1.1 ft3 Fiberglass box for 12" SW

**gr8titan** · 04-21-2005, 10:16 AM

I didn't want to hijack a previous thread so here's the finished fiberglass sub-woofer box I was making. My goal was to create an enclosure for a 12" SW in the least space recommended by the speaker manufacturer, keep an OEM appearance and maintain maximum utility of the rear floor area of my CC. I listen mostly to Jazz and 70/80's music, I like the "full spectrum" with a hint of chest "thump" and will never compete with my sound system.

The Pioneer TS-SW124D fits the bill primarily because of the mounting depth of only 4" and recommended enclosure of 0.6-1.0 cu ft. Specs include a very low (good) freq range of 18Hz-1KHz, sensitivity is (so-so) 88dB, RMS is (just ok) 300W/Peak 1200W

The box I made has a nominal dimension of 14"x18"x6" giving it a volume of at least 0.87 cu.ft. which should be good enough as per Pioneer's recommendation. I have not ordered the speakers (yet) but I already installed the box for fit and visual evaluation. The Amp will be mounted vertically behind the same jump-seat.

Thumbnail enclosed for your constructive comments and suggestions. Any shallow mount 12" subs out there with good specs? Pass me some info.

I'll be updating my website for the fiberglass enclosure construction.

smoketitan · 04-21-2005, 10:18 AM

man that is waaay cool

I left you some ideas on woofers in the other thread

very good idea

and how did you get so much volume in that little space?? did you meaure the internal volume??

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr8titan

Smoke ,
Yes, it will attach to the seat. My goal here is to have just a little low end "thump" without compromising the floor space in my CC. The amp will be mounted behind the same jump seat.

These Illusion Audio 12", how much mounting depth do they require? The box I made can only take 12" with maximum 4.5" mounting depth. That's why I went for the new Pioneer sub with a recommended max 4" mounting depth & enclosure size of 0.6-1.0 ft3.

These specs: Nominal power: 300W, Freq Resp: 18Hz-1KHz & Sensitivity: 88dB, are they decent enough? I am not into anything loud. I listen to mostly Jazz and 70's/80's music and I just want the "full spectrum" inside the cab. If you guys know for any other 12" sub with 4-5 inch mounting depth, please respond as I my search came up with no other choice. I haven't purchased the Pioneers yet so maybe it's not too late.

Thanks

and man the illusion audioIMO are better than those pioneers in the SQ arena

id listen to one first before you buy it--they are a little light and muddy (the pioneer)

thats my focus for speakers is how they sound not how loud they get

teh illusion audio i 3.4" deep I think and needs 1-1.25 cu ft

check out the website

they just got re-released

that phase linear is also less than 4" deep

good luck

Russell · 04-21-2005, 11:01 AM

G8Titan,
I think you will like the sub. I have it with .5 Cft3 and it sound good. Your not going to win any spl competitions with it and I feel its sound quality is as good as most. Here is the way I set mine up.

I have a question for you on your box. I was just wondering if you left enough room for the woofer to flex and not hit the floor. That was my only concern when looking at your box in the down position. I have 250 rms and the sub maybe flexs 1 inch out max.

**gr8titan** · 04-21-2005, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoketitan

man that is waaay cool

how did you get so much volume in that little space??

Smoke,
I used corrugated cardboard box for all the flat areas and used HVAC adhesive aluminum strips to form the contoured areas. Aluminum strips are very pliable to be formed and if "layered", they're strong enough to support the liquid fiberglass as it cures. I then positioned a large cut to shape fiberglass matting inside the box and poured liquid fiberglass inside and rotating the box to spread the liquid to where I need it to go. I repeated this process several times while adding FG matting (appx 4"x4" squares) in overlapping fashion for reinforcement until I reached the desired thicknes 1/8 inch. The corners are thicker (about 1/4"). This procedure is easier, cleaner and more economical because the final shape is dertermined by the box.

You'd be amazed how much liquid fiberglass the corrogated cardboard can absorb and once impregnated with fiberglass & cured, they are very strong. This saves a lot of space compare to using MDF. Besides my volumetric measurements gave more than enough allowance to the wall thickness and curvatures. Least to say, actual air volume is more than my numerical estimate.

BTW Smoke, thanks for the info on speakers! Now I may have to reconsider the brand of speaker to install. You're making it difficult for me man.
Russel, great space saving setup too buddy.

Here's how the box looked prior to "glassing"

m95roadster · 04-21-2005, 11:59 AM

Gr8,
You're getting very creative! Very nice job! Question for you, do you have any space under the subwoofer and floor? You should shoot for at least 1" clearance.

So HVAC tape can conform to shapes? I will be working on something, but I was going to use a mesh screen with liquid plastic. Now I just might use the HVAC tape instead.

smoketitan · 04-21-2005, 12:05 PM

man that is soooo cool

I swear you are taking the titan mods to another level

on recommendation regardless of what speaker you chose

Id look into some liquid deadener like cascade vb-1x ONLY (not there other stuff)

to paint the insides of the box as fiberglass tends to have a bad resonance

two layers woudl be fine on something so small

late

Justintoxicated · 04-21-2005, 12:11 PM

I'm not sure what you mean RMS 300 peak 1200 is only ok? As in it's too many watts for the output or you want something that takes more watts? The loudness of the speaker doe snot equal how many watts it is necessarily. I have 2 12's running 125 watts RMS each that should put that 12 to chame in the loudness department... It's all about efficiency and sound quality as well as the build quality of the speaker.

QWIKWHIP · 04-21-2005, 12:28 PM

Very nice! I was planning the same concept and you beat me too it! I wanted something attached to the seat also. Looks great.

Justintoxicated · 04-21-2005, 12:30 PM

BTW I really like the concept. I noticed from your pics that the countor of the floor is perfectly flat untill you hit the back of the seat. I think this is where I'm going to run into problems with my KC, the countour starts approcimates 2/3 of the way back under the seat...
Does that sound right!

**gr8titan** · 04-21-2005, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m95roadster

Gr8,
You're getting very creative! Very nice job! Question for you, do you have any space under the subwoofer and floor? You should shoot for at least 1" clearance. So HVAC tape can conform to shapes? I will be working on something, but I was going to use a mesh screen with liquid plastic. Now I just might use the HVAC tape instead.

m95,
Thanks. As the side perspective photos show, I have 1" clearance up front to 2" towards the back.
The aluminum tape is great because it can also hold the first layer of dry FG mat/cloth. "Pouring" the liquid fiberglass through the pre-cut speaker hole and just rotating the box so the liquid FG flows to the desired location before it cures is very convenient. The HVAC tape can be immediately removed as soon as the liquid FG cures.
Next step is to carpet a flat mounting surface for the Amp behind the seat

**gr8titan** · 04-21-2005, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated

I'm not sure what you mean RMS 300 peak 1200 is only ok? As in it's too many watts for the output or you want something that takes more watts? The loudness of the speaker doe snot equal how many watts it is necessarily. I have 2 12's running 125 watts RMS each that should put that 12 to chame in the loudness department... It's all about efficiency and sound quality as well as the build quality of the speaker.

It's a known fact that the perception of "loudness" is measured by the sensitivity rating. Unfortunately, this Pioneer's sensitivity is only rated at (so-so) 88dB. Hypothetically, a similar 300 watt speaker with sensitivity rating of 91dB would be perceived as twice as loud as the 88dB speaker, therefore, I am looking at this Pioneer speaker as equivalent to a 150W RMS if it had a sensitivity of 91dB. This is where my remark "just OK" came in. Nothing derogatory against this speaker because I may end up buying it if I can't locate one with better sensitivity rating.

Remember, I will be using only ONE sub, therefore if I can get the highest rated sensitivity that can fit in this box, the better for me.

BTW, what 12" subs are you using? What are their mounting depths? Maybe it will fit the box I just built. Do you mind giving me their specs (sensitivity & freq range)? Thanks
PEACE

smoketitan · 04-21-2005, 05:14 PM

so let me get this straight you made a carboard mold wrapped with aluminum tape (what is this by the way) and then jsut poured the resin/hardener inside?? how di you apply the mat??or did you just do it by hand through the hole

I have seen many glass techinques and this is surely the msot creative and seems the easiest --no wood

and it seems you can do all the work outside the car--ie no mess potential

hmmm details please

anyway here the illusion speakers Im talking about (us dealer told me they have a msrp of 349, but cheaper if you buy direct--wont be released till mid may though)

http://www.illusionaudio.com/docs/carbon_subs.htm

and note the frequency range is a typo --I called the guy (I owned an older nd10 and mine played to 20hz easy)

alotmobile also has a shallow 12"

http://www.altomobile.com/html/falstaff.html

and another option you may want to look at since it has 12mm xmax and is only 150

is this one from the old stryker audio company--now called acosutic elegance

http://yellow.mynethost.com/~bv12636...4b1cd62c439388

heres a good thread on it

http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=299

its kinda cool looking too--see picture

http://www.aespeakers.com/albums/AE-...ine10_side.jpg

http://www.aespeakers.com/albums/AE-...ne10_front.jpg

and some t/s specs from the thread

SL10-8 Parameters:

Fs: 29.3Hz
Qts: .649
Qes: .755
Qms: 4.597
Re: 7.6ohm
Z: 8ohm
Le: 2.3mH
Vas: 36.6L
Mms: 163grams
Cms: .18mm/N
Bl: 17.39Tm
SPL 2.83V: 83dB

Justintoxicated · 04-21-2005, 05:58 PM

they are just 12 W0's in a Band-Pass Box, I would not recomend them for the titan. But do to the config and efficiency I have been told they will still be louder than a 10W7 although it would be close. Keep in mind a 10W7 is going to give much CLEANER Bass than the 2 12's but it's takes up 3x the power!

They are not the most "clear" subs in the world though and takeup too much space. Get something else.

I think they were saying that you should have 1 inch space between the Sub and the floor, not from the front to back.

I'm starting to thik I should Fiberglass my own box but It sounds pretty difficult and I don't want my sub to look bad so I may still wait for the stealthbox.

I do have a few rolls of aluminum tape, I think you can get it at home depo

**gr8titan** · 04-21-2005, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoketitan

so let me get this straight you made a carboard mold wrapped with aluminum tape (what is this by the way) and then jsut poured the resin/hardener inside?? how di you apply the mat??or did you just do it by hand through the hole I have seen many glass techinques and this is surely the msot creative and seems the easiest --no wood

and it seems you can do all the work outside the car--ie no mess potential. details please

Smoke,

Thanks for all the info/specs on the subs.

It's amazing how much strength there is in a cardboard saturated with liquid fiberglass. Here's the $75 cardboard box FG technique:

step1. I made a corrogated cardboard mold!! Used aluminum HVAC tape on the outside to hold all straight boards together. (Aluminum tape is more rigid than any other tape BUT can be bent to conform if needed) At this point, the rounded corners are still open (and so with the speaker hole).

step 2. Using contact spray adhesive (I use 3M), apply the inside of the box and one side of the fiberglass matting. Wait a few minutes for adhesive to be tacky then apply matting to ALL internal flat surfaces.

step 3. Using aluminum HVAC tape, externally apply and "contour/fold" over non flat areas. The adhesive side towards the inside open spaces can be used to hold the fiberglass matting in place. This will also allow you to form the aluminum both from inside and outside.

step 4. Mix a moderate amount of liquid fiberglass and pour inside the box. Quickly spread the liquid FG before it cures by rotating the box to let the liquid FG to flow to any desired area (I did the joints/corners first). Wait a few minutes for the liquid FG to cure then repeat the process until all internal areas are coated with cured FG.

step 5. You can increase thickness and strength by repeating step 4 and placing squares/strips of FG matting (4"x4") over freshly poured liquid FG in an overlapping pattern. Use a metal rod to position FG squares to the desired placement.

step 6. Remove all aluminum HVAC strips after FG has cured ( 5-10 min). Sand any FG that may cause any "bumps" on the carpeting.

step 7. Apply carpeting using HD contact adhesive.

PM me for questions if you need further details.

smoketitan · 04-21-2005, 06:35 PM

man that is ingenious!!!!! im going to try that just to see if I can do it--lol

the only thing that was holding me back was having to do the glassing in my truck

you make glassing seem so easy

who would think to make the mold out of carboard first??

I assume this tape can be bought at hoem depot??

and what type or resin did you use?? home depot also?