Yes, you CAN tow a fifth-wheel.

MagLeto · 09-29-2005, 07:23 PM

I haven't seen this information posted here before. Previous postings stated that the Titan Crew Cab could not realistically tow a fifth-wheel. I've also been told very recently by RV dealers that my truck could not used to tow a fifth wheel.

It seems that there are some options available if you are dead-set on a Titan CC/fifth-wheel combo, however, they may not be worth it in the long run.

The most promising choice seems to be the 12K Superglide by Pullrite.

This is a sophisticated fifth-wheel hitch mount that can allow the trailer to slide back away from the cab when turning. There are "gotchas", however. According to Pullrite, in order to use this with a Titan Crew cab, the front of the trailer cannot be more than 90" wide and the king pin must protrude at least 5" in front of the leading edge of the trailer. It's possible that a more rounded front cap of the fifth-wheel may allow it to be slightly wider. The other prohibitive factor is the cost of the hitch itself... over $3,000 MSRP!

When I asked Pullrite for examples of a unit that meets the required dimensions, they cited the Forest River Rockwood. I don't have a high opinion of the Forest River line; perhaps there are better options out there.

One dealer suggested that our Titan CrewCabs may be able to pull a type of fifth-wheel called a (ironically enough) "Titanium" by Glendale. I've seen articles on some RV sites which seem to confirm that the Titanium can be pulled by short-bed half-tons without the use of a sliding hitch. They have an unusual front end design that allows the leading edge of the trailer to swivel over the cab instead of bashing into it.

More info on these can be found at the Glendale RV Titanium site.

What isn't clear to me yet, though, is whether or not these claims would only apply to the extended-cab Titan and that perhaps the crew cab would still need some kind of slider hitch with this one.

Anyway, I decided I didn't have time to continue pursuing a fifth-wheel option and ended up buying a travel trailer instead. I hope someone else will look into this further and let us know what they find out. My aim here is just to share that the question of whether or not a Titan CC can work with a fifth-wheel is not an unequivocable "NO", even if perhaps it is a debatable "not worth the trouble."

jjconroy · 09-29-2005, 08:49 PM

I checked out that fifth wheel and Glendale offers some very nice models. The Titian will not be able to tow these models though as the pin weight is too much. I do agree that the Titian can tow a fifth wheel though, as there are many light weight models on the market. I'll wait a few years until Nissan comes out with their 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. I too tow a travel trailer, a 2003 Nash 19B (5,200lbs max.)

ptgarcia · 09-29-2005, 08:49 PM

Right on Chuck, thanks for the info.

MagLeto · 09-29-2005, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjconroy

I checked out that fifth wheel and Glendale offers some very nice models. The Titian will not be able to tow these models though as the pin weight is too much. I do agree that the Titian can tow a fifth wheel though, as there are many light weight models on the market. I'll wait a few years until Nissan comes out with their 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. I too tow a travel trailer, a 2003 Nash 19B (5,200lbs max.)

I wish I could have gotten a look at a Nash. I did a lot of consumer research (reading hundreds of owner reports) and the brands that got the best ratio of good owner experiences versus bad were the Nash, Starcraft, K-Z, Crossroads and Jayco models. (I was surprised that Pilgrim and Holiday Rambler were not as well liked by their owners as they have a higher trim level and what seems to be superior materials.)

Unfortunately, I couldn't get close enough to a Nash (Northwood) dealer to drive to in less than a half-day. Pickings are slim for travel trailers these days since FEMA ordered so many for the hurricane evacuees. I almost bought a K-Z Frontier, but ended up with a Jay Flight 29 footer (about 4,800lbs dry.)

I've never towed such a large rig before, so wish me luck.

ptgarcia · 09-29-2005, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagLeto

I wish I could have gotten a look at a Nash. I did a lot of consumer research (reading hundreds of owner reports) and the brands that got the best ratio of good owner experiences versus bad were the Nash, Starcraft, K-Z, Crossroads and Jayco models. (I was surprised that Pilgrim and Holiday Rambler were not as well liked by their owners as they have a higher trim level and what seems to be superior materials.)

Unfortunately, I couldn't get close enough to a Nash (Northwood) dealer to drive to in less than a half-day. Pickings are slim for travel trailers these days since FEMA ordered so many for the hurricane evacuees. I almost bought a K-Z Frontier, but ended up with a Jay Flight 29 footer (about 4,800lbs dry.)

I've never towed such a large rig before, so wish me luck.

Piece of cake, MagLeto. My Jazz is the first travel trailer I have pulled, and even though its 30' bumper to coupler and 8000lbs ready to go its a pretty easy tow.

Enjoy your new trailer!

QWIKWHIP · 09-30-2005, 06:34 AM

Oh yeah, it can be done. Let's not forget about this guy.

http://www.titantalk.com/forums/show...20&postcount=5

*95wolverine* · 09-30-2005, 08:02 AM

Sounds to me like there might be a market for aftermarket tongues for the fifth-wheels. If you increase the reach (horizontal distance from mounting point on the trailor to the pin) you do two things.. 1st, you get the front end of the trailor further back and allow the cab of the truck to clear it. 2nd, the further from the trailor wheels you get with the pin, the lighter the pin weight for the truck.

Being a mechanical engineer, but not a 5th wheel nut, are the tongues typically welded to the frame (likely) or bolted? Either way, a little engineering and knowhow goes a long way.

I suppose this would be an option for the guy that loves his current fifth-wheel and wants a CC Titan, or a guy that currently has a CC Titan and wants a specific fifth-wheel.

QWIKWHIP · 09-30-2005, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95wolverine

2nd, the further from the trailor wheels you get with the pin, the lighter the pin weight for the truck.

I'm not so sure that's true? Or maybe I'm just unclear? Can you explain that a little better?

TitanBillB · 09-30-2005, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QWIKWHIP

Oh yeah, it can be done. Let's not forget about this guy.

http://www.titantalk.com/forums/show...20&postcount=5

That is a King Cab. I've seen 4 KC Titans w/ 5th wheels since the KC bed is longer that the CC. I also tow a TT (Captive 28') and love the ride versus my 02 F-150.

rtapia · 09-30-2005, 10:18 AM

Yes, I CAN jump off a building, but that doesn't make it wise to do so.

*95wolverine* · 09-30-2005, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QWIKWHIP

I'm not so sure that's true? Or maybe I'm just unclear? Can you explain that a little better?

It all has to do with leverage. If you think about a teeter totter, the pivot is in the middle. Well, if you have a 200lb sand bag on one end, and a 100 kid on the other, the little boy's feet definatley aren't going to be touching the ground. Now if you take that sand bag and place it half way between the pivot and the end of the teeter totter, the little boy and the sandbag have the same effective force against the pivot, thus being able to set the totter level and it will stay.

Now, if you take that sandbag and place it any closer to the pivot, the little boy's feet find the ground.

This applies to the fifth wheel in the same method. The axle of the trailor is the pivot and the tow pin is the end of the totter. Move the pin further away from the pivot and your truck needs to provide less verticle resitance to keep the trailor level.

This principle is done with 18wheeler trailors all the time. Except that they move the rear wheels instead of moving the pin.

Another way to look at is is when you use tools. When using a lug wrench to break the lug nuts loose, you don't grab close to the nut. You get out as far as you can on the handle of the wrench. The further out you go, the less force you have to apply. Leverage.

We could look at it in the actual math formulas, but then we end up talking about rotational torque. Same result. If you'd like to discuss that, I'd be happy to.

If I've over simplified it, I am sorry. I've learned over the years that if you oversimplify, more people get it and you don't have to go back and take it down another notch.

QWIKWHIP · 09-30-2005, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95wolverine

It all has to do with leverage. If you think about a teeter totter, the pivot is in the middle. Well, if you have a 200lb sand bag on one end, and a 100 kid on the other, the little boy's feet definatley aren't going to be touching the ground. Now if you take that sand bag and place it half way between the pivot and the end of the teeter totter, the little boy and the sandbag have the same effective force against the pivot, thus being able to set the totter level and it will stay.

Now, if you take that sandbag and place it any closer to the pivot, the little boy's feet find the ground.

This applies to the fifth wheel in the same method. The axle of the trailor is the pivot and the tow pin is the end of the totter. Move the pin further away from the pivot and your truck needs to provide less verticle resitance to keep the trailor level.

This principle is done with 18wheeler trailors all the time. Except that they move the rear wheels instead of moving the pin.

Another way to look at is is when you use tools. When using a lug wrench to break the lug nuts loose, you don't grab close to the nut. You get out as far as you can on the handle of the wrench. The further out you go, the less force you have to apply. Leverage.

We could look at it in the actual math formulas, but then we end up talking about rotational torque. Same result. If you'd like to discuss that, I'd be happy to.

If I've over simplified it, I am sorry. I've learned over the years that if you oversimplify, more people get it and you don't have to go back and take it down another notch.

OK, you defenitly didn't oversimplify it. I'm still kinda confused?? It would seem to me that without moving the axle, the weight on the pin would be the same. The pivot point is what would need to be moved to change the weight balance wouldn't it? Just like you mentioned with the tractor trailers. And the way I see it by extending the pin it will change to pivot point in the wrong direction? I understand what your saying about the leverage, but the weight would still be the same wouldn't it??? lol, it's defenitly too late on Friday for me to be thinking like this.

twizted · 09-30-2005, 02:42 PM

I believe by making the truck/pin point farther from the trailer axles it just makes it easier to keep everything level. The closer to the trailer axles you go - the harder your truck is jerked up and down when going over bumps, pits, inclines, hills, etc.

**HudsonValleyTitan** · 09-30-2005, 03:47 PM

I would be sure that 5th wheel hitch was well bolted or welded to the frame..and be done at least right over the rear wheels. As long as the hitch pin weight is within the bed weight capacity (somewhere near 1500 LBS) it'll work fine. Now.....go find a dealer that'll install one and sell you a 5th wheel for a CC......much harder to do.

*95wolverine* · 10-03-2005, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QWIKWHIP

OK, you defenitly didn't oversimplify it. I'm still kinda confused??

Have you ever used a crowbar to remove a nail in an old piece of oak?

let's pretend the bend in the crowbar is the axle of the trailer. The nail would be the a$$ end of the trailer. Where you place your hands would be the pin of the trailer. If you put your hands very close to the bend in the crowbar, you aren't likely going to remove that nail. If you get out towards the end of the crowbar, your odds go up significantly. Now, instead of moving your hands, lets move that pin on the trailer further away from the bend, errrrrr axle.

If you would like me to, I'll run some quick sketches with some numbers (just for fun numbers) to see just how much moving the pin 6 inches forward on the trailer would affect the tongue weight seen by the fifth-wheel hitch in the back of the pickup.

Keep in mind, this might take me a day or two.... I gotta freshen up on some skills I haven't used in a day or two. lol