3-way 6x9 Tweeter Height question

BLWedge09 · 01-23-2005, 03:40 PM

Ok, I've found the 6x9's I've been wanting for a price I have no problem paying but I've run into a problem. They're the ALPINE SPS-690A 6x9 3-ways. I don't know if anybody else here has successfully installed these but here's the problem I've got. I found the speakers for about half of what Crutchfield wants for them but I always look at their website to see what they say fits. They say that these will not fit. I checked the mounting depth and that seemed to be good so I couldn't figure out why from the website so I called them. They said that it was because of the tweeter height. After doing some more searching, I managed to find that the tweeter actually rises about 3/4 of an inch above the top of the speaker. In other words, if you sat the speaker down (magnet down) and got down level with it, you'd see the tweeter sticking up about 3/4 " above the rest. Now, granted I haven't taken the door panels off to check this out, I did use a flashlight to look through the grill in the door and see the stock speaker. The outer edge of the speaker is right behind the door panel but the panel curves outward in the middle and there might be enough room to accomodate these speakers. I also thought I remembered someone else mentioning that there is a spacer behind the stock speakers. Maybe this could be reduced enough or removed completely to accomodate these. I really want these speakers and at $54.95 a pair I hate to pass them up. Originally I wanted memphis audio 6x9s, as I posted yesterday I believe, but from reviews I have read people seem to think these speakers are great. Basically, I just want to know if anybody has installed these or other speakers with a similar situation and from others with install experience if you think it is doable without a lot of hard work and modification.

Thanks in advance. By the way, I did do a search for this but I couldn't really come up with anything. If you find something in a previous post, feel free to point me there...I won't get offended. I did find out how to remove the door panels from a previous post. That will be very helpful.

bestatchess · 01-23-2005, 04:27 PM

The OEM front door 6x9s are indeed mounted on a piece of plastic. Depending on how far the magnet sticks out the back from the mounting plane of your alpines, I would think you could make an MDF mounting plate that would work in place of the OEM plastic mount, and perhaps accommodate the alpines.

I didn't take pics of the front, but this will give you the general concept:

Changing Rear Door Speakrs in CC w/ RF

The front MDF mounts are more the shape of a map of the U.S. rather than a circle.

I want to say that the window glass is about 2 inches back from the mounting plane of the inner door metal, but maybe somebody else can confirm the exact available depth for the fronts.

I have one of the OEM RF front 6x9s on hand, unfortunately w/o the plastic mounting plate (sacrificed as a router template). The OEM RF 6x9 measures about 3.5 inches deep from the plane of the flange for the mounting screws which mount the speaker to the OEM plastic mount to the back of the magnet.

bestatchess · 01-23-2005, 04:32 PM

Also, smoketitan might be a good source on this, as I think he mounted some huge speakers in the front doors.

BLWedge09 · 01-23-2005, 04:37 PM

Thanks for the help. It seems to me from what you said that it is pretty doable. It might take a little work though. On the other hand, they might work straight out of the box. I mean come on, we all know that Crutchfield didn't physically try every speaker they have in a Titan.

smoketitan · 01-23-2005, 05:03 PM

as far as large ht 6x9 behind the doors, I would recommend against it (but thats just me), I had a pair of 6x9's with the tweeter mouted on top and they didnt fit, so I returned them. I then bought some cdt 6.5" with the tweeters mounted the same way and they would not fit with the stock black moutning hardware. it would hit the door panel--so I had to mount it directly to the door

and I have been through many speakers belive me,and there is no 6x9 that can match the clarity of a 6.5" component set,and most component set properly tuned,instlaled,and powered correctly can obtain the same bass output--I hope you see the difference

here are my recommedations

1) ditch the 6x9' they make more noise than quality. if you look at most brands there are no high quality 6x9's to be had anywhere--exceptu in europe. they add more bass ouput, but the midrange is very lacking

2) since you are on budget I assume (although I would not slack on the front speakers since this is you main source of sound not your subs like most think--lol)

so if you have 500 to spend spend 400 on front speakers and 100 on a sub--the best setups have more upfront kick to bring the sub forward vs all the sub bass coming from behind you

3) bestatchess has the edi 6500 they are a very good set for I think 150-200 shipped

ask his opinion I am sure he will tell you that they sound pretty good

if you have a littel more

here are some other options that I have heard

a) alpine 177r about 275 shipped
b) pg ti6 eltie about 300 shipped
c) kicker ss65.2 or ss56.2 the latter can be had for around $300 shipped (only difference is a smaller tweeter
d)arc audio acs 265 around 250-300 shipped

take the tweeter place it in the stock dash hole
make a wood ring to mount to the door(easier than it sounds)
and voila your front speakers will be done, it wont take but a few hours

if you must go 6x9, you will still have to seperate the tweet from the speaker unless you mount it drectly to the door with a wood baffle

mdquart makes sepereate tweet/6x9 set

good luck and I wise audio guy once told me--to spend the majority of your money on your speakers (front, subs then rear-- in that order)

and then your amps--get a god reliable amp, but you dont need to spend $800 to get good sound

smoketitan · 01-23-2005, 05:06 PM

oh yeah and if you look around I cant find it but I also posted a pic of my door install I have 8" mids (2.6" deep) the baflfe is3/4" from the actuall metal--so you have plenty of room

if you are not to handy with wood, many of us could just make them for you and mail em out, for the cost of shipping and wood

BLWedge09 · 01-23-2005, 06:00 PM

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm on a fairly low budget right now (paying for this monster) and I really just want something decent to replace the stock crap speakers that are in it. By the way I don't have the RF system or a changer, just the basic 2-din HU and whatever crap speakers come with that. Looks like I have two options if I want to use these speakers. 1. Replace modify or remove the spacer behind the current speaker to accomodate the tweets. 2. (Don't know if this is possible) remove the tweets from the speaker and actually mount them where the current tweeters are. If I could remove them without damaging the main speaker, I don't see a reason this wouldn't work. Anyway, let me know what you think. I'd really rather stick with 6x9's for easier mounting and the last set of 6x9's I had (Memphis Audio) were outstanding. Everybody loved those. I may end up going that route again if the Alpines don't work out but they're about double the price and I've still got to buy a decent hu.

eakes · 01-23-2005, 06:22 PM

What I suggest: Leave the front speakers alone - use them as is. Buy the 6x9s of your choice (plus speaker boxes) and place them in the rear. Abandon the rear door speakers. This is the configuration I have in my KC (although I started with the RF radio and not the 'stock').

Personally, I do not like music 'hitting me in the face' so I always adjust the fade to favor the rear speakers such that the music comes from behind me. I do not like the boom box sound that large 10 and 12 inch speakers produce in an auto so I never opt for those large speakers and the high power amps they require.

At some future date, should your fortune improve, you could replace the front door speakers and do any other mods you may want to at that time.

BLWedge09 · 01-24-2005, 09:42 PM

Eakes, It's not that I don't have the money right now, it's that I just can't make myself part with so much at one time. It took two tries for me to sign the papers for my Titan. Anyway, just thought I'd update yall. I decided to go ahead with my original plan and purchased a set of 2 way Memphis Car Audio Power Reference 6x9s (I know, I know but I like 6x9s). Yall are gonna laugh but I only got one installed late this evening after work. I was trying to be so careful with the door panel that it took me a while and it got dark on me. I'll just keep the radio low in the morning (only a 5-10 drive to work) and install the ohter one tomorrow evening. I also decided to go ahead and upgrade my hu so i purchased a Kenwood KDC-1028 from Crutchfield. I like the look and I didn't really want anything fancy enough to warrant spending anymore than this. The hu is shown in the attached image. Here is my question...I have a KC SE but it came with the XE bezel and crappy double din hu (also shown below). Crutchfield only has the Scosche package (bezel and mounting bracket. I know that Metra makes a kit specifically for the Titan but I'd have to order it and wait longer for it than the new hu. The local place where I picked up the 6x9's said they didn't have the specific Titan kit but that with the bezel that I had, my hu could be installed with one of the universal pocket kits. Does anybody know if this is true? I keep seeing so much information about these kits that I can't tell what will and won't work anymore. Help me out please, but quickly too before my new head unit arrives!

Thanks in advance.

eakes · 01-24-2005, 10:24 PM

The Metra 7417 universal kit will work. That is the one I am using in my LE. This is a single DIN with a pocket to fill the lower half. At some previous time I posted here which set of ears to use and the necessary modifications required (need to drill a hole in each of the ears to allow the alignment tabs to fit). Do a search on my screen name and you should be able to find it.

sleightofhand · 01-25-2005, 11:18 PM

I dont know if the alpines work but i installed some eclipse point source 6x9.
They have huge magnets for 6x9s and a big crossover on them. I cant believe how many subtle sounds they pick up from music that I havent heard on other speakers. I use a zapco amp and eclipse head unit so the electronics are higher end which helps obviously. I am suprised you would want alpine over the memphis but anyway I think you might be surprised how good they sound and that they will probably fit.

BLWedge09 · 02-01-2005, 06:23 PM

OK guys, I've got the hu (Kenwood KDC-1028) and Memphis 6x9s installed and i want a little more bass from them. I've never even owned a sub and really don't want to go that route if at all possible. All other frequencies sound great but I just want a little more bump. I need suggestions. Should I replace the factory rear speakers to try to even things out a little, add an amp to the fronts(never done this before) , or add a small sub and amp. I don't want gut-wrenching bass, just more than I have now. My kenwood hu puts out 22watts RMS/ 50 watts peak and the Memphis 6x9's I have are rated at 60 watts rms/ 120 watts Maximum so maybe that's my problem. I don't want to do anything that could void any part of my warranty. Give me some suggestions but don't go overboard. I'm a pretty technical guy...heck I'm a programmer by day...but stereo RMS/Peak watts etc. just seem to confuse me.

eakes · 02-01-2005, 07:59 PM

More bass = bigger speaker, bigger speaker = bigger amp. 22 watts RMS is not enough to drive a 10 inch speaker (which is what you will need for more 'kick').
Use the pre-amp outs for the rear speaker channel and connect to an external amp, use that amp to drive a subwoofer.
I would suggest a dual channel amp whose output can be bridged - 50 to 60 watts RMS per channel should be enough for a moderate amount of additional bass. Use one or two 10 inch sub-woofers mounted in a box in the rear seat area. Two speakers under the seats in a KC may not be doable. (you could always remove the rear seats - if so - then plenty of room) I would start with one 10 inch speaker with the amp output bridged.

Of course a more powerful amp will deliver more sound power - larger amps also cost more and require higher rated speakers. You just have to find what is comfortable for you.
I have used 50 watts to a pair of 10 inch speakers in a Frontier installation a few years ago and that provided more than enough bass for me.

bestatchess · 02-01-2005, 09:01 PM

Yup, if you want decent bass out of a reasonably sized enclosure, you need sufficient power. If you want the math, google "Hoffman's Iron Law".

I would also suggest a 10" sub in a box under one of the rear seats.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/11kv2_special.htm

That appears to be a decent deal on a sub + amplifier for $250. The NINe2 would put 400 watts into the sub, which is what I have driving mine, and it is plenty for me. A few bucks more for good RCA cables, ground & power cable, and to make a box.

The 11KV2 goes into a .5 cu ft. box, which will fit nicely under one of the rear seats.

Get a decent sub, it will make you happy.