My next door neighbor is the GM of the Nissan Dealership I purchased my Titan from. He sold it to me for invoice. He even let me thumb through his little top secret Nissan printed pricing book over beers one night. Then he explained to me how he still made $700 bucks off me Invoice means squat. Invoice and MSRP are an elaborate gimmick. There are tons of other incentives the manufacturer affords the dealer that ensure they always make something, and usually it is alot more than you think.
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2004 Copper Titan SE
SE Popular: 6 Disc Cd/Bench Seats
Offroad Package
Oh yeah...I am not just speaking of only holdback, but that is part of it. To the salesmen in here; you all seem like a nice bunch and dont take my post harshly. Its sounds like everyone is getting good deals, but there is always a "ROCK BOTTOM" figure. When it comes to purchasing a hot new model, one would expect that supply and demand would factor into not getting a vehicle like a Titan at cost right now.
But lets look at the Frontier.....I originally went looking for a Frontier. I was disgusted with the truck after the test drive. No Power and bumpy as hell. After speaking with people that owned the Frontier and doing some research, I find out that it has other poor qualities (Mechanical problems abound). Consumer Reports tore the thing to shreds. Even the new 05 Frontier will be boasting a 4.0 Liter motor instead of the underpowered 3.3. This is Nissan admitting the truck is WAY undperpowered in itself. But what can you buy a 2004 Frontier for right now? oh lets say what...THOUSANDS under invoice! how so? how is it possible? Wouldnt the dealer go under? Wouldnt the manufacturer? Makes you wonder.
The only way you would ever truly get a vehicle at "Cost" is to get a look into the manufacturers actual cost per vehicle from manufacture to sale. I always wonder just exactly how much a vehicle like a Titan costs to make versus what it sells for.
Again people..dont get me wrong. I love my Titan and am extremely happy with what I paid for it. This thread just made me get all philisophical about it. Plus its 5 in the AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoadmasterC141
My next door neighbor is the GM of the Nissan Dealership I purchased my Titan from. He sold it to me for invoice. He even let me thumb through his little top secret Nissan printed pricing book over beers one night. Then he explained to me how he still made $700 bucks off me Invoice means squat. Invoice and MSRP are an elaborate gimmick. There are tons of other incentives the manufacturer affords the dealer that ensure they always make something, and usually it is alot more than you think.
Supply and demand is a BIG part of why there are no incentives yet. Nissan (and the salespeople and the dealerships) know they have a winner with Titan. Truely, how many of you absolutly would not have bought your truck based on price? I know most of you (judging by your posts) did a ton of research and put on some miles between dealerships looking for the best deal, and that's great! But when you found the best price, and we all know that price was within a small margin of either msrp or list, did that keep you from buying the truck. Few I would doubt walked away from the best deal because you (and I) are passionate about this truck.
Nissan knows that. I don't expect it to change, at least soon. Anyone deal around a Wrangler Rubicon? I have heard of no one comming down from msrp on those things because the salespeople know that Jeep nuts want them, and are willing to pay for them.
Gezon Motors, I know your income is dependant on sales price above invoice, and I wish you the best of luck in your career.
For everyone else:
First, always know invoice price. Be aware, invoice is not REALLY the price that a dealer necessarily pays for a vehicle. Based on volume, customer satisfaction, sales manager's personal relationship with the district sales manager of the manufacturer, floor plan, etc., pricing is negotiable. Never assume that you'll going to get a vehicle BELOW invoice though. Unless you're buying a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry, it probably isn't going to happen without some connections... Also, the dealer is making money with holdback, too. Nissan's is 2% of invoice, plus an additional 1% floorplan allowance.
There are plenty of sites to find invoice price out on. Also, a lot of manufacturer's sites are low listing it, too!
Take invoice and then add whatever you think is FAIR markup on the truck. IMHO $500 is MORE than enough. I usually shoot for $100 and negotiate from there. I refuse, and I mean absolutely REFUSE to pay more than $300 over invoice on a new vehicle. I haven't NOT bought a vehicle yet that I didn't want new.
Make an offer. The worst they can say is no. If they do, call another, and another, and another, and another dealer... If they ALL say no, make a different offer. Maybe $500 over, but a bed extender or whatever you deem acceptable.
A dealer could CARE LESS if you have cash or not. Period... As a matter of fact, they would MUCH rather you finance the vehicle than pay cash.
A common misconception about buying ANY vehicle from a dealership is that if you say it's a "cash" deal, the dealership is somehow going to think you're a God, must be loaded, and royally kiss your a$$. The opposite is true.
Unless you go to your bank, credit union, or whatever and get financing that was arranged by YOU not your dealer, you're dealer's making money off your financing unless you MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that they are not.
Dealers have relationships with banks or manufactures finance companies. Most of the time they will get a commission on the sale of the financing. It's usually between $50 - $100. THEN, they ALSO usually get a BIG commission based on the interest rate they get you to agree to. Never, and I mean NEVER accept the rate that the dealer's finance guy first states you got approved for from the bank. The ONLY exception to this is when the manufacture is running very low interest rates as an incentive. The dealership is adding to the interest rate that the bank approved you for. It is up to your state's laws that will dictate just HOW MUCH they can tack on to the rate. NMAC may approve you for 4.5%, yet your dealer will tell you that you were approved for 5.9%. Guess who gets the additional interest? Yup, YOUR DEALER. There's some formula that's used to determine just how much the bank gives them, but they make commission.
With the truck I just bought, for instance... I was told that I was approved through Nissan for 5.9%, which was their tier 1 rate (best) on the Titans right now due to no financing specials currently being run. I told them that I needed the "buy rate". They were not happy that I even understood that term, the sales manager got a little irritated, but I ended up with 4.04%. Umm, that makes a big difference...
Many of you guys make it too difficult to buy a vehicle. Sheesh. Just set a price you're willing to pay and tell the dealer what that price is. If they say no, try someone else... Don't make it harder than it is... Haggling back and forth with a sales manager is just ridiculous. Agree on a price. If you want an extended warranty, tell them you want it AT COST, but AFTER you get the vehicle price set. If they tell you that they don't make money on extended warranties, call their bluff, don't be afraid to tell them you know otherwise, and ask to see the finance guy's price sheet for the DEALER from the warranty provider. They'll more than likely say, "Well, we never do this, but we'll lose some money on it." Or, some BS like that... If you can't get it at cost, tack $100 on as profit. They either take the $100 or nothing... Their choice..
Also, if you are trading a vehicle in, before you even START to talk about the price of a new vehicle ask them for "ACV" of your trade. That's Actual Cash Value. THAT is the figure you can shop around for. Be prepared, it'll be a slap in the face, but like with everything else, it's NEGOTIABLE! The dealer originally told me ACV of my '02 Pathfinder was $16,900. I walked out of there with an ACV of $18,500.
*EDIT*
Oh, and one more thing... For the best price, buy from inventory and buy the last day or two of the month. That's not an old wive's tale. The last day of the month the dealership needs to file his sales report with the regional sales manager of the manufacturer... If they're behind on sales they're looking to move more units in a hurry... Plus, they're about to make another month's payment on the truck if they don't move it...
I was just wondering what would be a good price out the door? Thanks
But lets look at the Frontier.....I originally went looking for a Frontier. I was disgusted with the truck after the test drive. No Power and bumpy as hell. After speaking with people that owned the Frontier and doing some research, I find out that it has other poor qualities (Mechanical problems abound). Consumer Reports tore the thing to shreds. Even the new 05 Frontier will be boasting a 4.0 Liter motor instead of the underpowered 3.3. This is Nissan admitting the truck is WAY undperpowered in itself....
Sorry, I have to disagree with your assessment of the Frontier. I had one for four years and it was not underpowered - I pulled 5000lbs many times with no problems. I never had any mechanical problems at all. My trade-in value (which matched the black book value) was great. In most publications I have read, they give great reviews of the Frontier. I have never had any faith in CR after I saw how people answer. I also found the ride to be very good compared to its competition. I also know personally three other poeple who have Frontiers of different years and they have had the same experience as me.
The 3.3l engine is rock solid and proven.
All this being said, everyone is entitled to their opinions, these are mine and I just wanted to defend my old Fronty!
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Titan CC LE 4x4 Sparkle Red Bug Guard and every option except off-road, DVD, Sunroof & Nav.
Add ons: Sliding bed extender, Leer 180 cap, BFG KO's
Just passed the 57,000km mark!
Born on 03/04
Now it is up for sale - or at least the BFGs and the Cap!
Oh yeah...I am not just speaking of only holdback, but that is part of it. To the salesmen in here; you all seem like a nice bunch and dont take my post harshly. Its sounds like everyone is getting good deals, but there is always a "ROCK BOTTOM" figure. When it comes to purchasing a hot new model, one would expect that supply and demand would factor into not getting a vehicle like a Titan at cost right now.
But lets look at the Frontier.....I originally went looking for a Frontier. I was disgusted with the truck after the test drive. No Power and bumpy as hell. After speaking with people that owned the Frontier and doing some research, I find out that it has other poor qualities (Mechanical problems abound). Consumer Reports tore the thing to shreds. Even the new 05 Frontier will be boasting a 4.0 Liter motor instead of the underpowered 3.3. This is Nissan admitting the truck is WAY undperpowered in itself. But what can you buy a 2004 Frontier for right now? oh lets say what...THOUSANDS under invoice! how so? how is it possible? Wouldnt the dealer go under? Wouldnt the manufacturer? Makes you wonder.
The only way you would ever truly get a vehicle at "Cost" is to get a look into the manufacturers actual cost per vehicle from manufacture to sale. I always wonder just exactly how much a vehicle like a Titan costs to make versus what it sells for.
Again people..dont get me wrong. I love my Titan and am extremely happy with what I paid for it. This thread just made me get all philisophical about it. Plus its 5 in the AM
The Titan and the Frontier are different for a good reason. SO are the buyers for them. The Frontier has been a great truck for us, I'm not sure about those mechanical issues you are talking about. But as far as pricing, are you saying that it is unfair for the dealer to make money on sales? Again, invoice is not a gimmick. It IS A NEW, HOT, TRUCK! And I am not going to get started on this again. I just don't like that people are posting on here with inaccurate information. For anyone looking to buy a new Titan, ignore these under invoice type ideas. Get a good price at a dealership that treats you the way you want to be treated and enjoy the truck. You will not get one at under invoice. Don't try to figure out how to get one at what the dealer paid for it. If you could, Nissan would sell them directly to you. Rebates on the Frontier have NOTHING to do with the Titan. If you want those rebates, buy a Frontier. Chryslers rebates DO NOT APPLY TO NISSAN! Nor do any other manufacturers. Compare apples to apples! A Silverado IS NOT A TITAN! They are not priced the same way! The dealer WILL make money on you. THAT IS BUSINESS! Be realistic, get a fair price, enjoy the Titan and enjoy the look of envy you get from other truck owners. Why is this such an issue? I am not saying pay more than sticker. But it IS worth what the sticker says. If you get a discount, good! Shop around if you like! Get a good price, but DON'T EXPECT the dealer to sell it for under invoice!!! "ROCK BOTTOM" is something alcoholics hit, not dealerships. If you are going to go for jargon like that. For those of you not saying to get it for or under invoice, this is not for you. For those who do think that way, this is for you. As Boss said, a stripped down XE, yeah, maybe $300-$500 over invoice is acceptable. But an LE with Navigation and DVD is NOT going to sell for that little. There are alot of variables here. Think about them when you are trying to do your math. There, I beat the dead horse. Take care guys and gals.
Last edited by GezonMotors : 02-25-2004 at 08:58 AM.
I was told that the Valet Key not only prevents others from getting inside ur glove box/console, but if the Valet decides to steal the car then after so many cranks (I was told 10) then the engine won't start with that particular key anymore. Only a regular key can make the engine re-start....I haven't tried this yet, but this is what I was told.
I looked into that when I saw this post and (Not that I can't be wrong) but I have found no instance of that being the case. But it won't unlock everything the regular keys will. Hope this is helpful.
I went to the two local dealers and both had only SEs and LEs, and one had one XE but it was 4WD. We went to a big dealer an hour out of town that had a lot more inventory and found exactly what we wanted. No huge addendum amount, we didn't get raped too bad on trade in, and they threw in a receiver hitch.
I was told that the Valet Key not only prevents others from getting inside ur glove box/console, but if the Valet decides to steal the car then after so many cranks (I was told 10) then the engine won't start with that particular key anymore. Only a regular key can make the engine re-start....I haven't tried this yet, but this is what I was told.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GezonMotors
I looked into that when I saw this post and (Not that I can't be wrong) but I have found no instance of that being the case. But it won't unlock everything the regular keys will. Hope this is helpful.
If that IS the case then you would have to spend $80 every 10 times you valet park just to get a new key.
I would think it would make more sense to have the key disabled after 10 times and then it would require the real key to be used again to allow the valet key to work.
__________________
Roy Rumaner
Fully Loaded 2004 Smoke LE 4x4
For those of you after some useful information on this topic check out fightingchance.com. I bought this package for $35 and the information is realistic, eye-opening, and above all true. Their fax attack theory in short does two things:
1. It keeps you out of the dealership until it's time to sign papers (very important). This distances you from pressure applied by a salesperson and the emotion of wanting that truck immediately.
2. It creates a competitive environment amongst dealers for your business. Briefly it states that we as consumers could not possibly know how desperate any one dealer is to sell a car in any one day. EVERY dealer will be willing to take a few slim profit deals a month. How will you know which one it is unless you ask more than one (15-20 preferably).
I take delivery of my Titan in early March. When the dealing is done I'll post up dealership and details.
For those of you after some useful information on this topic check out fightingchance.com. I bought this package for $35 and the information is realistic, eye-opening, and above all true. Their fax attack theory in short does two things:
1. It keeps you out of the dealership until it's time to sign papers (very important). This distances you from pressure applied by a salesperson and the emotion of wanting that truck immediately.
2. It creates a competitive environment amongst dealers for your business. Briefly it states that we as consumers could not possibly know how desperate any one dealer is to sell a car in any one day. EVERY dealer will be willing to take a few slim profit deals a month. How will you know which one it is unless you ask more than one (15-20 preferably).
I take delivery of my Titan in early March. When the dealing is done I'll post up dealership and details.
I agree. Following the advice given in the package from Fighting Chance is probably your very best strategy for getting a good deal. Unfortunately there's no source there for Canadian invoice pricing. Does anyone know of a Canadian invoice price source?
Generally speaking, wouldn't placing a factory order enable a slightly better deal than buying from existing inventory? That way the dealer gets his entire holdback from the manufacturer while not having to spend any of the associated expenses. Not to menion, you get exactly the vehicle you want.
...Generally speaking, wouldn't placing a factory order enable a slightly better deal than buying from existing inventory? That way the dealer gets his entire holdback from the manufacturer while not having to spend any of the associated expenses. Not to menion, you get exactly the vehicle you want.
That would probably only work at dealerships that can order as many Titans as they want. There is no dealer anywhere close to me that can order more than 1 or 2 a month. Maybe some in Toronto, but i don't know.
I ordered mine, but I was just taking away a future sale from them so it doesn't give them much incentive to deal; but I am happy with what I paid.
It can also work in the opposite direction...if they have a lot of Titan inventory on the lot, they would probably deal better on those to get them off the inventory sheets rather than put another on.
I'll chime in with my experience purchasing a Titan. I did it mostly all by email. I did my homework upfront and knew invoice price & approximate holdback amounts. I then sent a very nice email to a bunch of dealers explaining that I know my stuff, I know they need to make a profit and to provide me their most competitive price. I explained I was sending this email to many dealers. A few didnt respond at all. The first came back with 3% over invoice and did a professional and honest job explaining his position. I had a number of friendly and humerous emails back and forth with him. A second replied with a poorly written email but wanted $500 over invoice. I asked the first dealer to match and he did. I liked his attitude, at least in email, so I purchased from him. One trip to the dealer and I was done quickly. I felt $500 over invoice for an SE KC factory ordered with the options I want was very reasonable. Yeah, I know he saved some money because he wasnt paying interest on the truck for a few months while it sat on the lot, I can live with that. So he probably made about $1050 on the truck in total. Thats 3.7% of the purchase price which I think is reasonable. Believe me, I don't like most dealers, but they have to pay the bills too. For this truck, I did not go in with any expectation to buy below invoice. For some other vehicle, maybe I would. Could I have haggled and saved a couple hundred, maybe, but it just wasn't worth it to me. I'm happy, the dealers happy. Lifes short, enjoy it.
That would probably only work at dealerships that can order as many Titans as they want. There is no dealer anywhere close to me that can order more than 1 or 2 a month. Maybe some in Toronto, but i don't know.
I ordered mine, but I was just taking away a future sale from them so it doesn't give them much incentive to deal; but I am happy with what I paid.
It can also work in the opposite direction...if they have a lot of Titan inventory on the lot, they would probably deal better on those to get them off the inventory sheets rather than put another on.
Ah, that's a very good point. I guess my strategy doesn't work well for a vehicle in short supply.
I expect to be in a bit of an awkward position when I place an order for a 2005 in August since it may be difficult at that time to find Canadian invoice pricing on the new model year. Hopefully it will not increase, and given the major anticipated increase in fuel costs this year I suspect it may even decrease or factory incentives ensue.
I have to agree and disagree with all the post but, yes I do have a bottom line opinion. I will be picking mine up tomorrow. My dealer has been great to work with as I am a very strong willed woman and want my truck done and delivered they way we have all agreed on. I won’t go into that but I have read all the posts and thank 70Boss first for all the help. You have been fantastic. If you were closer I would buy from you in a second!! I also thank Gezomn Motors for very frank and very honest comments. Motorman you had great posts also. This site is not about who got the best deal, how can we screw each other it is really about how all of us love this truck. Some will get great deals, some good, some not so good and some will walk out. The thing we all need to understand that we are all in business for ourselves. We want the best deal, we deserve the best deal. That is human nature. I am willing to pay what I think is fair to my dealership and do not want to get into their business. I am not a car dealer but I have done my research and feel I am prepared to go in. make the deal, and drive home in the truck I ordered and decided it was worth the money. For those that got the best deal great but I will be happy that I drove away with a great truck and I deal I FELT was good. This is a great website with great people and ideas. To my best buddy Deepwater you know I still believe in the interior issue HA HA
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2004 SE 4x4 Titan CC
SE Popular package
Utility Bed Package
Off-Road Package
Sliding Bed Extender
Yes a blonde
Last edited by static101 : 02-26-2004 at 04:39 AM.
02-25-2004, 01:38 AM
Invoice means squat. Invoice and MSRP are an elaborate gimmick. There are tons of other incentives the manufacturer affords the dealer that ensure they always make something, and usually it is alot more than you think.
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