9.0 RVP level for all other counties in my state (see my earlier post). Article below:

http://www.epa.gov/OMS/regs/fuels/420b07007.pdf

[TI'TNTUFF]

Originally Posted by ten~39

I see that now.

Sorry, speedy forum reading and work duties sometime don't mix well.

That's why work must wait till I'm finished reading!