What does a a 2 degree timing advance and a Poweraid throttle body spacer do????????

[mberlin74]

I am looking into a magnaflo muffler (not the whole exhaust due to little gains and too much money) install with the stock pipes and also a CAI (not sure which one yet...AFE Stage 2, Volant or K&N). Would doing this advance and throttle body spacer mod be benificial to me at all?????

[Toomnymods]

it's kinda doubtful cause theorettically your still not opening up the most restrictive part of the whole exhaust which is the stock "Y" which most cat back systems delete and add a much more open "Y" that alone will give you some ponies but usually lose a little low end torque, but adding the 2 degree timing advance and the tbs will give some of that back.

[TitanBlue]

More Optomistic Opinion here.

2 degree sparks sooner for power increase, your telling the ECU to be more agressive in its reaction to what it is sensing. Very safe mod, across the board increase. TBS Swirls air at end of intake chain to atomize fuel better, mostly effectiveat lowend, less dramatic at high end. Also safe, may increase economy. As always, search for thethreads on these issues.

You are looking to do system identical to mine. I added just the MagnaFlow muffler, PowerAid TBS, AEM BruteForce CAI and the 2 Degree Timing Advance. On a dyno done in 95 degree heat, I showed 274RWHP and 324 RWTQ. Many (including exhaust mfg) say the stock Y-pipe on Titans is very good, do not change it. This approach is Cost effective and Performance is greatly improved and no loss of lowend power. Keeping stock pipes is a good thing unless you want ultimate increases at highend. Larger pipes cost up to 30% loss at lowend. See TBS mfg dyno charts and look at 1-3K RPM. I drive mostly up to 3K on daily driving, but am not missing anything. Great Throttle response with the TBS and 2 Degree. I will dyno again in cooler weather in October, I should get much higher numbers, but have no doubt, this truck is running great! It puts you into your seat at takeoff.

Consider the following (I have this in my notebook I display at meets):

Titan Power

Many believe the 305 hp/379 lb. ft. tq. Rating of a stock Titan should really be 340 hp/425 lb. ft. tq. Most engineers use assumption of 20% loss for Drivetrain to Rear Wheel Dyno. Here is a good explanation:

“Let's talk about the facts here. Nissan claims 305 and 379 at the crank. The stock Titan typically puts down 265 and 330 to the rear wheels. Now....that is a remarkably efficient drive train.....or....Nissan has underrated the Titan.

Now...in comparison.....the Hemi we all hear about....345 at the crank and 375 ft TQ.....The Hemi typically dynos at 265 and 300 at the rear wheels.....which is about a 24% drive train loss which is a little high.

If the Titan is supposedly only loosing 13-14% through the drive train....that's just amazing!!! That or the Titan is really around 340 hp at the crank and 425 ft lbs of TQ at the crank.

So what is it...

Titan most efficient drive train out or
Titan under rated
Dodge over rated badly or
Worse drive train ever made

Let me tell you about the Titans speed. The Titans ECM cuts the Throttle Body plate by 80%, above 5100 rpm’s to redline in order to keep the transmission in good working order on the shift.

We have seen Titans run 14.9's in the 1/4 mile. You typically go through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd during this run. Now....three times your motor cuts back up too 80% for a few hundred rpms.....can you imagine what this motor will run stock if it did not do this. Look at a Titan dyno...it falls apart after 5K....because the TB starts to close.”

-dawgsS77 of TitanTalk.com on 7/19/2006”

ACTUAL DYNO Results (w/o Timing Advance) of:

274 RWHP & 324 RWTQ @ 95° Outside Temperature

Net x 1.25 =Approximate Gross

DYNO’D 342HP/405TQ Gross

Update on 8/28/06 @ 10:30PM EST:

If as written below, 2wd loss is 14.1%, then factor of 1.164xNet=Gross, so:
274 x 1.164=318.9HP @ 95 Degree Temp
324x1.164=377.1TQ @ 95 Degree Temp
COLD AIR Needed, or at least moving. Why don't dynos have fans?

[Brundy]

Good response TitanBlue, great info.

[Shane06fl]

TitanBlue not knocking what your saying but all the dyno test I have seen range from 256hp to 265hp from stock trucks. I know some Dyno's give higher numbers than other. Some factor in wind drag and other real life situations while on the road and some don't factor squat. I know Nissan underated the engine HP but I don't think it's as high as we would like it to be. More realistic it's around 315HP mark and 385-390lb'ft of TQ. No I not 100% sure but I doubt it is 340HP. As far as Dodge and their 345HP, I don't know.

http://www.pixagogo.com/2144255542

Follow this link and this is an example of a 256HP dyno before mods. Just scroll through the pictures. It's a nice set of pictures.

I would like to see a real Engine Dyno to see what is happening at the crank.

[Brundy]

I'd like to see 1 of these "parts shows" take 1 vehicle and all the available (insert product) from all the aftermarket mfg's, and dyno each on the same dyno to find which does what.
Continuity is key.

[import2nr]

i went to world car nissan of san antonio and they would not do the 2 degree timing advance for me .. they kept telling me that the computer has factory specs and it shouldnt be messed with and even if it was that it will eventually just go back to the stock settings ... i kept on trying to get him just to try it out but he wouldnt budge .... anyone on here know of any SAN ANTONIO dealers doing the 2 degree timing advance

[SKEET]

[quote=TitanBlue]More Optomistic Opinion here.

2 degree sparks sooner for power increase, your telling the ECU to be more agressive in its reaction to what it is sensing. Very safe mod, across the board increase. TBS Swirls air at end of intake chain to atomize fuel better, mostly effectiveat lowend, less dramatic at high end. Also safe, may increase economy. As always, search for thethreads on these issues.

You are looking to do system identical to mine. I added just the MagnaFlow muffler, PowerAid TBS, AEM BruteForce CAI and the 2 Degree Timing Advance. On a dyno done in 95 degree heat, I showed 274RWHP and 324 RWTQ. Many (including exhaust mfg) say the stock Y-pipe on Titans is very good, do not change it. This approach is Cost effective and Performance is greatly improved and no loss of lowend power. Keeping stock pipes is a good thing unless you want ultimate increases at highend. Larger pipes cost up to 30% loss at lowend. See TBS mfg dyno charts and look at 1-3K RPM. I drive mostly up to 3K on daily driving, but am not missing anything. Great Throttle response with the TBS and 2 Degree. I will dyno again in cooler weather in October, I should get much higher numbers, but have no doubt, this truck is running great! It puts you into your seat at takeoff.

Consider the following (I have this in my notebook I display at meets):

Titan Power

Many believe the 305 hp/379 lb. ft. tq. Rating of a stock Titan should really be 340 hp/425 lb. ft. tq. Most engineers use assumption of 20% loss for Drivetrain to Rear Wheel Dyno. Here is a good explanation:

“Let's talk about the facts here. Nissan claims 305 and 379 at the crank. The stock Titan typically puts down 265 and 330 to the rear wheels. Now....that is a remarkably efficient drive train.....or....Nissan has underrated the Titan.

Now...in comparison.....the Hemi we all hear about....345 at the crank and 375 ft TQ.....The Hemi typically dynos at 265 and 300 at the rear wheels.....which is about a 24% drive train loss which is a little high.

If the Titan is supposedly only loosing 13-14% through the drive train....that's just amazing!!! That or the Titan is really around 340 hp at the crank and 425 ft lbs of TQ at the crank.

So what is it...

Titan most efficient drive train out or
Titan under rated
Dodge over rated badly or
Worse drive train ever made

Let me tell you about the Titans speed. The Titans ECM cuts the Throttle Body plate by 80%, above 5100 rpm’s to redline in order to keep the transmission in good working order on the shift.

We have seen Titans run 14.9's in the 1/4 mile. You typically go through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd during this run. Now....three times your motor cuts back up too 80% for a few hundred rpms.....can you imagine what this motor will run stock if it did not do this. Look at a Titan dyno...it falls apart after 5K....because the TB starts to close.”

-dawgsS77 of TitanTalk.com on 7/19/2006”

ACTUAL DYNO Results (w/o Timing Advance) of:

274 RWHP & 324 RWTQ @ 95° Outside Temperature

Net x 1.25 =Approximate Gross

DYNO’D 342HP/405TQ Gross[/QUOTE Are you saying we are only getting 20% of what we could get after 5100 rpms.May sound like a dumb question but hey atleast Im trying to learn.

[mberlin74]

Has there been any adverse affects on the trucks due to timing advance or TBS's? Anyone heard of the happening? Also where in San Diego can you get this done. More so where in Chula Vista?

[mberlin74]

Should the timing advance and TBS be done before my muffler install and CAI, or does it not matter before or after?

[SoBeGraphics]

no adverse effects except pedal to the metal

sequence of mods doesn't matter.

IMHO: skip the magnaflow and get DAAAAAAAA BANKS!!!

[TitanBlue]

Originally Posted by Shane06fl

TitanBlue not knocking what your saying but all the dyno test I have seen range from 256hp to 265hp from stock trucks. I know some Dyno's give higher numbers than other. Some factor in wind drag and other real life situations while on the road and some don't factor squat. I know Nissan underated the engine HP but I don't think it's as high as we would like it to be. More realistic it's around 315HP mark and 385-390lb'ft of TQ. No I not 100% sure but I doubt it is 340HP. As far as Dodge and their 345HP, I don't know.

http://www.pixagogo.com/2144255542

Follow this link and this is an example of a 256HP dyno before mods. Just scroll through the pictures. It's a nice set of pictures.

I would like to see a real Engine Dyno to see what is happening at the crank.

No offense Shane06fl, share all you can on this one! On a seperate thread I read Stillen thinks loss is 14.1% for 2WD and 20.4% (?) for 4WD. Most of what you read in my original post here is a qoute from another user. I certainly wish it was true and accurate! My numbers should be higher but in cooler weather and maybe a hood up to not suck stagnant hot air I may be much higher. I'm reading up on this subject a lot. Great stuff. Stillen's (Kyle) comments based upon I think dozens of test. Much more likely to be accurate representation than anything else I've seen.

Yes, it would be great to do a real scientifically accurate study of stock to modded with air blowing in, etc.

Don't have absolute answer of 2 degree fading away over long term, but computer chip (ECU) has the 1 or 2 degree option built in. It is a factory design. Nothing to worry about. I've bought the UpRev Cipher so I can recheck the ECU setting anytime and learn more. It is called the initial timing setting and can always be measured by the computer, including how much it has been changed, fadiing is not possible as I understand it correctly. It is a hardware setting from -2 to +2 degrees, starts at 15btc at mandatory warmed up idle of 650rpm.

[gr8titan]

Originally Posted by SKEET

Are you saying we are only getting 20% of what we could get after 5100 rpms. May sound like a dumb question but hey atleast Im trying to learn.

The 20% is drivetrain loss from the crank to the wheel. This means only 80% of the crank HP gets to the wheel after this loss.
Some of the drivetrain losses are due but not limited to: joint/gear friction, transmission slippage, drivetrain weight (more for a 4x4, less for a 4x2), unsprung weights, etc, etc.

[import2nr]

Originally Posted by import2nr

i went to world car nissan of san antonio and they would not do the 2 degree timing advance for me .. they kept telling me that the computer has factory specs and it shouldnt be messed with and even if it was that it will eventually just go back to the stock settings ... i kept on trying to get him just to try it out but he wouldnt budge .... anyone on here know of any SAN ANTONIO dealers doing the 2 degree timing advance

bump bump bump

[mberlin74]

can someone explain to me what it means when you see bump in a post