Bracket lift or spindle/coilover combo

Pepst · 08-06-2007, 10:24 PM

Hey everyone, wanted to get some opinions on my future lift. I have a 07 2wd CC. I have spoke to Greg as well as some other shops and everyone seems to have some type of opinion one way or the other. My goal it to use the best products to get a nice ride and height. (around 8")

In a nutshell, the cons to the CST bracket lift is that it uses stock front shocks and springs which arent the best and some cutting and welding is necessary. Also, utilizes only blocks in the back rather than Deaver mini's etc.

Going with the CST 4" spindle and SAW coilovers up front I'm hearing the argument that you would be "stacking" the front with too many things and can cause less control, alignment problems, geometry problems with stock components, stuff like that. Now im not too sure I buy this argument but I guess it could be a logical argument. With this setup I would also have the benefit of running SAW's in back as well as utilizing the deaver mini's and a much smaller block

So what Im asking of you guys is to tell me if you've heard any of these arguments or are they just crap. And if you are running any of these similar setups what are your opinions on them. Thanks in advance for all your feedback

hooligan · 08-06-2007, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepst

Hey everyone, wanted to get some opinions on my future lift. I have a 07 2wd CC. I have spoke to Greg as well as some other shops and everyone seems to have some type of opinion one way or the other. My goal it to use the best products to get a nice ride and height. (around 8")

In a nutshell, the cons to the CST bracket lift is that it uses stock front shocks and springs which arent the best and some cutting and welding is necessary. Also, utilizes only blocks in the back rather than Deaver mini's etc.

Going with the CST 4" spindle and SAW coilovers up front I'm hearing the argument that you would be "stacking" the front with too many things and can cause less control, alignment problems, geometry problems with stock components, stuff like that. Now im not too sure I buy this argument but I guess it could be a logical argument. With this setup I would also have the benefit of running SAW's in back as well as utilizing the deaver mini's and a much smaller block

So what Im asking of you guys is to tell me if you've heard any of these arguments or are they just crap. And if you are running any of these similar setups what are your opinions on them. Thanks in advance for all your feedback

in a nutshell, where do you live? i'll give you a ride in mine thru Johnson Valley and you'll see why a CST spindle and SAWs are the sh!t. paired with a 2.5" deaver pack and 2.0 resi Radflos in the rear, the ride is phenomenal!!! and don't forget to take your swaybar off too!

**loufish** · 08-07-2007, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Going with the CST 4" spindle and SAW coilovers up front I'm hearing the argument that you would be "stacking" the front with too many things and can cause less control, alignment problems, geometry problems with stock components, stuff like that. Now im not too sure I buy this argument but I guess it could be a logical argument. With this setup I would also have the benefit of running SAW's in back as well as utilizing the deaver mini's and a much smaller block

It may sound like "stacking" these components might be an issue but this is a much proven combo and you would be MILES ahead with this combo over ANY bracket lift!
I have PRG's Performance Kit w/SAW's. I just bought a set of the CST lift spindles. I don't think I've ever heard of the spindles not holding up and plenty of guys have beat the heck out of their trucks...And yes the Performance kit rides awesome!

SDTitan1 · 08-07-2007, 08:08 AM

first thing that comes to mind just from reading the title is: go with spindle/coilover ... it gives you what is needed for clearance and performance without unnecessary components (bracket, etc), less stuff that can loosen, break, squeek, etc

BUT if your goal is to go up 8", bracket lift may be the way to, especially CST's kit, it's very reliable........my opinion.

Pepst · 08-07-2007, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooligan

in a nutshell, where do you live? i'll give you a ride in mine thru Johnson Valley and you'll see why a CST spindle and SAWs are the sh!t. paired with a 2.5" deaver pack and 2.0 resi Radflos in the rear, the ride is phenomenal!!! and don't forget to take your swaybar off too!

Thanks for the reply. Im in Anaheim and it sounds like you have the setup i was looking at. The only difference is that I was going to use the SAW's in back as well. Can you explain the removal of the swaybar?? Also, how much of a lift do you think you got w/that setup?

jbaltimore · 08-07-2007, 08:30 AM

Best term for a bracket lift would be a "pig on stilts"

hooligan · 08-07-2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepst

Thanks for the reply. Im in Anaheim and it sounds like you have the setup i was looking at. The only difference is that I was going to use the SAW's in back as well. Can you explain the removal of the swaybar?? Also, how much of a lift do you think you got w/that setup?

- anaheim? well you'll need to make it to our next offroad meet up north near Gorman... i believe Yellowmantis is goiing to be heading that one up or starting one.

The only difference is that I was going to use the SAW's in back as well.- yes, you can use the SAWs in the rear, no reason why you couldn't and shouldn't and if the SAWs were available at the time i got my Radflos i probably would have gone with the SAWs but the Radflos perform like champs and they're reservoired so they should last a long time without overhaul.

Can you explain the removal of the swaybar??
- First, aftermarket coilovers are needed for this to work... With the factory installed sway bar on, body roll and sidewind-induced sway is reduced greatly, which adds stability to the chassis. In some cases, a swaybar can even produce awe-inspiring handling on curvy roads. But hold on, we're still talking about a truck here! Off the road, sway bars can be a hindrance, limiting wheel travel or flex, causing tires to wind up in the air, not on the ground. So, what you wind up with is a compromise; Leave the bars on for street use or remove them for the trail? best thing PRG told me is that you can almost have the best of both worlds! with aftermarket coilovers, i.e. Donahoes, SAWs, Fox, etc... the spring used is heavier, with a higher spring rate which in a way compensates for the removal of the sway bar. i will say, you lose a bit of that stiffness the swaybar provides BUT, it's so minimal, only a tiny bit of lean is noticeable. HOWEVER, the performance offroad is world's better! front articulation is greatly improved!

Also, how much of a lift do you think you got w/that setup?
great thing about this setup is its height adjustable! i've had mine cranked to a tad over 8"s of lift and i got the disco look out of my system. now i'm cranked down to 6" of lift with a much more plush setup ready to tear thru the desert! i could crank it down to 4.5" of lift all the way up to just over 8" of lift and anything in between!

SDTitan1 · 08-08-2007, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooligan

i've had mine cranked to a tad over 8"s of lift and i got the disco look out of my system

whew! glad that phase is over!!

good post though!

Pepst · 08-08-2007, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooligan

- Can you explain the removal of the swaybar??
- First, aftermarket coilovers are needed for this to work... With the factory installed sway bar on, body roll and sidewind-induced sway is reduced greatly, which adds stability to the chassis. In some cases, a swaybar can even produce awe-inspiring handling on curvy roads. But hold on, we're still talking about a truck here! Off the road, sway bars can be a hindrance, limiting wheel travel or flex, causing tires to wind up in the air, not on the ground. So, what you wind up with is a compromise; Leave the bars on for street use or remove them for the trail? best thing PRG told me is that you can almost have the best of both worlds! with aftermarket coilovers, i.e. Donahoes, SAWs, Fox, etc... the spring used is heavier, with a higher spring rate which in a way compensates for the removal of the sway bar. i will say, you lose a bit of that stiffness the swaybar provides BUT, it's so minimal, only a tiny bit of lean is noticeable. HOWEVER, the performance offroad is world's better! front articulation is greatly improved!

So after reading this, I think it sounds like it would be better for me to leave it on for the time being as I'm mostly on the streets and also because I use the truck to tow. Great info though..Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooligan

-Also, how much of a lift do you think you got w/that setup?
great thing about this setup is its height adjustable! i've had mine cranked to a tad over 8"s of lift and i got the disco look out of my system. now i'm cranked down to 6" of lift with a much more plush setup ready to tear thru the desert! i could crank it down to 4.5" of lift all the way up to just over 8" of lift and anything in between!

LOL...this is hilarious because I guess I'm still into the disco look right now. But can you blame me, I just got the truck and have always had lowered cars so its only fitting that I go the opposite direction. Just give me some time guys

Pepst · 08-10-2007, 12:01 PM

So i spoke w/Greg yesterday and he sure settled my mind on any concerns that i had..I cant say that i was too convinced on some of the possible issues anyways but now they're a thing of the past. Should be all lifted in about 2 weeks if all my parts come in as planned

dragonhead08 · 08-10-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hooligan

- anaheim? well you'll need to make it to our next offroad meet up north near Gorman... i believe Yellowmantis is goiing to be heading that one up or starting one.

The only difference is that I was going to use the SAW's in back as well.- yes, you can use the SAWs in the rear, no reason why you couldn't and shouldn't and if the SAWs were available at the time i got my Radflos i probably would have gone with the SAWs but the Radflos perform like champs and they're reservoired so they should last a long time without overhaul.

Can you explain the removal of the swaybar??
- First, aftermarket coilovers are needed for this to work... With the factory installed sway bar on, body roll and sidewind-induced sway is reduced greatly, which adds stability to the chassis. In some cases, a swaybar can even produce awe-inspiring handling on curvy roads. But hold on, we're still talking about a truck here! Off the road, sway bars can be a hindrance, limiting wheel travel or flex, causing tires to wind up in the air, not on the ground. So, what you wind up with is a compromise; Leave the bars on for street use or remove them for the trail? best thing PRG told me is that you can almost have the best of both worlds! with aftermarket coilovers, i.e. Donahoes, SAWs, Fox, etc... the spring used is heavier, with a higher spring rate which in a way compensates for the removal of the sway bar. i will say, you lose a bit of that stiffness the swaybar provides BUT, it's so minimal, only a tiny bit of lean is noticeable. HOWEVER, the performance offroad is world's better! front articulation is greatly improved!

Also, how much of a lift do you think you got w/that setup?
great thing about this setup is its height adjustable! i've had mine cranked to a tad over 8"s of lift and i got the disco look out of my system. now i'm cranked down to 6" of lift with a much more plush setup ready to tear thru the desert! i could crank it down to 4.5" of lift all the way up to just over 8" of lift and anything in between!

Hey Hooli,

Is there any need for concern since you didnt drop the subframe?
It makes me wonder why so many lift companies have dropped subframes when Greg offers a kit that dosnt require doing that?
I have zero experience with lifted trucks and am asking since Greg offers a 4" lift for 4wd that definitely have my interest.

tazstitan · 08-10-2007, 03:09 PM

I would have to Agree with hooligan & SDtitan1...
PRG is the way to go.....
Many of us have the CST spindle lift with different combos for Coilovers,
Much better clearance.
Way better Bang for your $$$$$ than Bracket Lift..

hooligan · 08-10-2007, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonhead08

Hey Hooli,

Is there any need for concern since you didnt drop the subframe?
It makes me wonder why so many lift companies have dropped subframes when Greg offers a kit that dosnt require doing that?
I have zero experience with lifted trucks and am asking since Greg offers a 4" lift for 4wd that definitely have my interest.

Is there any need for concern since you didnt drop the subframe? It makes me wonder why so many lift companies have dropped subframes when Greg offers a kit that dosnt require doing that?
no need for concern since i'm 2wd i have no CV angle to be concerned about and a spindle kit is MUCH stronger than a bracket lift. being that you are 4wd your axle/cv joint angle is the biggest concern. angle to close to max can cause premature CV joint damage and can cause CV boots to prematurely tear, lose grease and ultimately destroy the joint. which is where bracket lifts with subframes come into play, dropping the front differential and keeping the angle of the front axle/CV joint close, if not the same, to stock.

with greg's kit, it allows for maximum lift without having to use a subframe yet stay well within' nissan tolerances for CV joint/front axle angle. he's done the research and design so it's not like he's just slapped some parts together and say it works. thorough testing allowed greg to calculate exactly how much could be safely yielded without effecting durability or longevity of the front suspension components.

i highly recommend going with greg's 4" lift. there is always going to be some sort of issue going with a lift kit that uses a drop down subframe or at least some issues like the upper a-arm hitting the coil bucket, etc. unfortunately since you're 4wd you can't use the 4" spindle but greg's 4" 4wd kit is a hands down performer. now if you weren't financially restrained and if i recall you do make good money, hehe... you could really improve your truck's offroad performance by getting greg's Mid-Travel kit for both 2wd and 4wds.

Warp09 · 08-11-2007, 01:18 AM

Anyone know where I can get more info or see what products he offers? PRGProducts.com isn't updated, and he told me himself.

Do you know if he offers a 6" lift for 4WD, similar to the PC Stage 1?

hooligan · 08-11-2007, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warp09

Anyone know where I can get more info or see what products he offers? PRGProducts.com isn't updated, and he told me himself.

Do you know if he offers a 6" lift for 4WD, similar to the PC Stage 1?

no! he does not build bracket lifts. and as a 4wd'r you're relagated to a max of 4" of lift if you opt for non-bracket .