* CAUTION * Warrantee voided due to K&N Air Charger

[caltitan]

One moment you're looking forward to a relaxing vacation and the next you're in a warranty claim nightmare. Good luck BigPete. Let us know how it all ends.

[BigPete]

Originally Posted by awgriffey

From what I understand, the K&N CAI unit could void your warranty, while the K&N drop in only can not. This is the info I got off K&N's website, and from the parts guys at my local dealership who dropped the filter in my Titan.

I asked this same question as I started with the K&N drop in. I asked the dealer in my situation would it be any different with either the CAI or the drop in filter. The answer was no. It seems that Nissan is not covering the air meters when they see either a drop in or a CAI.

I was informed by a third party that Nissan corporate has sent letters to all of the dealers service department that when the vehicle has either of the K&N parts (CAI or filter) not to file bad air meters as a warrantee issue. When I asked the service manager about this letter, he did not deny it but was also would not comment.

I feel that I may have more recourse through K&N. K&N does state clearly that for emission purposes that the CAI is not legal in all 50 states. What is does not state is the potential for voiding the warrantee when using their product. If I knew in advance that this was the case, I would have not used their product.

[TNTITAN]

BigPete, DO NOT TAKE THIS MATTER ANY FURTHER! I will tell you it is not worth it for several reasons. First of all, there is a good possibility that you will lose if you go after Nissan, actually I am almost certain you will. In the process you will get so much anguish from the lengthy process that it will occupy your mind and stress you out. You should have more important things to worry about. I would simply pay it, throw your balls back over your shoulder, and walk away from it having learned that modifying your vehicle can come back to bite you in the ***.

If you feel obligated to seek legal action, you are wasting your time going after Nissan. Had you asked them about putting one in they would have most likely told you it would void your warranty, and it is your obligation to ask them before doing the modification. HOWEVER, if K&N says it wont void your warranty, then obviously they are inclined to pay for fixing your truck.

Having some legal background as well as being in the car business I can tell you this is not an easy task. It will require a lot of time energy as well as patience. Expect to get the cold shoulder from K&N. I would write your letter and leave it at that. Nissan or K&N may reimburse at this stage, but if they dont I would just think of it as a lesson learned.

[GETSOMZ28]

I am inclined to agree with TNTITAN. Chalk it up as a "lessons learned." I think it is pretty clear that if the problem is caused by a modification it is not covered under warranty.

[BigPete]

Originally Posted by kevinoutdoorsman

I will jump in with my 2 lincoln pennies, I spoke to my service mgr and a
Nissan tech, if you put in anything other that Nissan genuine parts and they
mess up your vehicle, You VOID Your WARRANTY PERIOD!!

No questions asked.... Again I'm just a salesman however, the K&N is oil
soaked if the intake pulls in oil droplets(esp coming from cleaning and re-
oiling filter too much) they will get on the Mass Air flow sensor and fry it.

What the dealer failed to do in my case was to PROVE HOW the K&N caused the damage. Their claim is that since “the vehicle has been modified the warrantee will not apply to the air meter.” Their additional statement, made later after speaking with NISSAN, “by removing the sensor and placing it into an aftermarket product is why the warrantee is not being honored.” Thus suggesting that is was damaged during the swap. If this was the case then the sensor should have failed immediately. Their reply was, “we can not determine this but it is possible that over time the sensor was damaged due to the replacement.”

Clearly the rules adopted by the FTC state;

"This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.”

The fact that the dealer failed to demonstrate how the air meter was damaged by using the K&N product shows that they are not complying with the rules and regulations adopted by the FTC, which they are bound to operate under therefore the warrantee should apply.

[rvsixer]

Originally Posted by awgriffey

From what I understand, the K&N CAI unit could void your warranty, while the K&N drop in only can not. This is the info I got off K&N's website, and from the parts guys at my local dealership who dropped the filter in my Titan.

Okay I just got done reading K&N's Extent of Warranty. I could be wrong, but I read it as only covering the CAI or drop in filter itself, and no subsequent damages it causes.

Nissan language also seems pretty clear, from the warranty booklet under what is not covered: Alteration, installation of non-Nissan approved accessories or components, improper installation of any Nissan approved or aftermarket accessory or component. Also pretty much a repeat for the Emissions warranty, which is pretty much the whole induction system filter to exhaust.

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act seems to indicate though a manufacturer cannot directly refuse warranty coverage of damages from an aftermarket part, if they can offer proof it did they are not liable.

I am not a lawyer all disclaimers apply, but it seems to me whoever installs stuff like this is setting themselves up for voided warranty coverage. Nissan won't cover you and niether will the aftermarket manufacturer. All that can follow is a costly legal action, but then again Oscar Juliet got off so maybe there is hope.

[BigPete]

What the dealer failed to do in my case was to PROVE HOW the K&N caused the damage. Their claim is that since “the vehicle has been modified the warrantee will not apply to the air meter.” Their additional statement, made later after speaking with NISSAN, “by removing the sensor and placing it into an aftermarket product is why the warrantee is not being honored.” Thus suggesting that is was damaged during the swap. If this was the case then the sensor should have failed immediately. Their reply was, “we can not determine this but it is possible that over time the sensor was damaged due to the replacement.”

Clearly the rules adopted by the FTC state;

This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.”

The fact that the dealer failed to demonstrate how the air meter was damaged by using the K&N product shows that they are not complying with the rules and regulations adopted by the FTC, which they are bound to operate under therefore the warrantee should apply.

I asked one dealers opinion about adding the K&N and the warrantee issues. I was told that depending on the situation it is hard to tell if it would void the warrantee or not. Of course we are talking about warrantee claims related to the K&N and as far as I can tell it would be limited to the air meter.

Today I am receiving all of the documents pertaining to the repair including the reason for the denial of the warrantee in writing, the old air meter and the print out of the trouble codes that were stored in the ECU. A letter will be written to dealer asking him to confirm in writing that the denial is based on the use of the K&N CAI and that the fact that the dealer has failed to demonstrate the cause of the failure. I will ask for reimbursement of the cost of the repairs and for the cost of the tow and the rental vehicle. A reasonable time limit will be given for a response and a copy will be sent to Nissan corporate and K&N. If Nissan fails to recognize the warrantee then a letter will be sent to the FTC. If this fails that I will rely on K&N who in good faith should provide expense reimbursement as this was offered by K&N if all else fails. Knowing this, I think K&N knows they will have to accept some fault.

[avroflyer]

...And yet, if you ordered one of the KN drop-ins from the dealership and had THEM install it and it screwed up the MAF, it would all be covered. I know this is concerning the CAI, but regardless, if they state that it applies to any filter, drop-in or CAI, so long as THEY installed, then it is okay. Come on now, what they are then saying is that if you buy a KN DROP-IN from them and install it YOURSELF (how can you screw that up???) and the MAF goes TU, then its YOUR fault and the warranty is voided. That is downright low and all they do is end up pissing off customers.

Taking that logic further, I could change my own oil and use a "non-approved" filter element, say a KN oil filter or some other paper filter product, and if something happens after I change that oil, the dealership can simply say "yeah, _____ happened during your oil change and caused the problem" with no direct proof. Uh-oh, guess I should always change the oil at the dealership now and get reemed by the price of doing it!

THAT is why the Magnusson-Moss Act exists, to keep dealers and manufacturers from doing that. Make them PROVE it to you! I have been through this before my friend with a Dakota I used to own! I had to fight and fight with Chrysler's Regional Director of Screwing Customers, but they could never PROVE that my problem was caused by an aftermarket mod.

Sorry your plight continues.

[DeerMobile]

Keeping it simple...stock STILL rocks!

[vw1972bugs]

Originally Posted by DeerMobile

Keeping it simple...stock STILL rocks!

Yup...you really dont NEED an air charger, the truck is plenty powerful.

[Titan4x4Aggie]

Originally Posted by avroflyer

Taking that logic further, I could change my own oil and use a "non-approved" filter element, say a KN oil filter or some other paper filter product, and if something happens after I change that oil, the dealership can simply say "yeah, _____ happened during your oil change and caused the problem" with no direct proof. Uh-oh, guess I should always change the oil at the dealership now and get reemed by the price of doing it!

Very good point. I concure.

[TNTITAN]

Avroflyer, you are techinically correct, but taking it out of proportion. Dont get paranoid. The K&N filter oil can damage Mass Air Flow Sensors. Their are cases on other boards on the internet with other makes. Using a high quality non OEM oil filter will not cause any damage to your engine. But why not use an OEM one, they are cheap and good quality. As to oil, no dealer will ever be able to tell what kind of oil you used. Just keep the receipts when you change and then you can provide them for documentation.
BigPete, all I want to emphasize is that if it becomes a battle that is going to piss you off more than you already are then I do not think it is worth fighting other than writing some letters. We all know there are more important things to get pissed and stressed about. I truly do think you will get some satisfaction out of the dealer however, so just give it some time and dont bet the farm on it.

[dcrobt]

i had the same exact thing happen to me. but mine was caught the same day i installed it. about 2 miles from the dealer where i purchased the titan from. we drove it down to the delaer coughing, sputtering. they too made a note and told me that the kn aircharger voided my warranty also. I put the stock air box back on and it ran but the serv eng soon light stayed on. the fat lady sevice rep called the dealer where i live and told them about my kn mishap and they made me pay 84.51 to turn off the serv eng soon light.
i had a volant and it never did this but it fell off onto the hwy.
i now have a fram air hog
i feel your pain but not 1123 dollars worry so sorry dude!
i pray you can get it fixed for free!

[dcrobt]

don't monkey with any of these new vehicles!
not worth the hassle from gm or nissan for a lousy 20hp
it will cost you someday!
it costs me a lot of worrying too

[BigPete]

Originally Posted by TNTITAN

BigPete, all I want to emphasize is that if it becomes a battle that is going to piss you off more than you already are then I do not think it is worth fighting other than writing some letters. We all know there are more important things to get pissed and stressed about. I truly do think you will get some satisfaction out of the dealer however, so just give it some time and dont bet the farm on it.

I would have to disagree. To me, having to spend $900 on repairs and an additional $89.00 for a rental car is worth perusing especially in this case where neither the dealer nor Nissan's corporate consumer affairs division is aware of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. How can they (dealer and operator with Nissan Consumer Affairs, who by the way has the power vested to allow the claim to be filed under warranty or deny it) stand by a decision when neither is aware of this act?? Nissan has asked me to fax them a copy of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. How crazy is that?

Nissan also has asked me to send them the air filter so it can be sent to Japan for analysis. Analysis of what? Nissan who is denying the claim is going to exam the filter and say that it caused the damaged to the air flow meter. I think this is a bit bias and also detrimental to K&N if Nissan releases their results.