Can someone make this a sticky perhaps. It seems to come up rather often!
Taken completely from PRG's post over on CT:
'Since this seems to be the latest concern amoungst Titan owners, I'll address it here. Shown are 3 pics of three different bolts. The bolt on the left is a Procomp replacement bolt (with more adjustment than stock), the middle is a stock alignment cam bolt, the last is an '06 bolt. The bolts sit in a slotted hole and can move inward and outward to push the lower a-arm. You can use regular 9/16 bolts and get the same result, but you cannot use the markers that are on the cams and holding the postition can be difficult while tightening. Nissan quite using the alignment bolts after '05 in all trucks (Frontier, Pathfinder, Xterra, Titan, Armada) as the factory alignment (caster and camber) will be within spec in stock form. You can still adjust the toe on any of these vehicles. We build our leveling kits to a modest height with which you should NOT need the alignment cams, but some trucks may (very rarely) need them. Most leveling kits out there just want max height without regard to any other variable. Your dealer will replace the bolts with the alignment cams on a a stock truck, but with a leveling kit (or any lift for that matter) they will charge you. Hope this clears things up just a bit. If you've bought one of our kits, you should not need the cams. If you have one of OUR kits and are having trouble aligning your vehicle, please call me. Also, be sure not to mistake a toe adjustment (which IS needed) for a camber/caster adjustment.'
Maybe I should explain what an alignment consists of. There are three adjustments to the front of your titan, caster, camber, and toe. The first two you adjust by rotating the lower a-arm bolts (alignment cams) the toe you adjust using by lengthening or shortening the tie rod. Caster is the amount of angle between the upper and lowerball joints, you will not be able to change this much and you cant see if its off, so we wont even worry about it here. Camber is the difference that the top of the tire sticks-out or in, relative to the bottom. Remember the old VW bugs, the rear always had camber issues if you raised or lowered them. If you raise your titan too much as with many leveling kits, the top of the tire will be farther out than the bottom (looking from the front of the truck) and you will need to adjust the lower a-arm bolts to push the bottom of the tire outward so it is closer to verticle. Keep in mind this adjustment is usually blamed for bad tire wear, but the culprit is usually improper toe. Look at a brand-new BMW, the rear tires have a ton of neg camber (top in more than the bottom) and this is from the factory and supposed to be this way. Toe adjustment is most critical, this is one makes the tires parrallel going forward. If they are off, tire wear is imminent, usually on the outside or inside edge. If you adjust either the caster or camber, your toe will be off excessivly and need to be corrected again. Anytime you raise or lower a stock titan, the toe will need to be adjusted thanks to Nissan giving us rather piss-poor steering geometry (called bump-steer). Toe can easily be set/checked with a simple tape measure. Also, if the steering wheel is slightly turned and you are going straight, that is NOT an alignment issue. It is a steering wheel adjsutment that is done using the tierods, but the alignment can be perfect and the sterring wheel off to one side.
I'll add this information:
MOOG Part # K80276 {Cam Bolt Kit}
Frt Susp; Lower Strut Mount; 2WD; adjustment range from -2 to +2 Deg.
Frt Susp; Lower Strut Mount; 4WD; adjustment range from -2 to +2 Deg.
Price was about $30
SPICER Part # 6111192
{Includes 2 bolts, 4 cam washers & 2 lock nuts}
Front Suspension; Plus or Minus 2 Degree Camber / Caster
So I have searched and found no straight answer to this ?......If I lift my truck with more than a leveling kit on a 2006 then I need the camber bolts?
So I have searched and found no straight answer to this ?......If I lift my truck with more than a leveling kit on a 2006 then I need the camber bolts?
YES, without a doubt.
There is an ever so slight chance that with just a leveling kit, you might also need them:
From PRG: "We build our leveling kits to a modest height with which you should NOT need the alignment cams, but some trucks may (very rarely) need them."
I installed the 2 1/2 inch kit on an 08 2wd. The toe was corrected after alignment, and the camber was just inside of specs. However the front tires are defenitely angled in at the bottom with out a doubt. I am going to get the cam bolts and try to have it realigned. Do you think this would cause the truck to sway back and forth on the road? I guess trying to explain it , I have to constantly move the steering wheel back and forth to keep the truck straight.
I put the 2.5" NCD kit on mine, which i believe is almost identical to the PRG. The first place I went wanted to charge me a ridiculous amount for the bolts and alignment, so I tried somewhere else to see if they were trying to rip me. Second place did the alignment without the bolts, even gave me a printout of before and after. It drives fine, but looks like the tires are still tucked a little. Dont know if they really are or if it's just my imagination...
54warrior, maybe you can answer this for me. I have an 08 Titan with the 6 in. coil over Pro comp lift. I was advised at the first service to have the suspension checked and realigned. I have always had since I purchase it the tires would rub on the rear wheel wells on hard turns, but now after the alignment, the right front tire doesn't rub the rear, but rubs the front bumper on left turns, has a slight drift to the left and pulls to the left when I apply the brakes. Looking at the tire, it looks like it was moved forward within the wheel well. I had them recheck the alignment and they say everything is good. I know something is wrong, any ideas?
54warrior, maybe you can answer this for me. I have an 08 Titan with the 6 in. coil over Pro comp lift. I was advised at the first service to have the suspension checked and realigned. I have always had since I purchase it the tires would rub on the rear wheel wells on hard turns, but now after the alignment, the right front tire doesn't rub the rear, but rubs the front bumper on left turns, has a slight drift to the left and pulls to the left when I apply the brakes. Looking at the tire, it looks like it was moved forward within the wheel well. I had them recheck the alignment and they say everything is good. I know something is wrong, any ideas?
Thanks!
Let me make sure I understand correctly, the front wheels are rubbing on the rear portion of the fender well, in front of the driver/pass. doors. That issue is commonly solved with the "Pinch Weld Mod"
But you're saying that since you've had it aligned, it no longer rubs on the rear part, it's rubbing on the front bumper part, correct? Only solution to that would be to trim off part of the front bumper. I haven't heard of too many owners that have had that problem though. Normally you'll have problems at the pinch weld first.
I don't really understand how they could have moved the tire forward in the wheel well by just doing an alignment.
Part of the ProComp lift is a 1/4" thick spacer that us used to space the factory swaybar forward that amount because the ProComp spindle was designed with 1/4" forward placement of the wheel bearing, so in turn, the swaybar had to be moved forward also. Even if they did/didn't add/remove that spacer, it's not gonna change the location of your wheel.
2006 CC 4x4 here with a 2" mini lift from PRG. Have the alignment bolts, but I haven't put them in yet. It is very noticable looking at it. The rt. front is at the minimum limit and the lt. front isn't as bad. Still annoying, just haven't had time to correct it. I think it may contribute to a little road walking as well.
__________________ 2006 Radiant Silver CC SE 4X4, PRG Mini-Lift, Black Diamondplate UWS Low Profile Toolbox, Armada Air Dam
I have the same issue as IAMFIREMAN. I put the pro comp lift on 4 weeks ago with 35" tires. The left tire rubs the front fender and the right tire does not. With the tires pointed straight, the left tires has about 2 inches clearance from the front fender and the right tires has 3+ inches. There is a big difference in the location of the wheels in the wheel well. I have also had the front end aligned 3 times and it is getting it's 4th try today. The truck continues to pull to the right and the last adjustment they made must have had it to the limit because it popped and cracked when I left the tire place. It sounded like the front end was going to fall off.
I have a question about the lower a arm. When it is mounted to the new cross members and the cam bolts tightened to spec, there is a gap between the cross member and a arm. Not sure if that makes sense, but the gap doesn't go away when tightening the bolts. Is this normal? It seems like when I take off it shifts because I get some kind of noise when going straight and taking off.
Not sure about it all but right now I am not to excited about this lift. I have a new truck with 3000 miles and it pops, cracks, pulls to the right and rubs.
I have the same issue as IAMFIREMAN. I put the pro comp lift on 4 weeks ago with 35" tires. The left tire rubs the front fender and the right tire does not. With the tires pointed straight, the left tires has about 2 inches clearance from the front fender and the right tires has 3+ inches. There is a big difference in the location of the wheels in the wheel well. I have also had the front end aligned 3 times and it is getting it's 4th try today. The truck continues to pull to the right and the last adjustment they made must have had it to the limit because it popped and cracked when I left the tire place. It sounded like the front end was going to fall off.
I have a question about the lower a arm. When it is mounted to the new cross members and the cam bolts tightened to spec, there is a gap between the cross member and a arm. Not sure if that makes sense, but the gap doesn't go away when tightening the bolts. Is this normal? It seems like when I take off it shifts because I get some kind of noise when going straight and taking off.
Not sure about it all but right now I am not to excited about this lift. I have a new truck with 3000 miles and it pops, cracks, pulls to the right and rubs.
Stage 1 or Stage 2 PC Lift??
Well, obviously, the alignment is off and it sounds like it's severely off. Do you trust your alignment shop? Has the same shop done the alignment every time?? Maybe they don't have a clue what they're doing since it's a lifted truck?? Was the alignment correct before you installed the lift kit?
What has me puzzled is how you guys seem to have the difference in wheel position in the wheel well from side to side. Unless something's bent, it's virtually impossible too have that much of a difference, you're claiming 1" or more of difference, sure you're not exaggerating the amount??
Yes, Nissan, for some reason designed the lower control arms to be able to slide back/forth within the mounts. That is likely where your creaking/cracking is coming from. PRG Products can hook you up with some Delrin spacers that you can install in there to take up the slop and center the arm within the mounts. He used Delrin so it would sorta 'cushion' it some, but you could probably just slap some washers in there of appropriate thickness. I did somewhat of an experiment: drove my truck around awile, came back to my apartment and pulled straight in to the parking space which is bound by a 10" high curb. As soon as I 'bounced' off the curb, it made the creaking sound, which I believe was the arm sliding in the mount, although it wasn't really visible that it had moved???
Other source of the creaking/cracking would be the stock coilovers OR, if you have the wheels cranked hard one way or another, the spindle's steering stops will rub on the LCA.
Mine has creaked/cracked since day one as well, haven't had any problems as a result though. I have new replacement longer coilvers to put on, but haven't had a chance yet. I hope this solves my issues.
Steering stop shown below, you can grind circled area off.
So, I got the truck back today after the 4th alignment in a month. The last time it was aligned it popped and cracked really bad for a few miles and then on and off for a couple of days before I got it back to them. They told me when I brought it back that the alignment was way off. The popping was the cam bolts moving.
What they told me was the floating in the a arms was causing it to move it out of alignment. I know when the lift was put on that they were tightened up as tight as we could get them and you could see where the black paint on the cross members was scrapped off where they turned. So to fix this they put washers in. On the 30 minute ride home, I had no more popping, the tires where quieter, the steering was great and no pulling to the right. Once I got home, i checked the distance between the tires and the front bumper and now they are the same on each side. (And no, i was not over exaggerating about the inch difference.) The wheels look centered better in the wheel well and the left side that rubbed before is now further back and doesn't rub.
It appears the noise and alignment issues where coming from the floating a arms. So far so good. It is a night and day difference with the washers.
54warrior, maybe you can answer this for me. I have an 08 Titan with the 6 in. coil over Pro comp lift. I was advised at the first service to have the suspension checked and realigned. I have always had since I purchase it the tires would rub on the rear wheel wells on hard turns, but now after the alignment, the right front tire doesn't rub the rear, but rubs the front bumper on left turns, has a slight drift to the left and pulls to the left when I apply the brakes. Looking at the tire, it looks like it was moved forward within the wheel well. I had them recheck the alignment and they say everything is good. I know something is wrong, any ideas?
Thanks!
If they removed caster on the R/F wheel, that might bring the wheel slightly forward but that would make the truck pull / drift to the right unless the caster was adjusted with the lower arm.(not sure of the kit you have) That would bring the tire slightly forward when adding caster. I always add about 1.5 to 2 degrees more positive caster on the right side to make up for the crown of the road. If they have a large difference in side to side caster,( 3 or 4 degrees) this will cause your pull.
If they removed caster on the R/F wheel, that might bring the wheel slightly forward but that would make the truck pull / drift to the right unless the caster was adjusted with the lower arm.(not sure of the kit you have) That would bring the tire slightly forward when adding caster. I always add about 1.5 to 2 degrees more positive caster on the right side to make up for the crown of the road. If they have a large difference in side to side caster,( 3 or 4 degrees) this will cause your pull.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no caster adjustment on the Titan. Only toe/camber. Caster is the relationship between the top and bottom ball joint, and there really is no way (that I'm aware of) to adjust that. Certainly with the 'built-in' slop that Nissan made on the lower control arms, there will be slight caster change if/when the lower arms were to move fore/aft. In order to change caster, the location of the upper or lower ball joint would have to change.
More caster = better high speed handling
Less caster = better slow speed handling (twitchy at high speeds)
Last edited by 54warrior : 01-30-2008 at 12:43 PM.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no caster adjustment on the Titan. Only toe/camber. Caster is the relationship between the top and bottom ball joint, and there really is no way (that I'm aware of) to adjust that. Certainly with the 'built-in' slop that Nissan made on the lower control arms, there will be slight caster change if/when the lower arms were to move fore/aft. In order to change caster, the location of the upper or lower ball joint would have to change.
More caster = better high speed handling
Less caster = better slow speed handling (twitchy at high speeds)
More caster, heavier steering, better "return to center feel" after turning, better tracking. I was thinking there was an adjustment with the lift kit that was installed?? Tell ya the truth, I only had to adjust the toe after I installed my leveling kit.
On many vehicles, you can adjust the upper or lower control arm (pivot) front to rear via cam bolts, etc. Again, I've never aligned my Titan (let alone installed a lift kit) so I'm not sure whats there. On my GM there are cam bolts that let you move the front of the upper arm different from the rear of the upper control arm, in effect changing the ball joint center line. Kinda like the "old" RWD cars with shims. Same theory. Move the front of the arm outward & the rear of the arm inward (via shims or cam bolts) evenly increasing caster while not changing camber. Moving unevenly will cause camber to change also.
More caster, heavier steering, better "return to center feel" after turning, better tracking. I was thinking there was an adjustment with the lift kit that was installed?? Tell ya the truth, I only had to adjust the toe after I installed my leveling kit.
On many vehicles, you can adjust the upper or lower control arm (pivot) front to rear via cam bolts, etc. Again, I've never aligned my Titan (let alone installed a lift kit) so I'm not sure whats there. On my GM there are cam bolts that let you move the front of the upper arm different from the rear of the upper control arm, in effect changing the ball joint center line. Kinda like the "old" RWD cars with shims. Same theory. Move the front of the arm outward & the rear of the arm inward (via shims or cam bolts) evenly increasing caster while not changing camber. Moving unevenly will cause camber to change also.
Technical discussion about the suspension components.
01-16-2008, 04:23 AM
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