Front suspension point to ponder...

pisswilly · 05-28-2005, 09:30 AM

First some facts from this board...
Stock shocks are bad.....
Front end sits too low.....
BUT we have options!!
We can use PRG's leveling kit (overall good rating)
We can use the Daystar type kit (overall BAD rating)

Now for the point to ponder......
Let's assume this is for the weekend warrior with a typical offroad excursion on our national forest type logging road..NOT a desert racer or hardcore offroader who would need something like a FOX or Donahoe coil-over...OK?

Rancho has a product called Triple-X which is nothing more then a RS9000 with a threaded body which allows you to use your factory spring and compress it between some spring mounts via a threaded collar. This can give 0 - 2.5" leveling action.

Rancho also has the RS9000X version which is a spring mount shock absorber meaning it is a direct bolt in replacement shock based off the RS9000 design also. This shock has a welded on spring mount which provided zero leveling ability over stock.

OK here we go.....assuming anyone who would get the Triple-X is going to adjust them pretty much to the max to level their trucks, what would be wrong with just getting the RS9000X version and using the Daystar kit to achieve the SAME EXACT THING????

REALLY thnk about it..... both units use the factory spring....both are the same shock absorber..... One has a threaded collar that compresses the spring for preload, the other would just use the Daystar donut!! What would be wrong with this approach?

I really had my heart set on the complete RANCHO system to incude the in-cab remote control and the whole nine yards. The Triple-x and the RS9000x are the same shock. Just different means of getting the level right???

Your thoughts?????

bestatchess · 05-28-2005, 09:52 AM

swarren1 called my attention to this post:

http://www.titantalk.com/forums/show...6&postcount=20

pisswilly · 05-28-2005, 10:00 AM

Weekend warrior not desert racing folks..... NO QUESTION the fox's and others of the type are better quality....not even a comparison...

The question is what exactly is the difference????

NorCal 4x4 · 05-28-2005, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisswilly

Weekend warrior not desert racing folks..... NO QUESTION the fox's and others of the type are better quality....not even a comparison...

The question is what exactly is the difference????

Most importantly the spring isn't preloaded with PRG's coil-overs. They have a new spring and are a total bolt-in product.

To use a design that preloads the spring like the Daystar Leveling kit does, (which from your description, sounds like the Ranchos do), is asking for the same problems that the Daystar causes. [Search in this Forum on Daystar]

ensclark · 05-28-2005, 10:33 AM

I'm sure the tripX has the extra lenght to keep them from blowing like the stock does with the daystar. That is why PRG's level kit and the one I have from NitrousEnterprises keeps the lift on top of the shock plate. It keeps the same overall movement of the shock the same. I would think the stock replacement would not have the same extension as the tripX since it is not set up for the extension. If your going to go with rancho, get the tripX so you have the option rather than try and work it out later. Or just get the level kit that goes over the plate.

K-MU · 05-28-2005, 12:16 PM

Are this Rancho XXX shocks out yet? Are the only for the Titans or would the be available for every other truck out there?

pisswilly · 05-28-2005, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarren1

Most importantly the spring isn't preloaded with PRG's coil-overs. They have a new spring and are a total bolt-in product.

To use a design that preloads the spring like the Daystar Leveling kit does, (which from your description, sounds like the Ranchos do), is asking for the same problems that the Daystar causes. [Search in this Forum on Daystar]

Correct they are different coils....BUT what is the difference??? Are the coils two inches longer? I doubt it....There is three ways to achieve lift via coil springs....they either have to be longer, stiffer, or preloaded so with the Fox solution which is it??

I am very familiar with the Daystar kits and personally I think they perhaps got a bad reputation from people whom tried desert racing with a stock shock spring and Daystar and destroyed the shocks. For a Daily driver with an occasional offroad excursion I would not be worried ONE BIT with this means of leveling off the ride. This method of achieving lift has been around A LONG TIME and I doubt a comany the size of Daystar would exist if there weren't MANY happy customers.....

pisswilly · 05-28-2005, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-MU

Are this Rancho XXX shocks out yet? Are the only for the Titans or would the be available for every other truck out there?

Not out yet PERIOD.....they have great aspirations to supply these for many popular SUV's and Trucks but can't seem to get them on the market...?

NorCal 4x4 · 05-28-2005, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisswilly

Correct they are different coils....BUT what is the difference??? Are the coils two inches longer? I doubt it....There is three ways to achieve lift via coil springs....they either have to be longer, stiffer, or preloaded so with the Fox solution which is it??

I am very familiar with the Daystar kits and personally I think they perhaps got a bad reputation from people whom tried desert racing with a stock shock spring and Daystar and destroyed the shocks. For a Daily driver with an occasional offroad excursion I would not be worried ONE BIT with this means of leveling off the ride. This method of achieving lift has been around A LONG TIME and I doubt a comany the size of Daystar would exist if there weren't MANY happy customers.....

First off, if you want to know what springs Greg is using, PM him.

But if what you are saying about the three ways to lift with springs is true, we can eliminate the third one right off the bat, (preloading). Then assuming you're correct about a longer spring being unlikely, then you answered your own question.

As far as preloading coils on the Titans, like I said do a search on this forum on Daystar. The clunking and blown shocks are not an isolated problem. On Titans, the members that have not had issues with Daystar, CST, Rough Country, or any of the other leveling kits that utilize preloading, are the minority. I would suspect this is also why you can't get the Ranchos. I remember back in the fall people were saying, Rancho c.o. will be available by Christmas. Humbug

Also if you're "not ... worried ONE BIT with this means of leveling off the ride"? Then why did you start a thread and ask for input - "Your thoughts?????"

Anyway, do what you want, but at least you have some more time to investigate this before you purchase, since the Ranchos aren't available once again.

pisswilly · 05-28-2005, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarren1

First off, if you want to know what springs Greg is using, PM him.

But if what you are saying about the three ways to lift with springs is true, we can eliminate the third one right off the bat, (preloading). Then assuming you're correct about a longer spring being unlikely, then you answered your own question.

As far as preloading coils on the Titans, like I said do a search on this forum on Daystar. The clunking and blown shocks are not an isolated problem. On Titans, the members that have not had issues with Daystar, CST, Rough Country, or any of the other leveling kits that utilize preloading, are the minority. I would suspect this is also why you can't get the Ranchos. I remember back in the fall people were saying, Rancho c.o. will be available by Christmas. Humbug

Also if you're "not ... worried ONE BIT with this means of leveling off the ride"? Then why did you start a thread and ask for input - "Your thoughts?????"

Anyway, do what you want, but at least you have some more time to investigate this before you purchase, since the Ranchos aren't available once again.

That's my whole point about the leveling issue. If Rancho themselves are going to just preload the spring via a threaded collar why not just get the RS9000X and install an internal spacer to do the same thing?

From what I have seen of PRG's merchandise as well as Fox etc, I would reckon a bet it is a slightly longer coil and slightly stiffer. The coils in the Titan are already pretty stiff. I remember PRG referencing how stiff the Titan coils were about a year ago...one of the reasons coil-overs are hard to come by I suppose. I have Checked Sway-Aways website and did my best with their online calculators several times to try and find a coil and they dont even list anything CLOSE to what the Titan comes with stock!!!

If the Fox coil-overs will not rattle my back teeth loose on the road that is probably the way I will go.....I am just a little hesitant to throw out over a grand for something that I might not like...I do mostly highway driving with an occasional camping trip into the national forest. The drooped front on these trucks is just pathetic....

I have an 05' coming in about a week my 04 is gone so I want to get it right the first time without having to look back....

ensclark · 05-28-2005, 06:30 PM

I think your looking at the coil when you should be looking at the shock it's self. The reason the stock shock was having problems was that with the daystar type lift it was pushing down farther than the shock was made for and blowing the ring. This is why PRG's level kit works. It does not force the shock to go any more than what it was made to do. Now with the new ones that are comming out, If the coil is two inches longer or it has a way to screw down and push the shock farther out of the spring the shock is still able to go the full extension it was made to do, since it was made to do it. If you don't want to go through the trouble and want a good everyday level/lift get the spacer that goes over the shock plate do you don't have to change anything else out. Or I have the 3 inch lift from Nitrousenterprises that I have gone on trails with and throught some mud and it works great. I don't have any problems at all with it. Mine was less than 400 bucks.

NorCal 4x4 · 05-28-2005, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pisswilly

That's my whole point about the leveling issue. If Rancho themselves are going to just preload the spring via a threaded collar why not just get the RS9000X and install an internal spacer to do the same thing?

From what I have seen of PRG's merchandise as well as Fox etc, I would reckon a bet it is a slightly longer coil and slightly stiffer. The coils in the Titan are already pretty stiff. I remember PRG referencing how stiff the Titan coils were about a year ago...one of the reasons coil-overs are hard to come by I suppose. I have Checked Sway-Aways website and did my best with their online calculators several times to try and find a coil and they dont even list anything CLOSE to what the Titan comes with stock!!!

If the Fox coil-overs will not rattle my back teeth loose on the road that is probably the way I will go.....I am just a little hesitant to throw out over a grand for something that I might not like...I do mostly highway driving with an occasional camping trip into the national forest. The drooped front on these trucks is just pathetic....

I have an 05' coming in about a week my 04 is gone so I want to get it right the first time without having to look back....

I think if you express your concerns about the race shocks to Greg via a PM, (or if he sees this post), he will set your mind to ease about them.

In another thread on the Ranchos a while back, "rs9000 triple x shock", PrerunnerGreg said: ..."As for the ride using a race-quaility shock, the best part is that they are vavled very soft initially, to give a very compliant ride, but the shock can handle the biggest hits and NOT blow through its travel because of its large displacement. The ride quaility is generally much better with a larger shock."

Before August I hope to at least get some of his coil-overs, rear Bilstein or fox shocks, and his rear spring upgrade. I'll let everyone know what I think about them for sure - both on and off-road.

PrerunnerGreg · 05-28-2005, 07:33 PM

I have seen the New Rancho XXX on a titan, the shocks are the same lenght as stock, again, limited extension travel. And yes, the threaded collar on thoese shocks works just like the preload racho leveling kit. I recently got a chance to put a bunch of different titan springs and strut assemblys on a spring check machine. the rate of the 2wd coils is 550 the 4wd is only 600, i had though it was much higher. But, heres the kicker, the O/R shock has over 1600 lbs of preload already, ouch, now add the daystar spacer and you can see failure happening. The replacement shock im working on will be much longer than the factory shock and "preload" will NOT affect the shock topping or bottoming out. And will allow as much travel as the frame will permit. This kit will use the factory coil though and a Bilstien shock, it should sell for around $400-500. Also, if you buy anything through me, i will guarantee your satifaction, if you arent happy with a product i sell, i will give you your money back.

pisswilly · 05-28-2005, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrerunnerGreg

I have seen the New Rancho XXX on a titan, the shocks are the same lenght as stock, again, limited extension travel. And yes, the threaded collar on thoese shocks works just like the preload racho leveling kit. I recently got a chance to put a bunch of different titan springs and strut assemblys on a spring check machine. the rate of the 2wd coils is 550 the 4wd is only 600, i had though it was much higher. But, heres the kicker, the O/R shock has over 1600 lbs of preload already, ouch, now add the daystar spacer and you can see failure happening. The replacement shock im working on will be much longer than the factory shock and "preload" will NOT affect the shock topping or bottoming out. And will allow as much travel as the frame will permit. This kit will use the factory coil though and a Bilstien shock, it should sell for around $400-500. Also, if you buy anything through me, i will guarantee your satifaction, if you arent happy with a product i sell, i will give you your money back.

PM me the price for a set of Fox setups and a good description of how they ride....I dont want them too stiff. I want a level truck w/o spacers etc....

Thanks Greg...