Nitrous Enterprises

[mustangsally]

Hello,

There was a thread on TitanTalk talking about Nitrous Enterprises and their new lift kit for the Titan. They were looking for, and got, volunteers to test out their new products. I made a post alerting potential customers to a thread on another forum that was severely critical of NE. After some back and forth, the Titan thread was deleted. If it was deleted by the moderators, that's fine. Since this is your forum, you may do as you wish. But I think that deleting the thread is a real disservice to the members here. For someone looking for research on Titan spacers, they just might do a search on NE and come upon this information. So, on the chance (I think a good chance) that the thread was deleted by NE, I'll repost some of the discussion.

There is a lively discussion about the quality of NE products and the ethics of the company going on here: http://www.yotatech.com/showthread.php?t=49576

The issues revolve around the following:

1. Quality problems: Lopsided spacers, uneven spacers, very poor molds, material questions, possible cracking, shipping "grade 2" bolts when they advertised grade 5 (for the top plate of the front spacers - DEFINATELY don't wan't "grade 2" in there), relocating rear shocks to a non-reinforced location within the truck, etc.

2. Delivery time problems: Order your kit, pay for your kit, who knows when you'll get it. This was for supposidly finished kits, all testing done, selling the final product, supposidly in stock.

3. Lying to customers about delivery time problems: Continual lying to customers about delivery. Say they've shipped them when they haven't. Goes on for months if you let it. They do appear to have refunded the money of those who have asked and have not received their kits.

4. Secretly putting down the competition problems: Want to compare your product to the competition? No problem. That's not the NE way though. They have created multiple accounts (or had friends do it) on multiple forums to attempt to tear down the competition.

5. Multiple screen names to make yourself look better: Like the multiple accounts to discredit the competition, even more accounts to make NE look better than it really is.

6. Creating fake pictures of a non-existing lift: Their photoshop skills are pathetic. This one was kind of sad.

7. Even more.....

One of the latest pieces on NE's own forum (they keep getting banned from other forums) states:

Also, there has been quite a bit of needless worry about the bolts we have supplied you for the top of your strut tower within our lift kits. These bolts you currently have are more than strong enough to take the load applied upon them, and strength wise are VERY appropriate for what they are needed to do. The first 10-20 of you have the grade 2 bolts, and the last 10 or so have the grade 5 bolts.

Two problems here. First is that they should never shipped out the "grade 2" or "butter bolts" in the first place (they advertised grade 5 and their kit's parts list says grade 5). This debate will eventually be settled, but this is the suspension we're talking about. If that fails at a critical time, say goodbye to your family and friends. Hopefully you won't kill anyone else on the road either. Second problem is that they weren't even grade 2. They were "307A" carriage bolts meant for building fences. The following information on grade 2 and 307a is from http://www.nucor-fastener.com/pdf/005.pdf

Interchangeability of Grade 2 and A307A BoltingIn general, since the minimum strength requirement of a Grade 2 is greater than that of an A307A, a Grade 2can be successfully utilized in applications where an A307A is specified. Conversely because of the lower min-imum strength specified for an A307A, caution should be exercised when substituting an A307A in an appli-cation in place of a Grade 2. Since the overall strength ranges of the Grade 2 and A307A overlap, it has beencommon for substitutions of either grade to occur. Since 1987, when the '307A' headmarking became amandatory requirement, users have been more discerning to the differences between Grade 2 and A307Abecause they now have different headmarks.

So NE can't even get that correct.

Finally, this is all being brought before the authorities (the CPSC - Consumer Product Safety Commission and the NHTSA - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration).

Again, for the safety of the members of this forum and others on the road, I urge the moderators to not delete this thread.

[mustangsally]

FYI, the following complaint was filed with the CPSC and the NHTSA. The CPSC has since responded and stated that the NHTSA has jurisdiction.

I have serious concerns over the safety of several automobile aftermarket products being sold by Nitrous Enterprises LLC. Nitrous Enterprises (NE) is a Washington State company, which develops and markets “lift kits” and other products for the Toyota 4Runner, the Toyota Tacoma, and the Nissan Titan. I believe it is highly likely that their products will modify vehicles such that they will become unsafe and be the direct cause of accidents. I have the following concerns about the Nitrous Enterprises products:

1. Their “Spacer” lift kits. The main components of this kit are large “spacers” -- large pieces of polyurethane. The polyurethane spacers are made to order, one at a time, by pouring a mixture into a mold and letting it harden. The spacers modify the suspension of the vehicle, making it ride higher than it does from the factory. I have several concerns about this kit:

a. My first concern is that the polyurethane is custom-mixed and poured into a mold for each order and that it is quite possible that, if the mixture is off or if the curing of the mixture isn’t done properly, there may be structural problems that won’t be noticeable until the component is put under stress. From the looks of the finished product, I doubt that NE had any prior experience with manufacturing products in this manner.

b. My second concern is that the finishing of the spacers may make the problem even worse. There are four polyurethane spacers, one for each corner of the vehicle. Neither the front nor the rear spacers match. They are lopsided and not the same size as each other. The reason for this appears to be both the poor skills at creating molds and their “finishing” process – filing away excess material by hand with a dremel.

c. In addition to the polyurethane spacers, their kit also includes additional steel spacers for the front of the truck and longer bolts to replace the OEM bolts that bolt through the top of the strut tower. Their replacements bolts were advertised as Grade 5 bolts and the information sheet that came with the kit says they are Grade 5 bolts. However, the bolts have a stamp of “307A” on the top. A 307A bolt is less than a Grade 2 bolt. I do not believe that part should be anything less than a Grade 5 bolt. Even more disturbing was NE’s insistence that they were Grade 5 bolts until the evidence was clearly spelled out to them. This suggests either complete ineptitude (and makes one wonder about what else they may be inept) or complete lack of concern for the safety of others.

2. Their Rear Shock Relocators for the 2003-2005 Toyota 4Runner. This product is machined of stainless steel. It attaches through an existing hole in the subframe of the truck. Its purpose is to move the shocks approximately three inches up in order to compensate for the loss of travel seen when installing their spacer lift kit. I have two concerns with the relocators:

a. The subframe location that holds the OEM mounts for the rear shocks is reinforced. The location where the relocator is installed is not reinforced and was clearly not intended for this purpose. I’m concerned that the subframe will not be able to stand up under continual pressure of daily driving.

b. I am also concerned about the material with which the relocator is made. Although this piece looks professionally machined, I doubt the ethics of the company enough to make me doubt the quality of this piece as well.

3. Their “bolt-on” Rock sliders for 2003-2005 4Runners. Rock sliders are a component for 4WD trucks that look similar to the tube-step style of running boards. However, sliders are meant to be able to bear the weight of the truck. Thus, when going over a rock, one may “slide” over it without damaging the truck. NE purchases the main component of the slider from another vendor and I have confidence in the quality of that vendor. However, NE then attaches their “bolt-on” section to the sliders. Looking closely at the pictures they provided, it is apparent they have no welding skills at all. It is very possible these will fail if ever put to actual use.

My main concern is the spacer lift kit and shock relocators. Since these directly modify the suspension of the vehicle and are a critical component of the vehicle, failure could result in the entire suspension failing at high speed causing injury or death to both the occupants of the modified vehicle and anyone nearby when the failure occurs.

All of my concerns have to do with their finished shipping products. However, I am in contact with several others who have concerns of their own over products received as part of their R&D process. In addition, I am in contact with a former employee who can verify all of the above.

The response from Nitrous Enterprises has been to insist that they only make quality products, that they have been thoroughly tested, and that they are quite safe. However, after talking with a number of other former customers (and former employee) and hearing their experiences and doubts, I now question everything they have ever stated.

I have one of their spacer lift kits and their rear shock relocators for my 2004 Toyota 4Runner that can be examined. The parts are in the box as they were shipped to me and have not been installed on my truck.

[ekool]

We have no supporting vendor by that name on the forum here, so they shouldnt be selling items regardless. Maybee I missed it?

[mustangsally]

They were not advertising as a vendor. They just made a post telling people about their product. Their original thread was deleted. They've done this before (create and then delete threads/posts). The latest example here is the thread at just got the nitrous enteprises leveling kit on . I saw a post or two from them on that thread, but the posts have since been deleted.

They are currently registered under the name NWNissan on this forum, but they like to create multiple user names as well, so who knows.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with them advertising here if you don't. I just wanted to give people the opportunity to see what they might be getting into by doing business with Nitrous Enterprises.

[mustangsally]

For a detailed summary of all of the issues surrounding Nitrous Enterprises, take a look at http://www.buyerbeware.ws . Sign up for the mailing list to be notified of any updates.

[mustangsally]

There have been a few developments since BuyerBeware.ws was first published two weeks ago. The following summary is from the BuyerBeware newsletter, issue #1. New newsletters will be published whenever there is enough new material to publish, but probably not more than twice a month.

There is a lot more going on in trying to get NE to stop producing defective parts, so there should be a lot more to come.


BUYERBEWARE.WS NEWSLETTER, Issue #1, March 31, 2005

1. NEW COMPLAINTS FILED—New complaints have been filed against Nitrous Enterprises with the FTC (Ref No. 5858482), the Better Business Bureau (Case No. 22038008), and RipoffReport.com ( http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff136870.htm ).Å The “How You Can Help” and “Getting A Refund” articles have been updated with this information.

Other complaints are being researched and prepared for other agencies.


2. Nitrous Squeaks—bulldog-yota from YotaTech submitted a testimonial on 03/17/2005.Å In addition to the many pictures of the quality Nitrous Enterprises parts, he also submitted a PDF containing a lengthy email correspondence with Nitrous Enterprises.Å It’s a very interesting read and gives some insight into the professionalism of the people behind Nitrous Enterprises.

http://www.buyerbeware.ws/index.php...itrous_squeaks/


3. Used NE Parts Wanted—If you have any used Nitrous Enterprises parts that you are thinking of throwing in the trash where they belong, please don’t.Å I’ll pay the postage if you send them to me.Å We are talking about possible life-threatening situations.Å Nitrous Enterprises is manufacturing and selling defective parts.Å They need to be stopped.Å Please help to stop them.

http://www.buyerbeware.ws/index.php...e_parts_wanted/


4. They Don’t Make Stainless Like They Used To—A Nitrous Enterprises customer sent along pictures of their rusted shock re-locators.Å According to this customer, these parts were on the truck for two months.Å According to Nitrous Enterprises, the re-locators are made of stainless steel.Å With over 60 different grades of stainless steel to choose from, does it surprise anyone that Nitrous Enterprises rooted around the bottom of the barrel until they found one that rusted so easily?Å Like their “grade zero” Butter Bolts, Nitrous Enterprises has apparently found some “grade zero” stainless steel.

http://www.buyerbeware.ws/index.php...usty_stainless/


5. Their Photoshop Skills Match Their Engineering Skills—It was brought to my attention that Nitrous Enterprises is STILL using Photoshopped pictures of a lifted 2005 Tacoma to advertise their products.Å It seems pretty clear that they see nothing wrong with such practices.Å It also seems pretty clear that you can’t really trust anything that Nitrous Enterprises tells you.

http://www.buyerbeware.ws/index.php...alse_ad_tacoma/

[mustangsally]

I truely believe the information presented here and on the website buyerbeware.ws is of concern to the members of TitanTalk. However, if the moderators would prefer I not post these updates here, just let me know and I'll stop.

Regardless, I will not be involved in any more back and forth debating sessions on this forum with Nitrous Enterprises. There is a huge amount of well-documented evidence on buyerbeware.ws. None of the technical details there have been countered anywhere by Nitrous Enterprises. Judge for yourself....

So, for those STILL following this, there is a new article up on the website that takes a detailed look at their choice of materials for the shock re-locators. In particular, it looks at why the stainless re-locators are rusting and the strength of the stainless steel they chose to use. You can find it here:

http://www.buyerbeware.ws/index.php/...cators_part_3/

Why is this of concern to Nissan Titan owners? What this and all articles on that site are attempting to demonstrate is a pattern of behavior by Nitrous Enterprises showing little if any real engineering research for their products. The results of which are flawed designs and, in turn, flawed products that could have serious safety consequences.

The point of all this being that if the research, design, and manufacturing on the products discussed on that website was so flawed, you might want to insist on actual proof that the product you are thinking of purchasing wasn’t made to the same “standards”.

I've provided actual evidence. Nitrous Enterprises has provided what?