Window Tint specs - Page 2

Cienfuegos · 03-18-2004, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrumaner

I would love to be waiting outside the courthouse when you did that. Seeing the tinting that you swore you removed in a court of law still on your vehicle would get you hauled right back into the courthouse on a perjury charge and a possible stay in the greybar hotel along with a hefty fine. Your friend had better be a good one too, because they will be charged along with you for fraud.

If I pull over a vehicle with tinted windows, the first thing I do is call for backup, and then the driver and all passengers are made to get out and lay down on the ground with their hands behind their heads. I don't take chances anymore. If I cannot see into your vehicle, you are going to be looking down the barrel of more than a few police issued weapons.

Next time, don't be so stupid as to make statements like that on a public forum. A number of us here are members of various law enforcement agencies.

Sorry if you don't like my tone. I just hate kids who claim they flaunt the law and feel they can get away with anything they want.

Hey Relax, first of all my family is well affilated with law SWAT Commanders Chiefs and everything in between so lets not get all high and mighty.

I didn't drive my car to the courthouse because that would be stupid.

But that was back in the day when it was cool to have the darkest tints so it was almost night even durring the day inside the car. (What was I thinking!) I was in High School a punk *** kid.

Now I am a little less inclined to get tints that dark I will probably just get regulation tints or as close to the rear windows as I can get.

So relax have fun on the board you don't need to police on the internet also.

**CaliforniaTitan** · 03-18-2004, 12:18 PM

I see where RR and Cienfuego are both coming from...'Friendly Debate' is good :-)

There are many instances constantly in the news especially with regard of a family sueing a police dept etc for wrongful death and even sometimes winning even when dark tinted windows were a factor.

While someone may beat the system once...in the long run things will catch up to you. Hopefully for your sake its not in the form of a situational shooting vice a ticket...

Cien....I too did the same thing in my 'younger years' and yes it was even in the state of FL. I seriously think back now (Not just this, but other silly things I did) and say to myself...wow, I am still vertical....

Chris

Cienfuegos · 03-18-2004, 12:29 PM

I wonder too how I made it to present day

while I am still very young I look back and wonder WHAT WAS I THINKING?!?!?!?!

I have been to one too many funerals for friends, one too many letters to rehab clinics to friends and right now my little cousin is in high school and that scares the crap out of me.

pistonpete · 03-19-2004, 11:47 PM

Wow! I understand that risks are present concerning traffic stops, especially when the officer cannot see what the people inside a vehicle are doing.

However, at the risk of being argumentative, the display of arrogance shown by rrumaner is the typical elitist attitude that has people view law enforcement officers as nothing more than neanderthals who feel it is their right to demonstrate their authority, especially when it is completely unnecessary.

I am grateful that there are people out there protecting us and our rights as law abiding citizens. I am also proud to say I have several friends that do this noble and necessary job function. I have however, grown weary of those in uniform who frequently forget that it is us the taxpayers who provide them with their salaries and disregard the fact that people deserve to be treated with respect.

I guess the bottom line is that just as rrumaner took offense to Cienfuegos' post, his post was a reminder to myself of past experiences I had when I was being completely cooperative but was led to feel subhuman.

bestatchess · 03-20-2004, 07:10 AM

"I would love to be waiting outside the courthouse when you did that. Seeing the tinting that you swore you removed in a court of law still on your vehicle would get you hauled right back into the courthouse on a perjury charge and a possible stay in the greybar hotel along with a hefty fine. Your friend had better be a good one too, because they will be charged along with you for fraud."

I am a trial attorney and I have seen literally hundreds of witnesses caught lying on the stand, but I have never, ever seen a judge do anything about it. Once, I was present with a couple of other witnesses, when another attorney busted two cops fabricating testimony in public, in loud voices in the hallway outside of the court room.

Shortly thereafter the cops were caught on the stand given sworn, perjured and collusively fabricated testimony. The case was dismissed against the defendant, but nothing happened to the cops. And not to pick on just cops, there are zillions of criminal defendants caught clearly lying on a daily basis. Sometimes a judge will look over the tops of his glasses and raise his eybrows, but that's about it.

The only perjury case that I have ever even heard of leading to a criminal conviction involved a false alibi witness in a multiple homicide case.

keane · 03-20-2004, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bestatchess

I am a trial attorney and I have seen literally hundreds of witnesses caught lying on the stand, but I have never, ever seen a judge do anything about it...

Where have you been practicing?? Remember Martha Stewart??? She didn't even make it into court but she is probably going to jail just for lying to investigators! If your criminal sytem in the state you are from lets people get away with this, they are Mor--s. The law has to be respected and feared or chaos starts to exist!

In my local paper just last week, a 23 year old was sent to jail for 6 months (a 1st offense) for changing his story on the witness stand from what he told investigators. He was a witness to an assault and even though they figured he was being threatened and that is why he changed his story, the judge was very adamant about lying under oath as being a VERY serious crime! You go tell that 23 year old that lying under oath (and for that matter Martha!) isn't serious.

bestatchess · 03-20-2004, 08:33 AM

"Where have you been practicing??"

All over the place, mostly in federal courts, including California, Ohio, Colorado, New Jersey, Mississippi, Nevada, Florida, New York, Illinois, Washington D.C.

"Remember Martha Stewart???"

Yes, heard way too much about her.

"She didn't even make it into court"

Funny, I thought she was tried and convicted. I guess you can't believe everything you hear on TV.

"but she is probably going to jail just for lying to investigators!"

Lying to investigators is not perjury. Perjury is giving false testimony under oath. Prosecutors often throw these type of "false information" charges into the mix to increase their bargaining power. I have never seen a case where a "false information" type of charge is the sole charge (The main charge against Martha was securities fraud, which the judge dismissed during the trial). Martha Stewart is going to jail (unless the judge makes a radical downward departure from the recommended sentence under the federal sentencing guidelines or she prevails on appeal or gets pardoned or dies or successfully flees to another country) because she violated the number one rule for any criminal defendant or potential defendant "Don't talk to the cops." What makes her case remarkable is that she made this common mistake despite having well qualified lawyers defending her from the outset.

The case you relate reported in your newspaper is the exception that proves the rule. If perjury convictions were common, they wouldn't make the newspaper. Judges are so used to seeing and hearing people caught lying on the witness stand that they become numb. Unfortunate, but true.

When I first started trying cases, I used to be very upset when I caught somebody lying their *** off, or falsifying documents, and I wasted alot of time trying to get people prosecuted (now I focus solely on just winning the case by demonstrating the lies to the jury). But it never happened. The closest I came was in a federal court case , where I caught the opposing side and a witness in a little scheme in which the witness was selling evidentiary documents to the other side, instead of producing them in discovery. I pursued them relentlessly for several months, with subpoenas to banks, phone companies, etc., and finally their own complicit lawyer partially cracked and ratted them out (trying to CYA) on the witness stand in front of a federal judge. The big result? They were ordered to pay about $15,000 in attorneys' fees, and then they finally produced the missing documents under the judge's threat of produce them or go to jail for contempt. (As I remember, the judge was going through a divorce at the time and was pretty cranky in general. He displayed about the same level of severity concerning the fact that my hearing exhibits that were not numbered precisely in accordance with local court rules) Interestingly, their lawyer was later disbarred for forging a state court judge's signature on a judgment and attempting to use that forged judgment to get money from an insurance company. He was not criminally prosecuted (although an attorney from the prosecutor's office somehow found out about his shenanigans in my case, and I sent him a detailed ten page letter and a couple of boxes of documents and transcripts in response to his inquiry), but was rather fined the staggering sum of $200 and now works as a consultant to insurance companies, helping them to avoid being defrauded!

And of course it has not always been just the opposing side that has been caught clearly lying on the witnesses stand. I have had a few staggering surprises when the other side produces documents at a TRO hearing (that's about the only time, in view of discovery rules, that you actually get to do the surprise Perry Mason kind of stuff) that clearly and convincingly demonstrate that my client has just knowingingly and willfully lied under oath on the witness stand. The first time this happened, I almost fainted, expecting the judge to order the bailiff to take my client into custody or something. But that has never happened. Of course the judge rules against the client on the merits, but based upon the true facts of the case, that was what should have happened anyway.

In conclusion, based upon my experience, and discussions with many other attorneys, my conviction remains that perjury is rarely prosecuted.

keane · 03-20-2004, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bestatchess

In conclusion, based upon my experience, and discussions with many other attorneys, my conviction remains that perjury is rarely prosecuted.

All cases about everything in my city get in the paper. I live in a small city in Canada This isn't the first case of perjury - it was the latest that i used as an example. Everything you say, i won't argue with; but I DO THINK it is a shame! I also hope you are not proud of the way the courts and it's participants handle themselves. They are willing to prosecute Martha because she lies to investigators (even though there was another charge) but they don't want to prosecute people who lie in court?

it's a shame that Lawyer's run both our countries!!! Don't take offense please, there are good lawyers out there. Too many of them, though, become judges and politicians!

Cienfuegos · 03-20-2004, 12:22 PM

Whoa Whoa Whoa what happened to the tint discussion......

newenglandtitan · 03-20-2004, 01:09 PM

http://www.atlanticshoreline.com/State_Laws.htm

Not for me in good 'ol NH

kmonto · 03-20-2004, 02:07 PM

I had 20% put on in Arkansas. However, state law states 35%. I wanted it to match and 20% does...

*tortuga* · 03-20-2004, 02:13 PM

i've had cops pull me over just for tint, and they issued me a "fix it ticket". i'd go to my friend who does tinting, have him remove it, go to the police/sheriff station and have them look at my vehicle and they sign the ticket attesting that yes indeed the tint has been removed. then i go back to my friends and have him put the tint back on. voila!!! and since then i have been pulled over zero times for tint, but once for mistaken vehicle identity and in that case i just rolled my windows down just so they can see me, and (to conceal my tint). i think tint regs are WAY to strict, however everyone understands why, and the reason being for law enforcement to be able to see what is going on inside.(the reason they blast that beam into your side mirrors, blinding you!!!) anyhow, i feel and i'm sure everyone else does that a little tint on the passenger and driver side windows should be allowed. i do understand why its such an issue i just recalled an incident that happened on interstate 78 in San Marcos,CA and a cadillac had limo tint on the back windows the officer approached the driver side and a second suspect was in the back seat and he shot the officer, i can't remember all the details, nor can i remember if the officer was killed but good lord, i understand. anyhow i'm not quite sure what to say now that i remember that.

bestatchess · 03-20-2004, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cienfuegos

Whoa Whoa Whoa what happened to the tint discussion......

Sorry

What we need is electronic tint where you can press a button and clear the windows when you get pulled over or at night. Maybe something like this:

http://www.agpgroup.com.au/html/spd.htm

Cienfuegos · 03-20-2004, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bestatchess

Sorry

What we need is electronic tint where you can press a button and clear the windows when you get pulled over or at night. Maybe something like this:

http://www.agpgroup.com.au/html/spd.htm

Sort of like those eye glasses that tint in the sun. That would be sweet.

Optimist · 03-20-2004, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bestatchess

Sorry

What we need is electronic tint where you can press a button and clear the windows when you get pulled over or at night. Maybe something like this:

http://www.agpgroup.com.au/html/spd.htm

Years from now I suspect with a flip of a switch we could change the color of our car.