VKPRO and detonation/ping

[Papa_D]

I'm a little confused as usual. I've read in one thread that the VKPRO requires 91 octane or higher fuel to prevent detonation and engine damage. I read in another thread that the Titan has a detonation sensor and will prevent damage that may be caused by "over tuning" or too low an octane fuel.

Does the Titan have a detonation sensor that will prevent engine damage and if so will the sensor still prevent damage with the VKPRO attached?

If the answer is yes to both of those questions, it would stand to reason that we could run any fuel we wanted even with the module attached and the Titans computer would simply "detune" the tune to prevent damage caused by detonation.

This is in not a "bash Stillen" thread and in fact I have a chip on order anyway. I am just trying to verify information so maybe Kyle and anyone else with useful information can post here to settle this once and for all.

[Helinut1970]

Originally Posted by Papa_D

I'm a little confused as usual. I've read in one thread that the VKPRO requires 91 octane or higher fuel to prevent detonation and engine damage. I read in another thread that the Titan has a detonation sensor and will prevent damage that may be caused by "over tuning" or too low an octane fuel.

Does the Titan have a detonation sensor that will prevent engine damage and if so will the sensor still prevent damage with the VKPRO attached?
If the answer is yes to both of those questions, it would stand to reason that we could run any fuel we wanted even with the module attached and the Titans computer would simply "detune" the tune to prevent damage caused by detonation.

This is in not a "bash Stillen" thread and in fact I have a chip on order anyway. I am just trying to verify information so maybe Kyle and anyone else with useful information can post here to settle this once and for all.

Yes it does have a knock/detonation sensor. When towing heavy loads and using lower grade fuels I would always get knocking. As soon as I put premium fuels in I could tow as much as I wanted and wouldnt get a knock. I know that doesnt quite answer your question but I think you dont want to spend the extra $ on fuel with the chip and that is why you are asking is this correct?

[Papa_D]

Actually I always put in 93 anyway to try and influence the computer and get cleaner gas but you never know when it may not be available. Thanks for posting and it is interesting that you still got ping when the computer is supposed to prevent it. BTW I just bought my wife a Tahoe because she wouldn't hear of owning an Armada, lol, glad to see you're still here.

[Helinut1970]

Originally Posted by Papa_D

Actually I always put in 93 anyway to try and influence the computer and get cleaner gas but you never know when it may not be available. Thanks for posting and it is interesting that you still got ping when the computer is supposed to prevent it.

Not only interesting but frustrating! I always used premium and very rarely used reg fuel. Maybe that is why I got the ping. The computer was pissed at me.

[Papa_D]

That is frustrating, maybe the computer just needed more time to adjust.

[Kenny Blankenship]

I was kinda worried about that too. I can't even find anywhere up here that sells anything higher than 91 octane, but hopefully that works. Guess we'll find out once my module ships.....

[Nissanloyalist]

Originally Posted by Papa_D

I'm a little confused as usual. I've read in one thread that the VKPRO requires 91 octane or higher fuel to prevent detonation and engine damage. I read in another thread that the Titan has a detonation sensor and will prevent damage that may be caused by "over tuning" or too low an octane fuel.

Does the Titan have a detonation sensor that will prevent engine damage and if so will the sensor still prevent damage with the VKPRO attached?

If the answer is yes to both of those questions, it would stand to reason that we could run any fuel we wanted even with the module attached and the Titans computer would simply "detune" the tune to prevent damage caused by detonation.

This is in not a "bash Stillen" thread and in fact I have a chip on order anyway. I am just trying to verify information so maybe Kyle and anyone else with useful information can post here to settle this once and for all.

I believe the answer is that with the VKPRO the computer can no longer retard the timing since the VKPRO is controlling things now and this is the worry with lower grade fuels and high rpms under load. But I may be wrong.

[dawgs77]

Kyle claims the VK Pro can read the knock sensor...and if knock is recorded it will go into limp mode per say.

[TitanBlue]

Better to run proper octane and not have any (or significant enough) knock to cause a safety circuit (knock sensor) to have to intervene and then over compensate by retarding timing advance. The knock sensor is a safety, not a tuning device. It is for when the expected results are not achieved.

[armadaman]

with gas prices right now....this mod seems to be at the very back of my list

[CAPTMRGN]

The titan has two knock sensors...one for each bank....I'm gonna read up on this a little more to see if I can understand it better..ok it says the knock sensor retard system is designed only for emergencies. The basic ignition timing is programmed within the anti-knocking zone, if recommended fuel is used under dry conditions. ( 87 is recommended fuel, so stock map is tuned for 87 ) The retard system does not operate under normal driving conditions. If knock is detected a signal is sent to the ECM. The ECM will retard timing to eliminate the knocking condtion. It also talks about during the following conditions the timing ignition is revised by the ECM according to other data stored in the ECM:

startup
warmup
idle
low battery voltage
during acceleration

In the begining it talks about how the ignition timing is controlled by ECM to maintain best air/fuel ratio for every running condition of the engine
the inputs to this system are:

crankshaft position sensor
camshaft position sensor
mass air flow sensor
engine coolant temperature sensor
throttle position sensor
accelerator pedal position sensor
knock sensor
park/nuetral position switch
battery voltage
wheel speed


so it sounds like under accleration the ecu will advance until knock is sensed or baseline map is reached. Now if stillen chip changes the stock map tuned for 91 octane I would think timing would advance a little further until map limit reached or knock detected which would retard timing, since kyle has said they had not removed any safety features from the ECM such as knock sensor retard, high speed limit....etc....

What I really want to know is if the 2* timing advance just adjusts the idle timing or pushes our baseline map up 2*???

And of course all fuels from different companies are different so 91 here may not be 91 there but the knock sensors should protect you from damage

[sudden urge]

It pushes the baseline up 2 degrees, otherwise it would not show any difference in torque at 4000 rpm. There were dynos done the same day, same vehicle, with and without the advance. The advance showed max gains of 14 lbs of torque and 0-2 hp.

[CAPTMRGN]

Ok thanks....thats what I was starting to think...so that would make sense to have it removed before adding the vkpro just to be on the safe side....maybe be able to add it back in after monitoring the engine at +1 and then again at +2