Double solution VS Axle-wrap

[gr8titan]

Originally Posted by Herbpov

In the drawings that you made, you have the truck going in reverse. Should be axle turning counterclockwise and axle housing and spring force is clockwise. That's looking at the truck from the driver's side.

Correct. We are looking at the truck from the driver's side. However, the truck is not going in reverse. It is only the axle housing that appears to be going in reverse which is opposite to the forward motion of the axle. The directional arrows (shown in the drawings and the photo above) of axle and leaf spring movements are in opposite reaction to the axle movement which is to go forward. Like you stated, there are two (2) opposing motions involved. I agree 100%. There's the (1) axle direction which is forward and the (2) axle housing direction which rear-ward, both of which are "trying" to counter-act one another. In this topic, we are talking about direction axle housing movement. When this axle housing twists backwards (as a counter-reaction to the forward twisting of the axle), the front half of the leaf spring will bend upwards or lifts away from the ground. Simultaneously, during this moment, the rear half of the leaf spring will bend towards the ground creating an "S shape" leaf spring. Proof of this is when you watch a car launch at the track, it would initially "squat" wherein the rear of the car tries to bottom out. Again this is as a counter-force to the forward motion of the driving axle. But once the vehicle motion (inertia) is initiated, the car will level out.

When the wheels turn to move the vehicle forward, the axles turn the same direction as the wheels which is towards the front. From the point of view of the drawings, the wheels and the axle turn counterclockwise. Using the theory of "action-counter reaction", the axle housing MUST turn opposite towards the back which is from the same point of view (driver's side), it must turn clockwise.

Now, If we view the truck from the passenger side (not drawn), the axle rotation when the vehicle is in forward motion is clockwise. The axle housing then MUST move counterclockwise to counteract this axle movement.

I hope this clarifies your concept of axle vs axle housing directional twisting.

[Herbpov]

Originally Posted by gr8titan

Correct. We are looking at the truck from the driver's side. However, the truck is not going in reverse. It is only the axle housing that appears to be going in reverse which is opposite to the forward motion of the axle. The directional arrows (shown in the drawings and the photo above) of axle and leaf spring movements are in opposite reaction to the axle movement which is to go forward. Like you stated, there are two (2) opposing motions involved. I agree 100%. There's the (1) axle direction which is forward and the (2) axle housing direction which rear-ward, both of which are "trying" to counter-act one another. In this topic, we are talking about direction axle housing movement. When this axle housing twists backwards (as a counter-reaction to the forward twisting of the axle), the front half of the leaf spring will bend upwards or lifts away from the ground. Simultaneously, during this moment, the rear half of the leaf spring will bend towards the ground creating an "S shape" leaf spring. Proof of this is when you watch a car launch at the track, it would initially "squat" wherein the rear of the car tries to bottom out. Again this is as a counter-force to the forward motion of the driving axle. But once the vehicle motion (inertia) is initiated, the car will level out.

When the wheels turn to move the vehicle forward, the axles turn the same direction as the wheels which is towards the front. From the point of view of the drawings, the wheels and the axle turn counterclockwise. Using the theory of "action-counter reaction", the axle housing MUST turn opposite towards the back which is from the same point of view (driver's side), it must turn clockwise.

Now, If we view the truck from the passenger side (not drawn), the axle rotation when the vehicle is in forward motion is clockwise. The axle housing then MUST move counterclockwise to counteract this axle movement.

I hope this clarifies your concept of axle vs axle housing directional twisting.

I thought your arrows indicated the axle rotation. I see now that the arrows indicate axle housing rotation.

[gr8titan]

Originally Posted by Herbpov

I thought your arrows indicated the axle rotation. I see now that the arrows indicate axle housing rotation.

Correct. Because when we talk about axle wrap, it is the unwanted axle housing twisting and it's direct effect to the leaf spring and drive-train angles that we are trying to control not the axle itself.

I'm glad to clear things out. PEACE!

BTW, you still have those lowering shackles available?

[got_titan]

all i need now is someone to translate all this to english...lol...lol

[gr8titan]

Originally Posted by got_titan

all i need now is someone to translate all this to english...lol...lol

A picture translates a thousand words. Posts 22 & 25. LOL

[Herbpov]

Originally Posted by gr8titan

Correct. Because when we talk about axle wrap, it is the unwanted axle housing twisting and it's direct effect to the leaf spring and drive-train angles that we are trying to control not the axle itself.

I'm glad to clear things out. PEACE!

BTW, you still have those lowering shackles available?

No shackles.

[chunko]

Doesn't this limit how well the suspension works (aka restricts travel/makes travel more difficult)

[techracer]

anyone notice if this is a 2wd vs 4wd problem? I've got an 05 KC 4x4 w/ offroad and BT and haven't noticed it being "that" bad, it does happen but doesn't seem like it is horrible.

[Batman229]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Spect...ayphotohosting

What the hell are these?

[gr8titan]

Originally Posted by Batman229

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Spect...ayphotohosting
What the hell are these?

They are also traction bars or sometimes called "anti-hop" bars for axle over spring vehicles (AOS). The 60s-70s era muscle cars owners loved to use them for increased traction for the street and strip. They are normally installed below the leaf spring with the rubber bumper towards the front of the vehicle.

They will not work for the Titan because the axle is located below the spring (SOA).

[gr8titan]

Originally Posted by adavis99

Doesn't this limit how well the suspension works (aka restricts travel/makes travel more difficult)

I did not notice any impairment of the vertical movement (travel) of the suspension. The ride quality is still basically the same but the "bounciness" when I hit small bumps is markedly improved.

[Herbpov]

I removed my JT helper springs and installed a set of the Hellwig Traction Springs. I like the set up alot better. Does not lower the rear like the JT helper springs did. In fact they may even raise the rear about 1/4 inch. Nice ride too. Good find GR8TITAN.

[Ramon]

Would this type of setup be benificial for towing. I own a 04 Armada with a new rear end at 10,000 miles. I also own a 05 Titan that I now use to tow my camper with instead of my Armada.

[Galaxian]

Originally Posted by gr8titan

I did not notice any impairment of the vertical movement (travel) of the suspension. The ride quality is still basically the same but the "bounciness" when I hit small bumps is markedly improved.

Did using both helpers lower the rear end?

[gr8titan]

There was no change in the rear height.

There was also less "bounce" when I pull my 5K lb boat+trailer.