For those looking to get good information about what you should pay for your new Titan, go to kbb.com (kelly blue book). Click "build a car" on the left frame, and price out your Titan. Make sure you turn off any popup blocking software, as it is part of the site's engine for calculating prices. You should be able to find out exactly what invoice price is. Frankly, there's no reason to pay any more than 3-400 over invoice these days.
Originally posted by Half Shovel For those looking to get good information about what you should pay for your new Titan, go to kbb.com (kelly blue book). Click "build a car" on the left frame, and price out your Titan. Make sure you turn off any popup blocking software, as it is part of the site's engine for calculating prices. You should be able to find out exactly what invoice price is. Frankly, there's no reason to pay any more than 3-400 over invoice these days.
Thanks for that.
International Autosource also provides a very good pricing engine from Chrome Data go here click on the left "Vehicle Specification and Prices".
Wait for the new page and click on "Vehicle Pricing". You now have a link to Chrome Data. At the moment it defaults to 2003 set up the year for 2004 then click on the make you want to price. You now pick the model and style. Build the vehicle you want and it will give you invoice and MSRP pricing.
Frankly, you guys are going to crucify me for saying this because I sell them, but where do you get your numbers from? 3-400 above invoice!? If you don't like the Titan, just say so. I know I wouldn't walk around telling everyone my new truck is't worth even close to what they charge. Why not tell everyone it's a cheap piece of **** too? You guys are never happy. It's better in just about every way than the competiton, ALREADY COSTS LESS, and hold it's value MUCH BETTER and you're sying it's not worth what Nissan says it is? Come on. Get a good deal, but that figure is stupid. People that think that way are the reason a brand name loses value. If you're so cheap, why don't you go for the rebates of a domestic? Oh wait, it's because they aren't as good, they depreciate too fast and they start off over priced. Stop being silly and enjoy the Titan for the good truck it is.
One more thing. Where do you plan on buying your new car? If dealers can't make any money on them, they won't be in business anymore. Starting to see how silly this is? Imagine if your boss or customers said that you weren't worth more than a few bucks an hour... Doesn't make sense does it? Gee, I wonder why all the American jobs are going to MEXICO?!?! Like that trend? Keep forcing lower profits. See how stupid that thinking is yet? So yes, I guess you could say that good ole' American greed is pissing me off a bit. It's only my livelyhood. Notice I never said to pay sticker. I just said it's WORTH sticker. I said get a good REALISTIC deal. I'm done. Filet me I guess.
The good stuff is that yes, it does pay to do your research on vehicle invoice prices etc. This gives you a baseline figure for negotiating. Remember, it IS up to the dealer whether or not to sell you a car.
As for the other side presented by our sales associate that posted. Yes, business have to make money make no mistake. However, you know as well as I do that there are quite a few dealerships out there that have a statement such as "If we are not making XXXX number of dollars off a cash deal then no sale...IF they have a trade-In then the number XXXX applies".
The bottom line is buying a car is a negotiation. If a dealer wants to be stubborn and not give you XXXX for your trade or not come down on the price, you as the consumer have the ability to go elsewhere.
Dealers on the other hand live and die by reputation. IF they want a good one, they evaluate the deal not only in terms of numbers but in terms of 'how many other people can this person bring me' or 'What is our sales target for this month overall and for this specific model" and "What incentives is coperate offering me to move XX number of XX vehicle" etc.
Bottom line, there are two sides to the game. To win the game, both sides will compromise to a 'solution'. IF a compromise can't or won't be made...end game...move on to another dealer or customer.
Also....don't even bring up 'RESALE VALUE' because that is a myth. Value is determined by what someone is willing to pay for something. Someone who trades in cars in three years or less always ends up on the bottom side of a 'Resale Value' so this isn't even a good point unless you plan to sell it yourself and you might get wholesale book in most cases. I will give you a perfect example: 99.5 Nissan Pathfinder w/89k - Full Service records and not a scratch with brand new rubber etc. KBB and all the others list the 'Wholesale Value' as $13,800 in my region. I literally had to pull teeth to get $11,500 for the vehicle
using it as a trade-in..(Best price between 4 different dealers)..Why? Dealer greed and thier so called 'Black Book'. Argue all you like, but facts are facts.
The whole buying process is a numbers game....make the numbers appealing to both sides and a car is sold.
Chris
__________________ In Loving Memory of Chris King
Last edited by CaliforniaTitan : 02-12-2004 at 10:21 AM.
One more thing. Where do you plan on buying your new car? If dealers can't make any money on them, they won't be in business anymore. Starting to see how silly this is? Imagine if your boss or customers said that you weren't worth more than a few bucks an hour... Doesn't make sense does it? Gee, I wonder why all the American jobs are going to MEXICO?!?! Like that trend? Keep forcing lower profits. See how stupid that thinking is yet? So yes, I guess you could say that good ole' American greed is pissing me off a bit. It's only my livelyhood. Notice I never said to pay sticker. I just said it's WORTH sticker. I said get a good REALISTIC deal. I'm done. Filet me I guess.
yes the truck is worth msrp and i got my truck for what i would have paid for a domestic, except dodge, they give those away. i was used to getting invoice on other vehicles and i thought i should on this one to. i see where you are coming from i just went in thinking invoice and only walked away at 1800 under msrp. so i was quite bummed but life goes on. so everyone enjoy thier titan because the way i looked at it is i could not have bought a comparABLE VEHICLE ANY CHEAPER. but i still want my dam coin tray lol lol.
I don't think you're going to increase your business with that kind of talk! haha
OK, let's say 3-400 may be a little low. But honestly, why go through all the haggling for hours just to have me walk out on you. Now we've both waisted a lot of our time. Me not getting what I want; and you not making any money. I'd be much more happier if I can just walk in, say that I'm willing to pay 500 over invoice, you agree, we sign the papers, and we're done! I get the vehicle I want at what I consider a fair price, and you make a sale in about an hours time or so.
Maybe I don't understand the business from your side, but it just seems like it would be easy to me if that was a dealers philosophy. Or is that not "realistic"???
If jobs are "going to Mexico" and "dealers are going out of business" then maybe it's time to start looking at the business model...instead of looking for sympathy from the consumer.
I don't think you're going to increase your business with that kind of talk! haha
OK, let's say 3-400 may be a little low. But honestly, why go through all the haggling for hours just to have me walk out on you. Now we've both waisted a lot of our time. Me not getting what I want; and you not making any money. I'd be much more happier if I can just walk in, say that I'm willing to pay 500 over invoice, you agree, we sign the papers, and we're done! I get the vehicle I want at what I consider a fair price, and you make a sale in about an hours time or so.
Maybe I don't understand the business from your side, but it just seems like it would be easy to me if that was a dealers philosophy. Or is that not "realistic"???
I don't think 3-400 is a "bit low". I paid 500 over invoice, and I KNOW I could have done better, I just wasn't in the mood to play "a$$hole buyer". Also, the dealership has been very helpful, and I don't mind giving a bit for good help.
Please anwer a couple questions for me. What is the dealer holdback or incentive from the factory for every unit sold? Is it 1-5% or is it a set dollar amount on each unit or does it depend on the model? So, with the factory incentive to the dealer if a dealer sells a car at invoice they are still making a profit, maybe not enough to cover all expenses but they don't sell every car at invoice either.
Also, why do sales people and sales managers play such games with buyers? It seems like they either hard sell with relentless tactics or soft sell with subtle and sometimes equally annoying tactics. If your trying to change the system start with your end and the consumer will follow like someone else recommended $500 over invoice, no other b.s. fee's. As it is now the consumer has had to learn the dealers system and play a negotiation game to get what they want.
As earlier stated a dealers not going to sell a car for less than he wants to and consumers shouldn't have to pay more than they want to.
Gezon Motors, I know your income is dependant on sales price above invoice, and I wish you the best of luck in your career.
For everyone else:
First, always know invoice price. Be aware, invoice is not REALLY the price that a dealer necessarily pays for a vehicle. Based on volume, customer satisfaction, sales manager's personal relationship with the district sales manager of the manufacturer, floor plan, etc., pricing is negotiable. Never assume that you'll going to get a vehicle BELOW invoice though. Unless you're buying a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry, it probably isn't going to happen without some connections... Also, the dealer is making money with holdback, too. Nissan's is 2% of invoice, plus an additional 1% floorplan allowance.
There are plenty of sites to find invoice price out on. Also, a lot of manufacturer's sites are low listing it, too!
Take invoice and then add whatever you think is FAIR markup on the truck. IMHO $500 is MORE than enough. I usually shoot for $100 and negotiate from there. I refuse, and I mean absolutely REFUSE to pay more than $300 over invoice on a new vehicle. I haven't NOT bought a vehicle yet that I didn't want new.
Make an offer. The worst they can say is no. If they do, call another, and another, and another, and another dealer... If they ALL say no, make a different offer. Maybe $500 over, but a bed extender or whatever you deem acceptable.
A dealer could CARE LESS if you have cash or not. Period... As a matter of fact, they would MUCH rather you finance the vehicle than pay cash.
A common misconception about buying ANY vehicle from a dealership is that if you say it's a "cash" deal, the dealership is somehow going to think you're a God, must be loaded, and royally kiss your a$$. The opposite is true.
Unless you go to your bank, credit union, or whatever and get financing that was arranged by YOU not your dealer, you're dealer's making money off your financing unless you MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that they are not.
Dealers have relationships with banks or manufactures finance companies. Most of the time they will get a commission on the sale of the financing. It's usually between $50 - $100. THEN, they ALSO usually get a BIG commission based on the interest rate they get you to agree to. Never, and I mean NEVER accept the rate that the dealer's finance guy first states you got approved for from the bank. The ONLY exception to this is when the manufacture is running very low interest rates as an incentive. The dealership is adding to the interest rate that the bank approved you for. It is up to your state's laws that will dictate just HOW MUCH they can tack on to the rate. NMAC may approve you for 4.5%, yet your dealer will tell you that you were approved for 5.9%. Guess who gets the additional interest? Yup, YOUR DEALER. There's some formula that's used to determine just how much the bank gives them, but they make commission.
With the truck I just bought, for instance... I was told that I was approved through Nissan for 5.9%, which was their tier 1 rate (best) on the Titans right now due to no financing specials currently being run. I told them that I needed the "buy rate". They were not happy that I even understood that term, the sales manager got a little irritated, but I ended up with 4.04%. Umm, that makes a big difference...
Many of you guys make it too difficult to buy a vehicle. Sheesh. Just set a price you're willing to pay and tell the dealer what that price is. If they say no, try someone else... Don't make it harder than it is... Haggling back and forth with a sales manager is just ridiculous. Agree on a price. If you want an extended warranty, tell them you want it AT COST, but AFTER you get the vehicle price set. If they tell you that they don't make money on extended warranties, call their bluff, don't be afraid to tell them you know otherwise, and ask to see the finance guy's price sheet for the DEALER from the warranty provider. They'll more than likely say, "Well, we never do this, but we'll lose some money on it." Or, some BS like that... If you can't get it at cost, tack $100 on as profit. They either take the $100 or nothing... Their choice..
Also, if you are trading a vehicle in, before you even START to talk about the price of a new vehicle ask them for "ACV" of your trade. That's Actual Cash Value. THAT is the figure you can shop around for. Be prepared, it'll be a slap in the face, but like with everything else, it's NEGOTIABLE! The dealer originally told me ACV of my '02 Pathfinder was $16,900. I walked out of there with an ACV of $18,500.
*EDIT*
Oh, and one more thing... For the best price, buy from inventory and buy the last day or two of the month. That's not an old wive's tale. The last day of the month the dealership needs to file his sales report with the regional sales manager of the manufacturer... If they're behind on sales they're looking to move more units in a hurry... Plus, they're about to make another month's payment on the truck if they don't move it...
I don't like to play games.. I went to a fixed price dealer in Poway, CA. On Dec 19th they were giving $1000 off of MSRP. It is not my place to tell people how much profit they should make. I wanted the Titan. They had the right model, I was happy with the price, there was no negotiation, the floor manager went to KBB.com and showed me what my trade was worth and we were done. No finance room, no endless pleas for add-ons. All of the add-ons were presented by the sales dude and were deeply discounted from MSRP. I was introduced to the parts manager who gave me a discount card. I was introduced to the service guy. I left.. Simple as that. Is that worth 8 hours of high stress haggling and getting pissed off. Not for me! Could I have saved money, sure. I don't need aggravation in my life. I got a really nice Titan, they made a profit. They want to do business with me in the future and they show it.
Decide what it "fair". Hell if it is a premium car it is worth a few extra.
Present this to the dealer and ask if he wants to sell the car.
(I have yet to have them say no.)
Sell trade in on your own.
If there is any problem, take the printed price back and say "You know if selling this car for that price is going to make you bankrupt, I guess I will have to see if xxxxx wants my money." Walk away! Make them stop you.
If jobs are "going to Mexico" and "dealers are going out of business" then maybe it's time to start looking at the business model...instead of looking for sympathy from the consumer.
Welcome to the world of capitalism...
Excellent point. I guess I find this exceptionally interesting considering I just took a Principles of Investments exam an hour ago and am a Finance major. The more I learn about the economics of our market, the more I realize it only truly benefits those who take the time to learn it.
01-07-2004, 04:53 PM
In Loving Memory of Chris King
Excellent point. I guess I find this exceptionally interesting considering I just took a Principles of Investments exam an hour ago and am a Finance major. The more I learn about the economics of our market, the more I realize it only truly benefits those who take the time to learn it.
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